To what extent are we responsible for the care of our old age parents? How about when you have an obusive drunk father? How about when they smoke two packs a day and have never taken care of themselves? Whats the answer? Is there an answer? Marcia's post really got me thinking about this horrible problem!

Barb thinks we are responsible no matter what, while I just don't think so. I look at the fact that if I drink and smoke and generally go to hell how in the world could I ask my own children to care for me?.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 27, 2003

Answers

I'm with Barb, Kirk. I think it's our responsibility to take care of our family, and not expect someone else to do it. I personally don't think I have the right to judge whether or not someone has lived enough up to my values to warrant doing my duty as a citizen of the human family. We all mess up, we are all human, and folks who smoke and drink to excess are addicts. Have you ever been addicted to anything, Kirk? One thing good about addiction is that it often brings the addict a lifelong empathy for others' pain. and makes them less judgemental.

Now if it comes down to having a relative who is currently abusive, it's a different story as far as hands-on care goes. I would probably try to get outside professional help (like dear Polly!) rather than expose myself or other family members to dangerous behaviour. Folks who have suffered under abusive parents have different issues of course, but I think they are there for a reason, and to sweep them further under the rug by passing the buck only means those issues will come back to haunt us next time around.

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

We are responsible to the extent of which we were reared by our parents and what values and loyalties they instilled in us. In my family I grew up in a loving and respectful family of patriarical structure. My elders progressed me through maturity. I in turn accepted the requirements laid upon me and returned the loyalties and respect warrented by our family structure to maintain my honor.

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

Hey Jay, just curious. How can a family of patriarchal structure be respectful? Or do you mean fearful when you say respectful?

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

I know I'm gonna get it for this but as far as I'm concerned, my parents can put themselves in a home. Mine too drank (until Mom killed her pancrese and is now addicted to percaset and Dad is still drinking will taking his Parkinsins drugs) They also smoke so much that my whole childhood I stunk!! If you got something on the wall, you couldn't wash it off unless you had enough time to wash the WHOLE wall. MY Mother is also one of those people who lie to tell you what she thinks you want to hear.

I had custody of my grandmother for a little while. Did I ever tell you that she is NUTS!! I put up with her telling people I steal from her and was trying to put her away so I could get her house. She once told me this sad story of how no one visited or called her for Christmas. Oh, she had such a pitiful voice and sad eyes until she turned to me and realized who she was telling the story to. Then in a nasty voice she said,"Oh, you came" She liked the attention. Letting anyone into her check book even though I kept telling her not to. She would do this eyes rolling into her head thing that scared Gary then she got mad that I didn't bring him around anymore. We found a nursing home close to me so I could visit everyday. I had plans of them putting in a garden and a place for her Madonna. It had nice rooms, good food, entertainment and a swimming pool. She needed someone to watch her pill taking. She would take all kinds of drugs and drink on top of it. She was all for going then suddenly said no. I heard her liver is finally shot from all the Tylenol she used to eat. I stopped bothering with her when she called the cops on me.

My in-laws, now that is another story. I would take my mother-in- law in at a moments notice. My father-in-law is very opionated and swears alot (Glenn unfortunately took after him and I keep telling Gary not to follow in that family footsteps)but he is a great guy too. I miss him coming up to help around the farm. His legs give him alot of trouble

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

EM, It works for us and I prefer it to the life our outcasts went to on the left coast. :>)

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

I know of what you say Dee!! A parent from hell is an ugly thing!!

I just think as parents we are supposed to take care of our children. I personally don't see it as a 2 way deal. I just don't expect my kids to have to care for me.

Em I can't think of anything I've ever been addicted to! Thats weird huh? Maybe thats my problem. But still a person can have compassion for a drunk and not have to feel obligated to care for then all their life can't they? Compassion doesn't mean we have to feel responsible just cuz of a blood connection? If my mother dumped me on anothers doorstep does that make me obligated to find her and care for her in old age? You don't really expect your own kids to take care of you...or do you? Thats a load for them. "Listen kid save those bucks cuz I may need em later". Ha!.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

Kirk, I believe that if the parents raised us right, then the question of whether or not to take care of them will never come up. We'll know what to do.

Abusive parents? I'll have to agree with E.M. on that one. Tough call and if you still love them, despite their abusiveness, it's even a tougher call. That's when you pray that someone else in the family will come to the rescue.

There's an old saying "one parent can take care of ten children but ten children can't take care of one parent." I'm sure almost everyone here has experienced that and knows it's true. It seems like we're always too wrapped up in our lives to take care of our parents and I don't just mean after they get sick and need help.

We might want to remember that no matter how much we do for them while they're alive, if often seems like very little after they die.

Wildman (waxing philosophical)

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2003

I think the decision to take care of elderly parents has to be a personal one based on each individual's feelings towards a parent. I also had a mother, father AND stepfather from Hell. My mom was deadly with a hairbrush or wooden spoon and couldn't she "rearrange" my room in a hurry when she was in a "mood" :-)!! My father was an alcoholic and chain smoker...not to mention overly friendly with his daughters :-(! Us kids weren't sorry when he cut out on us back in '63. I wont even get into my stepfather's attitude!! But when my real father called me one day out of the blue, I invited him here to Maine to visit for awhile. I hadn't seen or heard from him in almost 27 yrs. We never spoke of the past...all he said was that he had many regrets. He left and went back to Johnstown, Pa. where he died 4 mos. later of lung cancer. He knew he was dying and I think he just wanted to "connect" with at least one of his kids before he passed away. My brother and sisters never acknowleged him and I was the one who took responsibility for his cremation. His ashes are now in my garden helping it to grow every year :-)!!! To this day my siblngs have "problems" and I often wonder if they had come to terms with the past and just faced him would they be doing any better!!??

I will take care of my mom (also in spite of the past) to the best of my "long distance" ability...NOT because I think it's my responsibility, but just because I WANT to. Maybe I'm being selfish and am doing it for my own peace of mind. I just don't want her to die alone (does anyone??) thinking that none of her kids care!!

Incidently...I don't expect my son, Mike, to take care of me when I'm older, but I would hope that he will show some respect for me and at least offer to help me out once in awhile!

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2003

I already decided I'm gonna find a nice adult community to live out my live so I will never be a burden to my son. Also so he would never have to make any decisions about me.

I really don't think some of them are so bad. They have entertainment, trips, food. This one place I checked out for my grandmother was like a hotel. It was unbelievable. You had your own apartment first, then if needed, an assisted-living room, then if necessary, an assisted-living bed. Super expensive though. I wasn't sure if she could have afforded that place. The one we picked out was really nice. I was disappointed that I wouldn't be going there to visit.

My other grandmother (she lived to be 96 by the way and had all her teeth, as she liked to tell everyone) was so lonely after my grandfather died. My father would stop in everyday and buy her stuff she needed. She would get "meals on wheels" but she would sit in her chair, day in and day out watching TV for 20 years. Never went anywhere or did anything (we would offer but she wouldn't) I mentioned to her my idea of going to a home and she said maybe if she was younger she would have considered it. It just seemed to me she was waiting to die. I know my father was.

The only bad I have heared about these places is that people get depressed because friends they have made die. Well, yes, I guess if everyone is old, then people will start to die.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2003

I think we should take care of them if at all possible. The best situation would be one like in the Walton's where Grandma and Grandpa were contributing members of the family and all depended on one another. But I think that worked out only when the elderly are able to operate with their minds in tact.

My Grandmother on the other hand doesn't know where she is or what era she is in from one moment to another. And she has become progressively meaner and meaner. She threatened another resident the other day that irritates her. I'm afraid she's going to end up in a fist fight. For real! My Mom goes to visit almost daily and I go with the kids pretty often. And she's just as mean to us. I can't imagine if we were taking care of her at home. What did people do with nasty elders before there were so many nursing homes?

Oh and she also thinks we are after her home. Pretty sad. Huh?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2003

Hi Denise!!!!!

Dementia!! Wouldn't be a wonderful thing if in our lifetime we could find a cure? Old age is bad enough if we could keep our brain intact. Sorry obout your Grandma. Aaaa if only it worked like the Waltons huh?....Kirk

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2003

On the responsibility issue, I also think it depends on the people involved, but in general, if your parents treated you fairly well and provided for you, then yes, you have a responsibility to take care of your parents.

Unfortunately, that isn't always easy. Frankly, most elderly people just get plain weird. Things that they spent half their lives swearing they wanted (like not to be a burden on their children or that they'd go to a nursing home or pull the plug if they're terminal) are suddenly NOT what they want when faced with that situation. My best friend is going through it with her mother -- who had a stroke which put her in a wheelchair and is now becoming very forgetful and unable to take care of herself, even with part-time assistance. But her mother doesn't want to go into an assisted- living facility. Part of that is fear of the unknown. Probably part of that is also fear of the KNOWN (or what they think they know, nursing homes have a very bad rep with most people).

But I also think most people have neurochemical changes along with other brain function problems, and they just get WEIRD. If you have a parent or grandparent who keeps all their marbles until the night they die in their sleep, you are darn lucky and in the vast minority. A cousin of my mother's, who lived in our same little town, was diagnosed with cancer (she'd been feeling poorly for sometime but hadn't gone to the doctor) and was dead within a week. My mother was absolutely shocked when she told me and I said "Good!" But my position was that she was terminal, she had time to for her family to gather and say goodbye to her, and then she was gone, in her sleep. She never had to go through months of the usual agonizing pain and slow wasting of most terminal cancer patients. And her family didn't have to watch her go that way.

If it happened to my mother, diagnosed terminal and gone in a week, it would be a shock to me, but having watched grandparents deteriorate, and now my aunt (mind is gone), and my dad in a nursing home until he died, I'd prefer they be spared all that pain and indignity. I will mourn one way or the other, so I'd rather it was quick! BTW, my mother got over her shock when I explained my position. I guess I should have phrased it better! :-/

-- Anonymous, October 06, 2003

Like others have said, I believe it is situational. My parents went far beyond food, shelter, etc... to give me an excellent upbringing. Do I feel an obligation exists? Yes. But I didn't help care for Mama in her dying days, and I don't take care of Pop because I feel an obligation - I did/do it because I love them both dearly and know that I can care for them more competently, and more importantly, more kindly than anyone else.

Kirk, the Waltons still exist - come meet my family sometime. Pop was born on the family farm of his Dad's family because his parents were living there to take care of his grandfather who was dying. On Pop's side, one of his sisters lived with Granny for years - she worked and brought in income, Granny watched her son while she worked. Pop's brother (Uncle Ivan) lived right next door and did Granny's yard work and helped keep her garden up. Granny didn't have much social security, but she did have a lot of pride - She wouldn't ask her kids for a nickle. But every Sunday and every holiday found most of her kids crammed into her tiny house for a dinner that she prepared (with help from the family); and every Sunday, some cash found it's way from her kid's pockets to hers - to help with next Sunday's dinner expenses, you know. I remember Granny going on almost every family vacation we went on - just to help keep an eye on me, of course; so Mama and Pop could get a little respite. When my mother (who was abused at her home) wouldn't go home after work one day, my Aunt Geri (Pop's sister) took Mama home from work with her, and there she stayed for 2 years, until she graduated from high school - we used to tease Mama that she only married Pop so she could stay in the family! When Pop was a kid, he remembers his brothers and sister and him picking strawberries at 2 cents a box and saving their money until they got $3.50 - so they could buy their "Mommy" (what they still call her) a permanent wave. When Mama was dying, Pop and I were never alone - and only one member of Mama's family helped; the rest was Pop's family. When Aunt 'Retta was dying, family was there 24/7. When Jessie's Dad and I divorced, I was in pretty bad shape financially for a while. I went to a Thanksgiving dinner, and on the way home, I reached in my coat pocket for a tissue and pulled out a wad of cash - about $200 in ones, fives and tens - that my family had managed to tuck in my pocket without my knowing it. Several family members have lived with us at one time or another when they were having hard luck. When we all got together back in late August to see my cousin Brandon off to Air Force basic training, we heard how a remodeling project was going in another household - see, my cousin Marilyn (who provides a home for her granddaughter) is moving in with her oldest daughter and son-in-law and their two kids while the SIL is going back to school - to help with expenses. And we stretch out to encompass people who aren't exactly family - a few years after Aunt Geri died, her husband remarried; Uncle Wil still comes to the family dinners, and now he brings "Aunt" Ann with him. Then there's the little boy that lived with Mama, Pop and I for 9 years - he and his wife still attend the family gatherings. We're tolerant of each others shortcomings - tho heaven knows we don't hesitate to inform someone if they're acting stupid. Just don't let an outsider tell us the same person is acting stupid - that calls for some serious butt whuppin'. I don't think I'd trade my family for anything on earth.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2003

Gosh thats so absolutly beautiful Polly!! I so enjoy your posts about your family. Thank you for being willing to write about them! Nice family's are a treasure......Kirk

-- Anonymous, October 13, 2003