Ref my thread on values voters. I found it revealing if not scientific.

Most of my web time these days is spent on the discussion boards of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, also known as CARM. I go there now because this board is REALLY slow...almost comatose.

I posted this on the evagelical board. It's protected so you won't be able to go there unless you follow strict registration procedures. This is so evanglicals may have a place to fellowship without interference from the many atheists who frequent the public boards on CARM (I like to mix it up there too! It's kinda fun.)

Here's the essay I posted. The PAS board I refer to stands for Politics And Society. If you'd like to hear their replies, or make comments on CARM please let me know. I'll hook you up.

The Wounded African American Church

For four years I regularly participated on the web discussion board of an African-American denomination - the African Methodist Episcopal church, better known as the AME.

I found their doctrine and personal belief to be similar to that of the evangelical community. There were a few minor differences in that they spoke of economic empowerment for the black community and assisting the poor more than typical evangelicals, but overall their theology was similar.

For a while I posted primarily spiritual subjects, and we got along great. Then as election season drew closer I began to ask questions regarding their voting for liberal candidates while holding a conservative theology. I'd expect a person with liberal theology to vote for a liberal candidate, and vice versa. After all politics flows from values, and a person gets values from church among other places.

I found their liberal politics and conservative theology to be a strange mix, and I challenged them on it. Very quickly the replies became hostile - in many cases extremely hostile. I was quickly called "racist" (even by those who voted Republican!), and eventually my salvation was questioned. Toward the end I was referred to as demonized and a servant of satan. Just the other day I asked their opionion of the "values voters", and their reaction to the fact their theological kin are voting contrary positions. Again more charges of racism by conservative Christians, discourses which dodged the question, or stony silence from normally active participants.

I also found a strange preoccupation with race matters in general. It was a regular subject on a small, slow paced board. Constrast that with CARM which is a large, active board with many diverse discussions going on at once...virtually none involving race. Race simply isn't on most people's radar scope anymore. Even on the volatile PAS board race isn't mentioned. It lines up political conservatives vs liberals, or believers vs non-believers.

Part of the answer may lie in self-preoccupation. A black man in my own largely white/hispanic church tells me black churches are very inward-focused, which is why he changed to mine.

This all points to a tremendous wounding in the African-American church. The sins of the past committed by the conservative white community caused such grievious wounds that many are incapable of voting their own values decades after the fact. Never mind the fact many of these sins were committed by non-Christians, or the fact apologies that have been issued from numerous evangelical denominations. Most are incapable of associating with conservative whites politically due to an emotional response.

As a result most African-American Christians align themselves with pro-abortion and pro-gay rights candidates knowing this is inconsistent with their own theology. They check their values at the voting booth door. They even speak about it among themselves. Several times on the AME and other African-American Christian boards they'd ask, "how can we vote this way believing as we do?" Numerous replies would follow which didn't address the question. They'd simply talk about the sins committed against them in the past by the white community.

This shows that theology isn't the only thing that affects behavior. Wounds do too. How can we penetrate this division, and draw them fully into the evangelical community?

-- Anonymous, January 22, 2005

Answers

You shall know them by their fruits:

"Most of my web time these days is spent on the discussion boards of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, also known as CARM. I go there now because this board is REALLY slow...almost comatose. "

AND THEN:

"I also found a strange preoccupation with race matters in general. It was a regular subject on a small, slow paced board. Constrast that with CARM which is a large, active board with many diverse discussions going on at once..."

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2005

What's the purpose of your post "The Eloquent RP"?

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2005

Eloquent RP:

"I also found a strange preoccupation with race matters in general."

That is the crux of the matter. Those who have not been the victim (or descendents of victims) of racism tend to discount (and, frequently, deny) the impact and even the existence of racism.

Do you know the history behind the founding of African Methodism, RP? If so, I won't belabor the point. If not, we'll explain it to you and I think that you may be greatly enlightened.

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2005

RP -

The AME Church is only "obsessed" with racial injustice/inequality, not race per se. Liberation Theology represents a cornerstone feature of the AMEC's preaching, pedagogy and missionary priorities. It is incorrect to characterize this MB as "comatose" since forum members do make contributions even if they are not made in high volumnes. Afterall, work and home obligations preclude many (present company included) from posting everyday. QED

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2005

I had no difficulty registering on the CARM board.

be blessed al paris

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2005

Let's look at what the poster wrote: Part of the answer may lie in self-preoccupation. A black man in my own largely white/hispanic church tells me black churches are very inward-focused, which is why he changed to mine.

This all points to a tremendous wounding in the African-American church.

What does self preoccupation mean? Is the poster referring to the whole of the "Black Chruch?" Is the poster saying that the Black church is preoccupied with racial injustice at the expense of everything else?

If that is what the poster implies, that is a statement that reflects challenged cognition on his part.

His challenged cognition is further displayed when he asserts that A (usually assumed to be singular) black man in his realm calls the "black church" inwardly focused.

How would he know? Has he been to all black churches? Is one person a significant sample size to make such a heinous charge?

Black churches which provide human services, education, and churches that promote economic empowerment are these churches inwardly focused because they don't align themselves with one issue such as abortion or anti gay rights

Another example of challenged cognition.

Finally, from this one black man the poster asserts that there is tremendous wounding in the black church because they don't line up with certain candidates whose positions on economics, civil rights and education they find abhorrent.

Come on, can't we say that this logic is extremely flawed?

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2005

Harold -

We've had our share of spirited disagreements (even though I was on the correct side :-)) but I agree unequivocally that RP's complaints and criticisms about the AMEC are illogical, ahistorical, narrow- minded and unedifying. I consider myself a thick-skinned person but RP's amatuer psychoanalysis of black Christianity has become, even for me, almost unbearable to read. Cogent responses have been offered to curious readers (like RP) over the last 2-3 years concerning who we are and what defines our "M.O.". Differences in Christendom have been around for several millenia. It is presumptuous for outsiders to imply that because the black church's theology embodies a social Gospel her witness about the redemptive work of Christ is somehow less-authentic. QED

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2005

It is absolutely amazing to me that someone who is not even A.M.E. can come on this board and disrupt it.Then have nerve to ask for an apology!

For almost 4 years RP has disrupted this board and that is not inuendo but fact! Some of us remember the racist letter he sent to Rev. John Fisher and Rev. Fisher allowed him to post on this board.

RP's agenda is to divide and keep things stirred up. No where in his posts is the spirit of Christ. I feel RP owes an apology to all of us for his assumptions about African americans and the black church.

To those on the board, scripture warns us of those who will destroy the church by having us argue among ourselves. Paul the apostle told us this would happen and for us to be aware.

Every few months we hear the same RP story, there is ALWAYS one black man that just happens to find RP and tells of the woes of the black church. RP pulls this black man out of his hat time and time again.

We are under spiritual attack by posters who hide behind a mask of christianity. Have discernment and let us not argue over the post of someone whose only intent is to cause confusion. He will soon disappear as he always does.

Let us pray for protection of the board and one another. And bro. Harold do not leave! You just said what a lot of us were thinking.

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2005

Can we keep this thread in one place?

But, as an example, consider these words: "RP's complaints and criticisms about the AMEC are illogical, ahistorical, narrow- minded and unedifying..".....This did not attack him; it attacked his opinions.

As to disrupting the board, we have two options. One is so simple, it hurts. IGNORE HIM. Not that I'm keeping score, but only 6 of you (out of 200 hundred readers) have said anything about him. Let's see....that's...ummmm....3%...If 3% of your congregation called for your ousting, would your Bishop do it?

The second is to move the board so "we" can decide who can and can't post, leaving the door wide open for accusations that we "aren't friendly and loving and acting in the spirit of love".....thus proving his "illogical, ahistorical, narrow-minded and unedifying" rants.

It's up to you........

-- Anonymous, January 27, 2005

I think it's best to ignore.

-- Anonymous, February 01, 2005