Their has been a lot of questions concerning Church Growth latley and I would like to make a statement concerning growth.I personaly went to a small Church some time ago and in one winter,3 months,65 young people were saved.By being saved I mean repented,and baptized not transferd from another Church. What brought about this growth?In every service Sun.morn,Sun.night and Wed.night,the attendance was neerly 100 percent.Of those that came when we got there we did not socialize and talk we went to the front of the Church and Prayed for lost souls.Also we did not have one "youth party,weiner roast,pizza party or the like" but when a young person was saved they were taught and instructed in the Word.Also the congegation as a whole spent much time in fasting and prayer.The word of God tells us plainly that "now one can come unless the spirit draws" that is the only thing that works. But today it seems the Church as a whole is become what Paul told Timothy "lovers of pleasures more than Lovers of God".Have a "potluck dinner" and every one comes.Have prayer meeting and very few come. Where is our heart? Chuck Williams

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2002

Answers

Hi Chuck,

Could you share with us whether that church sustained this growth and continued with it or not?

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2002

Barry,This Church still has quite a lot of growth considering it is a Church way out in the country.I no longer attend this Church but am good freinds with one of the Elders.He told me that last year they baptized about 35.Many of the 65 that were saved have now become ministers themselves. Chuck Williams

-- Anonymous, October 19, 2002

Chuck, for some strange reason, I was unable to post an answer in the other thread, therefore I am offering the followup here.

Chuck,

I don’t think there was any misunderstanding at all. Once again, by your own definition of what an apostle is, there are no contemporary apostles living in the church of Jesus Christ today, nor have there been any apostles since the death of John. To claim otherwise is to go against what is taught in NT Scripture. There have been many that claim that they are apostles or prophets of God, but they are false and apostate.

As I see it, the problem that you face is that you seem to have a need for a supreme authority figure in the church that can “set the house in order”. Secondly, you hold a very low view of Scripture. Wake up Chuck! The house was set in order nearly 2000 years ago and it is called the NEW TESTAMENT. The Holy Spirit inspired it, the first-century apostles and prophets wrote it, and it continues to be the all-sufficient word of God for our time:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” - 2Timothy 3:16,17

You may say, “but since Christians are not in agreement as to what the NT says and what the NT means, the house continues to be out of order. Therefore, it needs to be put in order by modern-day apostles and prophets”. So what else is new! Not even those who lived in Paul’s day remained faithful to the word that he had received from the Lord:

“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.” Acts 20:29-32

As you can see, this has been going ever since the church was first brought into existence – even when the apostles were living. It is an unavoidable condition of the human heart to distort or manipulate what God has said in order to justify our disobedience and to “draw away disciples” after us. But when Christ comes, He will put the house in order according to His word.

Chuck, your understanding of apostleship places you squarely in the camp of Roman Catholic tradition and of their claim to an unbroken chain of command going all the way back to St. Peter, who supposedly was their first pope. Other groups have made similar claims: the Mormons, the Adventists, and most recently the Manifest Sons of God, the Latter Rain Movement, the Signs and Wonders Movement, and C P Wagner’s New Apostolic Reformation.

Grant it, as one who was once inside the Latter Rain for the space of three years, specifically the Restoration Movement (not the Stone- Campbell version), I can relate with your dilemma. Maybe the following word of the Lord will help get you turned in the right direction:

“And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.” – Luke 22:24-27

Chuck, what we need today is not modern-day apostles and prophets who can exercise lordship over the churches. What we need is humble servant leadership capable of inspiring the flock by example and faithful teaching of God’s word.

-- Anonymous, October 20, 2002