Last week Rev. at the First District Planning Meeting, Rev. Philip Cousin, Jr. preached a wonderful sermon titled "Strange Fire." It came out of Levicticus 10:1.

It is funny how the Lord prepares you ahead of time to meet a need when it occurs. In any event, a dear friend of mine who is well grounded in the Lord mentioned that she may attend a new church here in the Philadelphia area. The church is an independent church and the pastor is well known and respected. She discussed with me some information this pastor had passed to his congregation. She said he told them that Judas was not present at the Last Supper. I told her that he was and we went to the 14th chapter of Mark and the 26th chapter of Matthew where it clearly states that Judas was present. After the scriptures were read she said, "Well, Pastor______ said that Judas was not there, and he preaches the blood of Jesus." My response was, "but you have seen and read the bible where it clearly states the information given to you by this pastor was incorrect, and you still believe what he told you?" She then said "hmmm.......well, I've heard two other preachers say the same thing and they have PHDs." I told her that I do not have a PHD, but God made the Word plain enough for all to understand. I then asked her to pray over her intended new church and consider their teachings before she joins. If she is willing to believe what a pastor is telling her and it is in direct opposition of the bible, then she will truly be consumed by "strange fire."

It is so important to have educated pastors, well read in scripture who are able to divide the Word of Truth.

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

Answers

Mary opines -

"It is so important to have educated pastors, well read in scripture who are able to divide the Word of Truth."

Yes, but as your story shows, it is even better if we have a theologically educated laity. Lzainess and complacency are some of the greatest challenges we face. QED

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

You know Bill, you are correct. But it bothers me that a person who attended bible studies at least once a week for a number of years (over 15 years) and a daily bible reader can have someone tell them something that is contrary to scripture they just read in plain text. And they choose to believe the deceiver rather than what they see and know to be true from scripture. I cannot fathom how people reach that point.

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

Here's another one:

I was at another A.M.E. Church (nameless to protect those involved), and I was quizzing some of the children about basic Bible Trivia.

I asked a group of young boys how many sons Adam and Eve had, and to name them. I offered a "cash incentive" of $5 to the one who answered correctly.

They all answered "2", but they got the names wrong. When I told them they were wrong, they tried to guess other names, which of course were wrong.

An older man (who I found out later was a trustee) came over and asked what the commotion was about. I explained the question to him, and told him how the boys had gotten the question wrong and were now guessing.

He then scolded them for not paying attention in Sunday School, and not carefully listening....Bill, shhhhhh....the punchline is coming...

He then proceeded to tell them that Adam and Eve only had 2 sons.

I know; Adam and Eve had 3. One was murdered, but they still had 3 sons, as recorded in the Bible.

He didn't get the $5 either.

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

Yes, as recorded and named, 3. But as inferred from the rest ofthe scripture, and fromapocruphal notes, many more. "And he had sons and daughert..."

Tradition sugggests 60+. I don;t know yet where it comes from: it os [art pf ,upmnpomgm l;earning and investigation.

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

I believe the third son born after the death of Abel was Seth. But seeing Adam was the "Strom Thurmond" (in terms of libido not race relations) of his day Scripture records he was siring children well beyond 100 years old. Hey Jerryl are you eating dinner, celebrating Brenda's birthday and responding to this thread simultaneously? Somehow your message got garbled at the end. QED

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

Sister Mary,

One of the reasons that I joined a connectional church was because I knew that there would be traditions that would amount to convention with respect to the doctrinal beliefs of the church. In this sense, tradition is good and can keep people from drifting like the chaff with every new fangled doctrine. It is important to have Holy Spirit led and seminary trained ministers in the church. There is nothing more frightening than an ignorant charismatic man using the word of God to exploit people. I have noticed that a number of independent churches have developed independent doctrinal beliefs about baptism and salvation. I remember in the mid 1970's when the doctrinal belief of being baptized in the name of "Jesus only" emerged. I had numerous heated debates with individuals about this issue and the fact that even though Peter said to baptized in the name of Jesus that Jesus said to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son , and Holy Spirit. It's uncanny to me that these doctrines emerge as fads. It is also uncanny to me how a person can say that they are a Christian but never get inquisitive enough to want to read direct quotations from Jesus in the Bible. There are 66 books in the Bible and some people have been in the church for 30 to 40 years and have never read either one of the Gospels. At a minimum, The Gospel of John should be read.

Jazzman

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

Bill,

Yes. Yes. Yes. and I got at an angle where I couldn't see what I'm typing, and tghis entry mechanism doesn't have a built-in spell-checker.

So - Happy birthday to Bill, Rev. Payne, Bishop Bryant, Bishop Hildebrand!

-- Anonymous, June 08, 2004

You know Jazzman, you are absolutely right. I thank God for the AME Church and our preachers who are prepared to teach the truth of the Word.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2004

As I deal with Christians from a variety of denominations I've come to believe in what I call "starter churches". Many churches teach the elementary Truths of the Word, but have a theological ceiling that impairs spiritual growth.

The Baptists are famous for this. They teach the Word to be sure, and I appreciate their emphasis on Scripture memorization and study. Many of them love to debate points of doctrine, and they are very good at apologetics. They are also very good at evangelism. Many a saved soul can thank a Baptist church.

However they don't believe in what we in the AG call the Pentecostal distinctives. These are things such as tongues and gifts of the Holy Spirit. They're Biblical, but many churches don't believe in them.

As a result we have a number of people in my church who were saved and established in Baptist churches, but came to a point where they stopped growing. God had more for them, and they found it in a Pentecostal church.

I've also found even among AG churches there are levels. There are those in my church who come from other AG churches who hit the spiritual ceiling, and God moved them on to a place where deeper Truth was being taught. In these cases it's not a theological ceiling, but a religious spirit or the personal belief of the leadership that caps the growth of the people. God will move some of them on.

I didn't know it at the time, but I actually outgrew my last church. It was an AG church where the pastor forced his personal beliefs on the entire congregation, and I reached a point where I couldn't continue to be a member and follow the upward path.

Since then I've asked God if I'll outgrow my current church. He said, "not if the church continues to grow with you."

In this discussion please remember not everything new is strange fire. Some is, but some of it is Bible you just haven't learned yet. Research it out. Ask God to give you everything there is. You may be surprised where He leads you.

-- Anonymous, June 09, 2004