I saw an interesting report on CNN the other day on voting patterns. Many of our nation's counties are "landslide counties". They vote heavily republican or democrat, and have for years. My own county, Taylor County Texas, is a landslide republican county.

The report went on to say that people who live in conservative counties tend to focus on "family and values", while those in liberal counties focus on "lifestyle and tolerance".

Bottom line: Not only do we hold a set of values personally, we live near people who hold similar values. We have segregated ourselves physically into enclaves where people think like we do, and for that reason America will remain a divided nation for the long term.

My comment: Only a revival of Biblical Christianity can change this. As we submit to God in every area, we'll all think more alike. Jesus only has one view on everything, and as we develop His mind we'll agree more and more on the issues that are out there.

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2004

Answers

Oh to be Abilene Texas what a joy it would be! No misery or strife there! No gays or lesbians or druggies there! Racial peace and tranquility for everyone knows their place. A place where Republicans reign all the day. Oh to be Abilene Texas what a joy it would be.

What does "biblical christianity" mean?

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2004

It is indeed a city of churches. It's not perfect, but our people's faith doesn solve many problems. Like CNN said, family and values vs lifestyle and tolerance. The first two are promoted in the Bible, while the second two are not even mentioned that I'm aware of.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2004

AMEs:

You have too much to do. Do not take the time to issue responses to this organ of the devil! RP is devisive! Use your time and talents to better causes.

Remember the words of Frederick Douglas:

"To me, God is good! God is light! God is truth! God is love! and to glorify God is to lead a life in harmony with these attributes. In this respect man is related to his Creator as the watch is to its maker. A watch glorifies its maker when it answers the end of its manufacture, which is go keep good time--always to be true, and never to be false in its measurement of time. AS God is true, I would have man true! As God is holy, I would have man holy! As God is pure, I would have man pure. An unclean man in body or mind does not glorify his Maker. He may sing praises to the Lord and call himself a Christian, but he brings no glory to the Lord, no good to his fellow man."

AMEs, leave the unclean mind alone. He does not glorify God!

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Brothers and Sisters,

I don't understand. What is so terrible about what RP has said? I live in Virginia, a conservative commonwealth where family and values are highly prized. That's not a bad thing is it? Someone asked the question, "What does Biblical Christianity mean?" Was that intended as a rhetorical question or was an answer genuinely sought? Even sister Mary whom I love, says that RP is an organ of the devil and is devisive! Unclean? Does not glorify God? Please!? What am I missing?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

When I asked what does Biblical Christianity mean I was asking the person who cited that we needed a revival of it. The question is clear and not rhetorical. People have varying definitions of many things in life, and I wanted to know what that particular poster meant by the term.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Ron,

The bible tells us to test the spirits to find those that are of God. Look at RP's posts now and in the past. Take the time to make yourself understand. Pray and ask the Spirit where they came from.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Sister Brooks,

Considering the mess the A.M.E. Church is involved in (a quick scan of the recent posts provides the tip of several icebergs), a return to true Christian values is not only necessary, but is coming very quickly.

In the past, RP posted some questionable topics. But if his posts cause you to reply, and they anger you, then they have made you think. They have made you defend your position. They have helped others who may receive similar questions, but don't know how to respond.

Most of the members of this board have posted at least one controversial subject or reply. As a minister, I need to understand what is going on in our community. I can't ask each and every person, so this board provides a forum for discussion. It is no different than the Rabbis discussing interpretation of Mosaic law.

RP at least has the courage to air his views. How about the thousands of people READING THESE POSTS who don't?

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Mary:

I understand what you mean. I never find anything meaningful in RP's posts. Keep on standing for righteousness. If RP is entitled to say whatever he wants then Mary has the same right and privilege to condemn his remarks.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Rev. Harper:

It takes no courage to post on this board. In addition, the posters on this board are well known. With every post background on the various posters is sent. No one is cellophane. You would be suprised at the number of fakes on this board. You would be astounded at some of the backgrounds of some of the posters. Some are not at all what they appear to be. Perhaps a little more research and probing you might be suprised at what you find.

In addition, you have to be careful with whom you deal with. We use to say "consider the source." It has been implied that this website is getting low brow and the connection is trying to implement other sites to life the denomination.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

The second paragaph contains an error:

In addition, you have to be careful with whom you deal with. We use to say "consider the source." It has been implied that this website is getting low brow and the connection is trying to implement other sites to lift the denomination and aim our zion in a more positive direction."

In addition to the above, I will not leave the message board, but I will be working towards a more positive zion with those who are willing to affect change. I am to old to be "mamby pamby" and seek nouishment from pablum. Old folk need real food to maintain their constitution.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

"In addition, you have to be careful with whom you deal with. We use to say "consider the source." It has been implied that this website is getting low brow and the connection is trying to implement other sites to life the denomination."

I am confused. Since when does discussing relevant issues (Down low brothers, homosexuality, the mission of the church, the problems of the church, the war) make a board "low brow"?

The problem with the Church Universal is that we have the ostrich syndrome. We like to pretend that there aren't any problems. That way, we don't have recognize and deal with the fact that most of us are sitting on the sidelines instead of standing on the front lines of the spiritual war in 2004. God help us if the world or our congregation or our knew WE have issues. What would they think? Guess what? "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"...

Until we admit that we have sins and fault in our church from the TOP to the BOTTOM, we cannot ask God for forgiveness, and ask him to clean our house.

On your other point: If the connection wants to implement a different system, I say hallelujah. I don't think it will happen; The connection has had over 5 years to get a site up, but it was Rev. Fisher who took the lead. This board hasn't moved despite the hacks, and profanity, and slanderous items posted. I have tried to get it moved, but it hasn't....

And as much as I hate doing the housecleaning for those people who deface the board, I welcome the discussion and diversity. And I will keep this board (or a similar one) running until I get called home...

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Rev. Harper:

God bless you, and I believe you are trying and wanting to do the right thing. But you don't even know the whole of it. One day, perhaps you and I will have a friendly chat. I only know some of it, but there are others that can probably tell you more.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Harold opines -

"If RP is entitled to say whatever he wants then Mary has the same right and privilege to condemn his remarks."

True, but does Mary have the right to make character assassination remarks without evidence? This is why we have libel laws which shield individuals from reckless and unfounded accusations. What if RP referred to you, Mary or anyone else as an agent of Lucifer? I'm sure the public outcry about such an accusation would be great (as it should be). Why the double-standard? Is RP a convicted pedaphile, serial killer, embezzler, arsonist, predator of elderly women, giggalo, etc., etc., etc.? If RP is an instrument of Lucifer as she and others apparently believe why can't I be provided with evidence which corroborates these claims so I can reach my own conclusion. Geeze,....It's quite clear that some of us are far more intolerant than what I previously thought. This thread was afterall about a CNN story concerning voting patterns. QED

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Shown below is why I said these posts are Satanic in origin. (It's from another post.) It is in direct oppostion to the Word of God! This is not of Christ. I am a Christian, and I know what Jesus taught! You read the Living Word for yourself.

"THIS IS WHY SATAN IS ON THE ANTI-WAR SIDE! He's trying to stop Christianity from taking root. The anti-war movement is wholly satanic, and Christians who are part of it are blind to who they're promoting. "

If you are a Christian, you show me where Jesus said to go to war to spread His name. I can show you where He said to do good to those who persecute you. Only a devil will play with the living Word of God.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

You can defend RP all you want Bill but in a recent post he called for you guys to notify my pastor in order to start the process of removing me from the church.

Why? Because I simply said that before we ban, we ought to do it the Lord's way and pray for those caught in lifestyles we deem unholy specifically homosexuality.

If that wasn't the voice of the demon, I don't know what is.

Stay strong Mary! Keep lifting the banner of truth!

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Harold - Your error is confusing process with a person. It doesn't matter to me whether the defendant is RP, CP or QED! My concern is protecting the integrity of a well-defined process whereby charges made are supported with corroborating data. Appeals to sensationalize a situation by referring to someone as an agent of Lucifer make for good sound bites but absent evidence are nothing more than cacophonous criticisms. Now, if I understand your complaint you indicate that RP has recommended some form of ecclesiatical sanctions be imposed on you because you choose not to back a ban on gay marriage or gay clergy rights within the AMEC. Since RP has no standing within the AMEC his "suggestion" is null and void and I don't see why this should trouble you. What is more problematic is reconciling your beliefs which the AMEC, through Episcopal decrees, has decided such a lifestyle is inconsistent, incompatible and repugnant towards Bible teaching and AME Doctrine. The issue of homosexuality is a topic which our Zion refuses to adopt a clear and consistent policy. It is not formally addressed in the Discipline and it remains as you correctly observed several years ago a policy tantamount to, 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'. RP didn't bring about this confusion on homosexuality, the AMEC has produced this "problem". RP's suggestion for sanctions against you is troubling and disturbing but I don't see it rising to the level of him as an "agent of Lucifer". If that was the case many AME members who bring charges against fellow members at Quarterly Conference would also be classified as Lucifer's agents. I'm amazed at how you can let someone like RP, with no standing in the AMEC, get under your skin. QED

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Mary opines -

"If you are a Christian, you show me where Jesus said to go to war to spread His name. I can show you where He said to do good to those who persecute you. Only a devil will play with the living Word of God."

The Crusades taught us that even Christians will use the instrument of war to protect a certain lifestyle. War and the spread of the Gospel have coincided throughout much of modern history. This fact is indisputable. Does it make it right? No. But neither does it make it right for people to lie, cheat, commit adultery and steal "in the name of God" as well. Conflict is a reality. Appeasement and diplomacy are inadequate to address a problem if one side is belligerent and refuses to engage in non-aggression. What is also a reality is the frequent use of military conquests and metaphors which permeate throughout Holy Scripture. The establishment of the Nation of Israel was accomplished via military strategy led by "General" Joshua. The Book of Judges is nothing more than a complilation of Israel's military battles and victories. King David was a decorated war hero. St. Paul praises the military in his great sermon in Galatians (Ch. 6) about the whole "Armour of God". Even, Jesus, yes Jesus, recognizes the inevitability of conflict by talking about divisions within a person's household (St. Matt. CH. 10). In this chapter Christ says I am NOT a symbol of Peace but a SWORD. The Bible does NOT universally condemn war. QED

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Bill:

You know what...thank you for the references...I love them.

I believe your reference is to Ephesians 6 rather than Galatians. Please note that the armour is TOTALLY DEFENSIVE and not offensive.

Oh...Matthew 10. Yes, Jesus came to stir things up. No doubt! But he never calls us to do evil to each other!

Tomorrow is opening day of the Philadelphia Conference. To all those who will be in Philly tomorrow hope to see you there.

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Sister Mary,

Don't forget to remind me of your conference that will be in Indianapolis. I would love to put faces behind some of the post. That goes for anyone on the board who will be there. I might even go to one of the nightly services.

In Christ, Carmen

-- Anonymous, May 18, 2004

Bill:

Just because one does not yell "ban this or ban that" does not equate support for the position. My position is simply that banning homosexuals will not make them go away. It only drives those who want to serve underground etc. The idea of being reported to the pastor or being excommunicated from any Christian fellowship by saying let's first seek the kingdom of God and the wisdom of God before separating anyone from fellowship is repugnant and satanic to me.

RP does not get under my skin at all, in fact I find his philistinism amusing most of the time.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2004

Yes, Mary you are correct. I was thinking about Ephesians but typed in Galatians. I suppose my mind and keyboard commands are not in synch :-) QED

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2004

Well, I think we've all learned why we live apart. Mixing viewpoints on the web creates enough turbulence. Imagine mixing them in a locality.

Good fences make good neighbors? Somehow I don't think that was the Lord's plan even though it works out that way. He wants us to find out what His view is, and then we'll think alike. I've found mature Christians agree on just about everything regardless of denomination. In fact sometimes this puts them at odds with their denomination.

It happens because they're learning the mind of God.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2004

Thank you RP for proving my point.

-- Anonymous, May 19, 2004