I recently read where Bishop Eddie Long led a tothe King Center of all places in his effort to preserve the definition of marriage. Wow, that is really awesome but is it right? Is it right to use the name or image of Dr. King in such a manner? How do we know what he would think about this issue? Wow now I wish we could a march going to help get some jobs, better education, housing and what not. Please Al, Bill or anyone remind me of how this impacts the message of the church. I am serious I just do not understand the drama.

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2004

Answers

I agree with Bishop Long. Most black folk also agree. Were Dr. King alive today, he too would be marching with Bishop Long. His daughter, Rev. Bernice King was marching hand in hand with him. One report said that 15,000 people marched with him and about 50 were marching against it.

We have distorted the message of Dr. King. The liberal press and the so-called black leaders have distorted the message of Dr. King to suit their own fancy.

Be Blessed

al paris

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2004

Rev. Paris:

I so disagree with you. Nothing in Rev. King's history show him as leading a march against the rights of anybody. While we may not approve of gay marriage this is just a smokescreen to keep Black people from noticing that their children are not being educated, they continue to earn lower wages and more blacks are incarcerated. It is mind boggling to me that we would exercise such energy over something as insipid as this.

Personally I think the whole thing is asinine and unholy. Maybe the UCC commercial is truth. Are we barring the door to people when we say to a whole group of persons we support your oppression?

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2004

Thank you Brother Gibson for stating that we need to get a march going on for jobs, better education, and housing. If Dr. M.L. King were alive, I imagine that most of his efforts would be directed towards getting the institution we call the Black church to apply biblical principles in a focused manner on our many social ills. I believe that seminarians call the application of biblical principles, Christian ethics.

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2004

Greetings

Jazzman, your answer is an indication of the rot that has set in. There is no such a thing as Christian Ethics. Ethics is the seeking of the highest principles based on the will of God for my life- style. As Christians therefore we believe that that which we have in the Bible is the best code to live by. Far too long have we as Christians taken a back seat when it comes to the expression of our faith, for fear of not being polically correct.

Clive

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

Hmm, the dichotomy of the christian militant. Do we have to be in prayer only for one or the other? That is to say either moral or social justice. If we divide to conquer, should that pit us against each other? Are those who are for moral justice, Republician and those for social, Democratics? Isn't there an arguement against legistrating morality with social affairs, why? Can we meet out social justice at the expense of moral spiritually, why? Are social and moral justice diametrically opposites? Which is the greater sin, not to love God (moral) with all our...or not to love our neighbors (social) as we love ourselves? Big sin, little sin? Is it more important to stop the sinner from sinning and imposing their sin upon our enviroment, the enviroment of the (dark) rulers of this world. If we can why not? Or is it more important to dispense justice and love our neighbors, those who are under our rule or within our spair of enfluence (as you must had to already note, i am a terrible speller). And let God deal the sinners? Yes, i am bias towards one or the other but should i take it as a spiritual attack if my brother or sister's bias is different from mine? Is that not the plan of the enemy, to create chaos, divisions and strife among the fellowship? Although i may have my bias, i am get very upset when someone, anyone who feels that they priority has a more moral authority than mines. Do you? Wouldn't that be like one Levite saying to another, "mine responsibility in the temple is greater than yours." Are we not all different parts (componets) of the same body?

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

Help me Rev. Pillay: How was this an expression of our faith? How does supporting an unnecessary constititional amendment an expression of faith! Lord save me from constitutional christians.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

Rev Jones' you just said something!

I was listening to NPR (aaaHHH) and a fellow (Liberal) said that one cannot be coservative and Christian. He was serious. How unlearned can one get. I would like to have said to him: Can one be ignorant of the bible and Christian.

Ge Glessed

pastor paris

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

God looks at the heart of the spiritual leader. Only God knows if Bishop Eddie Long and others are the Pharisee or tax collector mentioned in Luke 18. Verses 11 and 14 say "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, exortioners, unjust, adulters, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Jesus also taught against divorce. Unless a man divorces his wife for reasons of unchastity, he makes her commit adultery. Whomever marries a divorced woman then commits adultery.

The New Testament teaches that women should not be in the pulpit and that her head should always be covered. It also says that Christians should be a very plain people without adornments. Yet, we have more church hats, suits of every color for every organization, pins, etc., etc., etc....

In our churches on Sunday morning we have divorced preachers, elders and bishops which is strictly against bible teaching. In too many instances we have pastors with children without benefit of any marriage. Women are coming to the churches without head coverings and men are women are greatly adorned in suits, jewelry, etc. We have women pastors, elders and bishops. How would you feel if Bishop Eddie Long showed up at your church asking 'Why did you divorce your wife or husband?" "Why did you look at that woman or man that way?" "Preacher Rosie Applesauce why are you in the pulpit?" "Sister Margie Hummingbird why is your hair uncovered?" "Brother Charlie Fine before you purchased that sharp new blue suit for Lay Organization Day- did you pay your tithes?"

Sin is sin. Just ask God to keep your heart right. If God tells you to do something, then in all haste do as the master suggests. But be careful of what is in your heart because God knows and He will deal with each of us justly.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

Good points Mary. At one time or another, I've been guilty of almost all of those: Divorced, re-married, etc. So to that I would add: "His grace is sufficient for us all." That is the only way that I can make it in; by His Grace. Praise the Lord

pastor paris

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

In my humble opinion what we are seeing here is the new “spirit of antichrist.” This is akin to what Saint Paul warned of in his Letters to the Corinthians. The new Hip-hop, Feel-good, Mega-church concept often comes dangerously close to consorting with the enemy. This often occurs when we mix the church with politics. Thus, we cannot distinguish where one begins and the other ends. When both the church and the state claim to speak for God, more often than not we find that they both are wrong. The Devil is subtle, cunning and devising in his execution of it.

In both Proverbs 14 and 16, we find these words,"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” A New Commandment, Jesus said, “I give to you, that you love one another as I have loved you.”

Having once sung in the choir at Ebenezer Church under the direction of the late Mrs. Albert King, and having personally known Drs. Martin Luther King, father and son, I happen to also know that neither of them ever confused the two. What they took to the streets was social justice and politics, but they preached JESUS in the church. Thus, they never had a problem calling the White House, the State House or City Hall and saying to the President, the Governor or the Mayor, “YOU ARE WRONG.”

We need only look back as far as the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Amendments to the Constitution to see that the legislation of morals is an act I futility—producing the Age of Corruption, Gang Wars and Al Capone. We need to also be reminded of another Republican, Herbert Hoover, whose attempt at the legislation of morals by the government, led this nation completely and totally to an era of depression, dismay and despair.

No amount of legislation either of the Church or the State can change the lives and moral fiber of sinful men. JESUS alone is Savior and Lord. HE and HE alone redeemeth sinful men. To preach differently is closely akin to the “spirit of antichrist.”

Protestant Churches are now doing what they accused the Catholic Church of being wrong for doing five hundred years ago, with self- appointed bishops and pontiffs living largely on the church, while those who support them are often living one pay check away from bankruptcy and poverty.

What we need in the CHURCH is revival not just politics. We need true holiness, which John Wesley, Richard Allen and other preached, lived and taught, during the movement which later became the Methodist Church--to which All Methodists, including AMEs belong--not merely some assumed pentecostal or charismatic display of holiness.

In this Season of Advent, Christ once again is issuing His Church a Wake Up Call. If we are not careful to heed this call, even the very Elect will be deceived.

In the immortal words of J.S. Bach, “Sleepers Wake the night is flying; the watchmen on the heights are crying; Awake! Awake, Jerusalem! The Bridegroom comes. Awake! Awake!

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2004

Amen brother Matthew. My ealier point above (it must've been as clear as mud) is; as a so-called liberal, moderate or conservative (i am what our illustriust AG John Ashcroth calls road kill - a middle of the road moderate)christians we are diverse, and wonderfully and fearfully so. i am a so-called conservative in fiscal matters and a so-called liberal in social matters, therefore, am i confused? It is my understanding that most african americans are.

My bias toward social justice is one of ministering to those who are in need of social, as well as, spiriutal ministries (not necessarily in that order). Those who think that they need no physician will seek no physician. Those being the gays, the murderers, the liars...are blinded by the gods of this world and are lost, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Sure my heart desire is for all to turn to the knowledge of Christ. However, as Paul turned away from those Jews who rejected the Truth to proclaim the gospel to the gentiles, i turn to those who are seeking God in the midst of their social ills. I (grow) minister where i am planted. Now if someone with a familure spirit crosses my path - Acts 16:16-24 - i shall rebuke them.

My contentions with the so-called moral-majority is that they will go over seas to deal with social issues over there and state that the homeless here choses to be homeless and the hungry here lacks moral fortitude. Therefore, they should be on their on. The m-m allows social and racial bigots and such others to hide underneath their cloats of conservatism without a murmur, and yet they will challenge all african americans to speak out against the so- called "black leaders" (just ask the black conservative, Armstrong). They'll talk about loafty state rights, federalism and with tongue and cheek will say "i got mines and after ~300 years of you know what(it pains them to talk about those 300 years) and ~40 years of affirmitive action you should had gotten yours." Well needless to say, you can see where i am coming from.

Still if a brother or sister wants to occassionally lift up a cause that happens to be on the moral-majority's adgenda, more power to them. For i am reminded that i need not be concern about those who prophesied outside of the tabernacle, Numbers 11:23-30, and "he that is not against us is on our part" Mark 9:38-41.

It their drama not mines. Peace.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004

Again, please forgive the atrocious spelling (where is my spell check on this page?). Also, where i mentioned above "most african americans are"; that comment was inreference to most african americans are fiscal liberals and conservatives socially. Thank you. Please give me your thoughts in response to the above comments.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004

Although this is off the subject I should have also mentioned it in my post above. It is perhaps a fact that some might have forgotten and others might not have known. Mrs. Alberta William King, --the mother of Martin Luther King, Jr., --was a proud alumna of Morris Brown.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004

Bishop Long's wife is a Morris Brown alum as well.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004

Thanks Mary for that wonderful reminder of the many admonitions in the bible that all of us have been guilty of at some point in our lives. And yours is the short list!

We spend way too much time condemning than loving and the manifestation of that is a divided African-American community and church. We have so may issues, it's amazing that we choose to focus our collective energy on what really has no impact on our individual relationships with God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth.

When I am tempted to perch my lips in condemnation of another, I am reminded of this so precious dialogue that we AME's recite every Sunday (at least in my church):

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they came together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"

And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:34-40

Let's start doing more loving!

TA

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004

Now this thread is why I never give up on this Board. When the Spirit comes in, it really does so in a big way.

Siter Mary, you know you said something there. And Rev Jones, I heard you with the first response, but the next one knock it right out the park. My friend Bro Matthew, the humility in you is beautiful. Brother Gibson, good topic, and Rev Paris, I believe you love this Board and really try hard to keep the discussions moving.

If I left out anyone who participated on this thread, it was not my intentions.

Respectfully, Carmen

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2004