Are Demons Fallen Angels?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 30, 2003

Answers

I don't think so (And I don't think I'm going to hell for believing in this either). Demons and Fallen Angels are not one an the same. Demons are created by Satan; Fallen Angels were created by God but were cast down from heaven for their disobedience.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 30, 2003.

Yes, David, Demons were not created by God.

Demons are those who have turned against God.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 01, 2003.

"Yes, David, Demons were not created by God. "

Nostorius take a further leap.

who created them, then?

are they gods, also?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 13, 2004.

You can't create anything Ian?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 13, 2004.

angels were created by God. of their own free will, they rejected God. and became demons.

they must have been created by God. if they created themselves, then they too are gods.

God made everything. including Hitler, Koresh, Saddam, Pot, etc. and Lucifer.

"You can't create anything Ian? "

in the strict sense, no. i can "make" a sandwich, but in truth i am merely "fashioning" things that God created. peanuts, flour etc. everything we "create" we fashion from something that God made.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 14, 2004.

Ian, that is exactly what the Devil did. He molds your (everyones) greed, selfishness, etc.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004.

God does not created evil.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004.

Ian,

Can God make a rock so big that he could not carry?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004.

One of those rare instances I agree with you Ian about creation.

Your argument was very logical.

Yes, God created Hitler, Saddam,...Osama Bin Laden ... They in turn became Demons.

Besides what you said, if Denmons created themselves, then they would be Gods.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), January 16, 2004.

Dave

explain "evil".

what is it?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 16, 2004.

"Ian, Can God make a rock so big that he could not carry?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004. "

YES. YES. YES.

so answer my question.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 16, 2004.

Ian, I will not answer your question because of your last answer. Please tell me how God can make a rock so big he could no lift up.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004.

David and Ian

That "big rock" that is so big that God "will" not carry it is very obvious. That big rock is called "Free Will". God will not carry it because that is the rock that we decide to carry or not.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 16, 2004.

What kind of Free Will rod? The heart/mind etc, is tainted with sin! An unregenerate human WILL NOT and CANNOT Choose God. His (sinners) 'will' only does what his nature allows him to do, and that is to sin.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 16, 2004.

David

For a self-proclaimed "Non-Calvinist", you sure do sound like a Calvinist. Plus, you are denying that God gave us "Free Will". I have already given Scriptural proof for "Free Will" in the other threads (as have other people).

It is interesting to observe how you, David, came to be a Christian. You were brought in by motherly hands. You still have a choice to remain or leave Christianity. If what you say/believe is true, then are you saying that it is your "nature" to remain a Christian while others--who are not-- do not have it in their nature to accept? Then, why bother preaching to those other souls? If God will draw them to Him, why would the evangelical doctrine even bother with their "vain" approach? Ah! it is because we certainly do have the gift from God called "Free Will".

You've been hangin around too much calvinistic preaching, David.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 17, 2004.

"Tainted with sin"???

Over the years, I've heard people/sinners go to the front of the pulpit and give their testimony. They tell of the sinful lives they lead and the dark awful degenerates that they once were. They tell of their final lowest fall where there was nowhere to go but up or suicide. They then decided to lift themselves up and begin to follow Christ.

Don't you think that "tainted with sin" was some sort of catalyst for their decision in life? Some people can't cope with too much and will cave-in. Some are intelligent enough to get their acts together. Some can do either one without ever opening the Bible or attending church. Yet, they can find their solutions. But, there are those who make that choice to listen to the Gospels and make their move.

I think that "tainted with sin" can play its part in getting people back on track by having them suffer those consequences sins provide. But, we still have atheists and "cold water pseudo-Christians". God may call them, but it is up to that individual to make the move. God doesn't touch that "big rock" because God doesn't play around with puppets. If God does make puppets out of His creations, then God would be a cruel Creator in calling only those that He chose and allow the rest to fry in Hell. That is the most illogical thing and would certainly negate the idea of "Free Will".

.................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 17, 2004.

I suppose that I do accept the doctrine of Evangelism, to some extent. But, Calvinism has a destructive effect on genuine Evangelism. Hey, man is not depraved.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 17, 2004.

rod,

I have told you before, I am not a Calvinist. I am a Chrisitan.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 17, 2004.

David, you can keep telling me that you aren't a Calvinist, but your post say otherwise.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 17, 2004.

Dave:

"Ian, I will not answer your question because of your last answer. Please tell me how God can make a rock so big he could no lift up."

i am trying to research this point. i have expressed my thesis which boil down ti Him being Omnipotent.

can you please help me by explaining why He could not create a rock that He cannot lift. I trust that you will do this from Scripture.

i note Rod's point and i confess that i need to do some homework before i understand it fully.

over to you.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 18, 2004.

How can us mortal humans understand God's seemingly paradoxical nature without having His divine insight? All things are possible with God. I suppose that God may create anything He wishes. If He can create a rock that He cannot lift--a paradox--He may also destroy it because He created it--another paradox. If we try to decode such a paradox, we would be like a microbe traversing the circumference of a Mobius strip and never realizing that the journey has been repeated many times over.

People, our entire existence pales in comparison to making the attempt to explain our Creator's existence. Somethings boggle the mind and would probably even make us insane once knowing the answers. I wonder if God will reveal those mysteries once we make it to Heaven to be with Him.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 18, 2004.

The brain "crashes" when it can no longer make connections with the information it has gathered. Try playing difficult music on the piano; your fingers suddenly stop, your eyes squint, your speech mutes, and you begin to wonder why you even considered playing such a difficult piece of music in the first place, as you go back to the begining and start again.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 18, 2004.

"If He can create a rock that He cannot lift--a paradox--He may also destroy it because He created it--another paradox."

indeed!!!!!!!

these are the mysteries of the faith. our only limit is ourselves.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 18, 2004.

if you haven't noticed god created all the things around us so satan was created by god and satan creat demons. buet satan is the most powerfull demon.also i think that alll thing about hell dosen't exist because if god forgives you everything why will he send you to hell??? what i say is that demons creat angels and angels creat demons. if you have something to say please email me.

-- olivia (livycat@hotmail.com), December 31, 2004.

Hi Olivia,

"if you haven't noticed god created all the things around us so satan was created by god and satan creat demons."

Well, yes, God did create. I'm not so sure that God created evil. I think that is man's design.

buet satan is the most powerfull demon.

Demon? I think Satan is actually an Angel.

also i think that alll thing about hell dosen't exist because if god forgives you everything why will he send you to hell???

Hmm.....well, for the believer, Hell does exist, but it may not be the believer's destination if God forgives and judges the believer's soul to Salvation. But, for those who reject Christ, Salvation may not be and Hell awaits.

what i say is that demons creat angels and angels creat demons.

God creates all that is. It would seem logical that Angels and Humans have a free will to choose God or to deny God. Sure, we can be tempted by Satan to turn to evilness, but Satan creates nothing except deception and evil.

if you have something to say please email me.

I hope that keeping my replies in this forum is ok.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 31, 2004.

God alone creates, and all that He created was created good. Demons are those beings God created as angels, who turned away from God and chose evil. Satan didn't create demons. He is not a creator. God alone is. Satan himself was created good, by the One Creator, but used his free will to rebel against God and to choose evil. Those other angels who followed him are now demons. They owe their existence to God, as do all beings, but their identity as demons to their own free choice.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 31, 2004.

In creating free-willed creatures--there had to be choice available to mankind.

Although God did not create evil directly--He did make evil possible. It was a necessary chance in order for human beings to be truly free.

But it is us who make evil actual by our choices.

-- (faith01@myway.com), December 31, 2004.