I must present a paper upon this question and just wanted to read some of the board's views. My greatest concern would be the disintegration of the African American family. Within the urban center, the positive male role model is absent. I have so many children which look to me as their adopted father. I discovered this while listening to the father's day presentation during the church school. Talk about putting pressure on ol'Ray's shoulders...that did it! In your opinion, what is your pressing social concern?

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2003

Answers

I believe the single most important issue confronting the AMEC is recapturing the young adult age group between 22 - 35. Rejuvinating RAYAC is a start but this requires Connectional-wide committment. This is precisely the age group that COGIC and independent movements (Word churches) have used to build their congregations. Upon completion of college many of these members leave the ranks of AME due to their perceptions that the church is not attentive to their needs. I have stressed before that this demographic group holds the key to our present and future. They are well educated, articulate and talented people. Perhaps we should have a Bishop no older than 35 in order to show the church's committment to this pressing issue. Desperate times call for desperate actions. I'm afraid that if we continue to ignore this problem our future as a denominational will consist of octegenarians and AARP enrollees. QED

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2003

Brother Dickens

May I have your permission to reprint your answer in our Michigan Conference Lay Organization NEWSLETTER? The young adults (18-35) in our Conference are excited about RAYAC and the possibility that their concerns will be heard. I think this age group will be very visible at the upcoming Lay Biennial Session in New Orleans.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2003

Our social concerns are simply symptoms of the real problem. We, as a church, have left our first love, Jesus the Christ. Our Book of Discipline means more to us than our Bible. Of course, there are individual AMEs who are true worshipers, but as a body we are very sick. The solution is to return to our first love, Christ Jesus.

BE Blessed

Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2003

N my opinion, electing a person no older than 35 would not solve the "young adult exodus." Too prove that we are serious about our youth, try electing some trustees and nominating stewards this age and under. I find that youth attracts youth. Most of our youth do not leave due to the fact of the Bishop. Suffice it to say that many may not even know who the Bishop is or what the denomination is about. Most of the "Word Churches" find growth and attract members due to ministries and relevant messages meeting the needs of the people. The passing of the baton is way overdue! If you wish to see a return, try seeing them as responsible persons capable of serving in the church other than the Usher Board.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2003

Parson Ray -

I fully support inclusion of young adults as peers functioning in the role of stewards and trustees. The problem is that many of our churches consist of savvy seniors who privately oppose younger peers due to spiritual and professional insecurities. Now I find your skepticism about my proposal of a "Young Adult" Bishop somewhat curioius. Yound Adult leaders permeate thoughout the Sacred Text. David was selected as Saul's successor as a teen. Jeremiah was called to be a Prophet for Jehovah at a young age. Paul stressed in his letter to Timothy that age was a moot issue for Christian Ministry. Your ministry with youth and young adults speaks crystal clear about your committment. Yes, the position of Bishop is not a cure-all. Nonetheless, this is where leadership begins in the AMEC. Such an adoption would reflect the degree of importance we place on sincerely responding to the issue about recapturing this demographic group. Furthermore, we already impose age requirements for service exit, i.e. mandatory retirement, at age 72 for Bishops and P.E. We also impose credential requirements for AME clergy to receive particular forms of ordination. What is the difference between using age as an allocation tool for determining service exit and service entry (Young Adult Bishop)? Conceptually nothing. Why is it OK to mandate an academic requirement for AME ordination? I will go out on a limb as say this. If Rev. Jamal Bryant was a Bishop he would do more in two years than many of his contemporaries would do in ten years. Jamal Bryant could and would help mitigate the exodus of young adults from our Zion. The fact that his name or someone like him is not even being mentioned as a candidatein 2004 illustrates why this problem is not being taken seriously. He that hath ears to hear let him hear. QED

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2003

While attending a particular institution in Cambridge, I was impressed with numerous persons completing their first or second year of seminary. Out of the six attending the summer session I met who happened to be African American...two were from the AME Church. The other four were from the Baptist Church and non-denominational. One in particular was once part of a law firm on Wall Street and doing pretty well. She attends Allen Cathedral in Jamaica Queens. What attracted her was the the activity and participation of both male and female, young and experienced members. As a matter of fact, she not familiar upon the polity of the church or what the denomination was all about. She was active and very much involved within her local church. The three AME pastors present, myself included, learned a great deal of what attracted and kept her in church. We shared information and exchanged ideas. She learned about the denomination, and I learned about one perspective of slowing down the revolving door! On the west coast, just look at FAME! Look at ST. Mark in Orlando. In Washington, DC, look at Reid Temple. In Fort Washingtion, look at Ebenezer. In Newark, look at St.James. It must begin by changing attitudes and learning to pass the baton! It must start and be implemented upon the local level.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2003

I would say one of the most pressing social concerns is Poverty, as we look across this country we see at least one third of our states in dire fiscal straights, programs are being cut left and right. In the 60's we were very intentional about "the war on poverty" to me poverty is an act of terrorism, for children are hungry, people are homeless. Poverty in the U.S needs to talked about and forums for solutions should be held. I live in Montana, a state that is 98 percent white. Because of budget deficits, Most money from health and human servicew were cut out. Our mental health programs have very little money. Another social concern is Aids, in Africa, and the U.S. Rates are rising again in the U.S and are at epedemic levels in Africa. Adequate Health Care coverage is another major concern. The rate of those who are uninsured is also rising, people are using the emergency room as their primary physican.

Environmental pollution is another social concern, toxic materials are being dumped in the poorer sections of our country. Bishop Thomas Hoyt of the CME church has been a champion in fighting this issue in Louisiana. When we begin to talk about social concerns, there is a direct tie-in with whom is in political office and who are we going to vote in. For these people make policy that will affect our lives.

One last thing Ray please mention the school you attended in Cambridge. You worked hard to get in, and it might be inspiring to someone else that is considering college. Thanks for raising the question.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2003

Now let's be a bit geographically specific. There are other cities named Cambridge with fine schools. Cambridge, England is home of perhaps the most influential university in all of Europe, Cambridge University. Cambridge, MD, located on the beautiful Eastern Shore is home to the, hmmm..... can't remember. Well, I think it's safe to say that Prason Ray, due to his gender, ain't (sic) an alum of Radcliffe College in Cambridge, Mass :-) QED

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2003

Brother Bill asked to be geographically specific. While in the area, Bro. Ray and his collegues visited us at St Paul AME, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 02139. St. Paul is located between 2 great universities, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and Harvard. It may be part of out civic nature to think there is only one Cambridge. The Harvard vs Yale football game is called THE Game. The Boston Marathon is called THE Marathon. Apologies to the other Cambridges but it is "a Boston thing."

On the question, I agree that the positive male presence is an issue. The impact on the young people, male and female is troubling. On Father's Day, the men of our church present a book to one of the boys of the Sons of Allen (40 plus Boys 5-12). The book is to be age appropriate, African American related. Last year, I presented the Langston Hughes Pictorial Biography and the mother said it was a blessing to not just the boy but for the whole family. There are 8 men working with these boys in the ministry. The year end presentation includes displaying projects that have been completed during the year. The highlight of the Sons of Allen year is the Oratorial Service when every boy recites a poem or passage at an afternoon service. It is awesome to see a short 6 year old Brother standing on a chair to be seen over the pulpit and quoting Dr Martin Luther King.

The challenge is to bring more men, especially young men, to Christ and bring them to a maturity to serve. the church will benefit , the family will surely benefit and the community will benefit and of course the Men will benefit. God Bless Brother Bob

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2003

My time in New England is treasured memory! The St. Paul Family is to be commended in making students attending the area schools feel at home! Dr. Attles preached a dynamic message! Brother D. Patterson was in rare form with the choir! The church provided transportation back to our school, which is a plus when you are on a budget! Brother Bob even provided his friend, Ray Allen, information upon church sponsored projects. He even called knew who I was, although I used my real name! St. Paul, Charles Street, Grant, Bethel, all are dynamic churches with dynamic ministries! It is not a Boston thing, or a Cambridge thing, it is a "New England Thing."

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2003

I want to share with you Ray and the board how wonderful and kind Bro. Bob is, my daughter licentiate Danielle Rogers will be attending seminary in the fall of 2004 and she is considering harvard, there is a professor that wants to work with her. Bro. Bob has already extended a hand of friendship and offered support and told her about St. Paul. This really means a lot to both of us, to know that there will be family waiting. I might add, my seminary Princeton wants her to come there;-) Bro. Bob reminds me of John Wesley when Wesley said "the whole world is my parish" for Bro. Bob reached out to me also. I am hoping to get to Boston to do some research in my field of egyptology, so I look forward to meeting Bro. Bo. And Ray I still consider you my biological brother even though you went to the other school. Just a little friendly rivalry between Harvard and Princeton.

Bro. Bob truly shows what connectionlism is all about.

-- Anonymous, June 23, 2003

I found the comments regarding the youth of the AME Church to be most interesting. I think that the youth are a very unique concern in the AME Church. I agree with Bro. Dickens' earlier comments in this thread regarding some of the dilemas that the youth in the AME Church currently face. I have personally found through interactions with youth in my district that the problem regarding the youth is not so much the leadership issue (lack of youngerBishops, stewards/trustees, etc), but ignorance. Many youth know, for the most part about God and his role in their lives; but, many youth are ignorant about the AME Church. I just met a young woman this weekend who has been in the AME Church for years. She is in her mid twenties, fustrated and exasperated because unknowingly in her quest to do something new she had stepped into a political situation overstepping authority. She wasn't aware that there was a process that she should consider before she went off trying to make changes. For the first time in her life she held in her hands the AME Discipline when I showed her my (2000) copy. I walked her through some parts of the Discipline, especially the WMS portion since she is being recruited for YWI. We had a nice discussion about being AME. I told her that she should pick up a copy of the Discipline to get some information about our organizational structure, our numerous missions and the like. This young lady is an example of the dilema of the youth in our Church. Many of us are AME's and really have no clue what that means. In an earlier thread regarding the Indianapolis YPD/YLO, I made comments regarding the need for our youth to be taught about the politics, polity and history of the AME Church. I think that it is imperative that we teach our young people about the history of the AME Church, its methods, it's polity and it's traditions. You've got to know something in order to truly love it. Where's the love? That is the problem. I think many youth like the AME Church, but do they truly love it is the question. I've followed many of the threads on this site and all the adults speak of the AME church with love and zeal. Adults speak of change with a passion of the best of visionaries. They are heartfully concerned if our faux pas are hindering us from doing the work of God. And this discourse is conducted with a level of knowledge about the workings of the Church. The young people, on the other hand, read the threads on the site, don't really engage in conversations. When they do, they are confused about what to do, how to do it, and where to go with their issues. I believe if the majority of the young people had (at least some) knowledge of our Church then, the other demonations with all of their bola bola would not be able to lead our youth away so easily. Young people are duped into thinking that if they go somewhere (more "entertaining"- whatever that means), then they will not have to bump their heads against politics and traditions, only to find that it is everywhere. We have got to promote our Church to our young people as something truly great and wonderful. You talk to young Catholics, Jews, COGIC, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like and they can tell you all about their denomonation. You start talking to some of our youth, and they can't tell you too much about the AME Church beyond the YPD and a few activities and organizations they are involved in. We talk about knowing and loving God so we as Christians can't be lead astray. Let's use that same ideology about the AME Church. Let's start helping our young people to know and love the AME Church so they as effective AME's can't be lead astray. Maybe then we'll be able to retain a few more youth.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2003

Get to know who is sitting next to you, implement programs for youth. After all they are your tomorrow. Second, don't talk negative about your church in front of others.

-- Anonymous, June 24, 2003

Ms. Anderson:

I think that you are correct in your comment "get to know who is sitting next to you." Builiding genuine relationships with the youth in the church is helpful as well. Our God is a God of relationships. Honoring God with all our heart and soul and mind, loving our neighbors as ourselves, honoring our mother and father, not coveting our neighbors, wife, manservant, etc., the other Commandments as well as Jesus' teachings are about building positive relationships that help us to grow mentally and spiritually. If we seek to build relationships with one another, I think that we can get ahead. Get to know, before you begin to make judgements and turn (or run) away. That is the reponsibility of adults and young people alike. Teaching too is about relationships. Without reciprocity between teacher and student there really isn't a learning process. And remember, teachers must be students too. (We learn from our students and other teachers as well). Let's get to know God, our Christian brothers and sisters (local and elsewhere), and the AME Church. Getting to know helps to build relationships and retain those relationships that are meaningful to us.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2003

I would say that the most pressing social concern is education. We do not value education in our communities as much as we should, and the church is a great vehicle for instilling the value and importance of education from an early age. After sermons are over people still have to make a living. The way to improve overall quality of life is by getting a good education, and furthermore taking advantage of college opportunities. I have heard way too many church people say that college is not for everyone, and I absolutely reject that notion. Not everyone has taken the time and effort to learn to appreciate the value of and advantages a college education can bring, or dedicate themselves to the work necessary to suceed. I think we teach each other to be lazy and accept what is, not want more than what doesn't tax our minds. Encouraging people to value education can only enhance the ability of the church to be a positive and credible force in the community. Being uneducated does not make you any more holy than someone with a Ph.D., and being educated does not make you any less holy or dedicated to God. I think that in some denominations/churches, people may even fear having congregations that are highly educated because that means that less people are likely to blindly accept messages, more likely to question things, and perhaps even challenge established thought. For this reason, I feel that the black church has been slow to, in some respects, be the force it could be in demanding quality education at elementary and secondary levels, as well as in encouraging its congregations to attend college and actively support (the children of) its congregation members that are in college. The church could really do much more than it has historically to address this issue, and it hasn't in my opinion been the force in education that it could be.

-- Anonymous, June 30, 2003

Sis. Imani opined.....

"I have heard way too many church people say that college is not for everyone, and I absolutely reject that notion. Not everyone has taken the time and effort to learn to appreciate the value of and advantages a college education can bring, or dedicate themselves to the work necessary to suceed." I agree with the importance of the pursuit of knowledge but disagree with the implied idea that a university experience is the only method to attain knowledge. There are many individuals who are simply not ready or prepared for the rigor of higher education. A university experience is highly elitist in structure, and rightly so, because the demands required for original thinking and critical analysis assume the person appreciates discipline, intellectual curiosity and sacrifice. When a person concludes that he/she is not willing to put forth the above effort, college is not in their best interests. Now this doesn't mean that a person who opts for a non-college experience is incapable of knowledge acquisition. A person who decides against college and selects an alternative path can still make great contributions in the knowledge sphere. A far more serious problem in our churches is the low Biblical IQs of our members and their attendant low interest in Christian Education activities. Bible Study and Christian Ed activities are simply not viewed as a priority. Too many of our members struggle to differentiate between I & II Chronicles from I & II Corinthians. We do not display an enthusiasm for sytematic study of the Scriptures yet we vainly boast about the number of terminal degrees we possess. In too many cases our pursuit of terminal degrees has led to the "terminal thinking". QED

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2003

Education is one of my passions, and all of us should have an attitude of "life long learning". In my family I was the first one to finish high school, my father dropped out of school in the third grade for he grew up on a farm with 14 other siblings, education was not a priorty and thus my father never understood the value of an education and did not instill a desire in his children. My mother had a passion for books, and the arts and culture. She would tell me about Michaelangelo when I was three and she always told my brother and I if we do nothing else we must read. Though she died when I was 7 she planted a powerful seed within me, I am 51 and when I was in school teachers assumed that black children could not do college level work and taught us to aspire for a job at the telephone company. The point that I want to make is that those of us have had the opportunity to go to college and graduate school need to realize these are gifts from God and that we should use our knowledge to glorify him and encourage others to attend college. Colleges and universities are like a pair of new shoes, one must find the "right fit". For example I did not go to college until I was 30. For that is when I received my call to serve God, I was United Methodist at the time and it was mandatory for ordination that you have a college degree and seminary degree, the UMC do not give out deacon's orders until you have finished seminary. It took me six years to get my B.A. because I had to work and raise my daughter alone. I found a college that had a program for non-traditional students (students over 25) it was a perfect fit for me because they had a religious study program. I do not have my doctorate yet, and that is still one of my goals at 51. I am going to get my doctorate. I am an egyptologist because I love history and evangelism, I wanted to learn how the early church expanded around the world, then I stumbled on Nubia and christianity, then I began asking questions of scholars and they did not have the answer to my questions, so I kept researching and then one day, scholars began asking me questions.

I want to encourage everyone to go to college if you have the desire. With hard work you can succeed. What you will find is that there will be classes that will excite you. And in terms of low Biblical IQ's in churches, we as clergy have to take responsibility and blame for that. For if we do not teach the word of God and demand a strong christian education program in our churches how will our members learn. Do we have a library in our churches, with reference books, do we print biblical factoids in our bulletins? One of the main points of the reform movement was to make knowledge of God accessible to all people. As a pastor I find people are eager to learn about God, if we present interesting bible studies, use trained sunday school teachers.

College is not that hard so for those of you who are thinking about it go! At least try, and that part about elitism, the A.M.E.Church overcame that years ago that is why we have so many universities. Our denomination has a history of valuing education.

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2003

Parson Rogers opined.........

"College is not that hard so for those of you who are thinking about it go!" Hmmm........perhaps the proliferation of grade inflation and reprisals for not requiring excellence for students contributes to the "softness" of college studies. If your college course work does not include differential calculus, physics, economics, literature, inferential statistics or regular research papers in history, philosophy or any of the so-called "Dead Foreign Languages", I might reluctantly agree that college is not hard. However, I can't honestly think of one respected undergraduate major which is not intellectually challenging. If you are fortunate to be admitted into a tier 1 or tier 2 university and you underestimate the enormous expectations thrust upon you, you will be in for a rather rude awakening. College is not for everybody. That is the implication of DuBois's Talented Tenth concept. Taken to its logical extreme, if everybody chose the path of college, who will perform the critical vocational skills needed so that we can enjoy the normal conveniences of our society? When electrical power is out do we call the local Professor of Electrical Engineering or the local electric power company? Vocational and industrial skills, public saftey professionals (policemen, firemen, etc.), public health workers, sanitation workers, Members of the Armed Forces (non-com)etc. are vitally important and should not be trivialized. When your bathroom pipes are dysfunctional or the AC unit in your house is down you will need a specialist who in all likelihood is not a "college man". Last time I checked neither Cornel West, Skip Gates nor bell hooks take part in these type of house calls. A college career is immensely rewarding but we should be realistic in uderstanding the "sorting" function that takes place when students enter. There are meaningful alternatives. QED

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2003

I did my undergraduate work at the College of New Rochelle it is a private catholic college that is a pioneer in developing programs for non-traditional students. As a matter of fact my college has won many national and international awards and Japan has asked my college to help them replicate a program. I took history, science, philosphy etc. And I have two languages under my belt, french and latin, and I am working on learning other languages. The point I want to make is that if someone truly has a desire to go to college and they have the grades to get in they should go! All too often we say no, before others do. Find a school that fits your needs, if you have to work attend a school that offers programs at night. 90 percent of us at my college went on to graduate school. And the program was called "The school of new resources, 99 Percent of us were black and were first generation college students. Out of that 90 percent who went to grad school one third of us went to Ivy League School, I was one of those attending Princeton Seminary and if anyone is wondering if it was affirmative action. I had a 3.8 accum to get in and excellent references. I attended a school that was nurturing, many a night my daughter who was five would come with me from 5 to 10 PM at night, if I could not get a baby sitter, she spent many hours in the library with me. She now is getting ready to go to seminary in 2004. My friends do not let anyone stop you from going after your dream, college may not be for everyone but it might be for you. In the bigger scheme of things college is not that hard. If you study and show up you will do well.

If there is someone who wants to go to college and is afraid please email me and let's see what we can do with God's help. Do not worry about 1st, 2nd tier schools, find a school that fits your needs and is accredited. God will make a way.

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2003

Parson Rogers rejoinder..........

"The point I want to make is that if someone truly has a desire to go to college and they have the grades to get in they should go!" But this is materially different from your earlier point about college not being all that hard. According to your view If a student has a desire and they meet the necessary entry requirements (i.e. grades), they should go to college. If this is true what do you do with the population of students who have a "desire" to attend but do not meet entry requirements? Should basketball phenoms like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnet, Amarie Stoudimier, and now Lebron James pursued college instead of going straight to the NBA upon finishing high school? Given their enormous talents it is pretty clear that playing collegiate basketball would have been a total waste of time. It goes without saying that a colege education is beneficial for most people. I just know from personal experience however that a degree is not THE sine qua non for measuring success in our society. Many successful entrepreneurs have NO formal college training yet they are in a position to create wealth and offer employment opportunities to colege grads. If a high school student indicated that he/she wanted to become the next Larry Ellison or Jack Welch and skip going to college, I say, go for it. I also know that what ever academic credential you decide to pursue it will be mentally and physically challenging, particularly if you are interested in matriculating at the top universities. To revisit my earlier point, our congregations suffer not from a lack of academic credentials or an under-emphasis on higher ed but from spiritual immaturity and low Biblical IQs. Until we correct the latter defects it won't really matter in the long run. QED

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2003