In reading all the posts the last couple of days, both my mother and I have mutually agreed that there seems to be somewhat of a "funk", so to speak, on this forum.

The devil appears to be trying to destroy an excellent forum, by causing us to argue over things that we as Catholics should all agree on.

Therefore - I wanted to interject a prayer thread, where we all can pray openly for eachother so that we may not be seperated through heated discussions, rather, be bonded by deep love and mutual faith in the One Lord, Jesus Christ, and his infallible, everlasting Catholic Church!

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. Amen!

Lord Jesus, through the intercession of the communion of Saints, bring the forum together. Unite in us a Divine Love for you and your Holy Family. Bless MaryLu, Kathy, John, CK, Jackiea, Gail, Carolyn, Fred, Kiwi, Faith, Chris B, David, Mateo (and his new wife!), Brian, Scoobuy, Emerald, Eugene, Enrique, and all those who visit this site. We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen!

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 08, 2002

Answers

(I want to keep this thread pure to your intentions of prayer, Jake... but I also want to respond to it. Please see new thread 'Forum Funk'.)

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world".

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), September 08, 2002.

Hi, Jake.
You wrote: "The devil appears to be trying to destroy an excellent forum, by causing us to argue over things that we as Catholics should all agree on."

As you find time to read through more and more of the archives, you will see that this is no isolated event. Since the beginning of the forum (01/98, I think), the devil has been trying to do this. As "wounded" human beings, still suffering from some effects of original sin, all of us have given in to temptation at times, and we have hurt each other. Much more often than not, though, we have forgiven each other and moved on.

If I had to guess, Jake, I'd say that this latest is about the 50th "funk" in forum history! I don't mean to make light of it, but only to let you know that God will help us out of this one, just like all the rest.

John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 08, 2002.

O God of the prophets, who didst open the eyes of thy servant St. Dominic to perceive a famine of hearing the word of the Lord, and didst move him, and those he did draw about him, to satisfy that hunger with sound preaching and fervent devotion: Make thy Church, dear Lord, in this and every age, attentive to the hungers of the world, and quick to respond in love to those who are perishing; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost,God for ever and ever.

Amen.

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), September 08, 2002.

Don't come here any more, Jake-MSN. You have been banned as an evil-doer. Moderator, please delete the message.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 08, 2002.

Good prayer, jakeMSN!!! I will repeat it over and over again!

-- Isabel (isabel1492@yahoo.com), September 08, 2002.

True Mass
new "mass"

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), September 08, 2002.

Jake@MSN

Why in one thread do you leave Chris Butler a prayer when he is sick and asking for a prayer, and in this thread leave this?

I am sure it is no secret to anyone that Chris is our only Moderator at this time. Jake if he is getting sicker than PLEASE don't make his job harder at this particular time!

There is a time and a place for most things Jake! But now is not the time for you to be doing this.

God bless you

David

-- David (David@excite.com), September 09, 2002.

Plus, Jake, you started this thread with goodwill in mind, and now you're leaving it like this!

Give it a break for awhile, okay?

Love you,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 09, 2002.

Gail,

Two different Jake's.

-- Glenn (glenn@nospam.com), September 09, 2002.

Forgive me for asking, but what are the nuns doing in that picture?

David, perhaps you, Gail or John could answer this for me?

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), September 09, 2002.

Thanks, Glenn, for that clarification!

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 09, 2002.

Hello, Kathy. You asked:
"Forgive me for asking, but what are the nuns doing in that picture?"

Before I answer your question directly, I want to tell you what you are not seeing in that photo:

(1) You are not seeing something common. You are not seeing something that 99% of Catholics in the U.S. ever see. You are seeing women dancing with bowls of burning incense around the main altar of the new cathedral in Los Angeles, which was being dedicated that day.
(2) You are not seeing something licit. The dancing should not have taken place, but the Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles (Roger Mahoney) is unfortunately infamous for being less than fully faithful to the Church's law. Very few bishops would have tolerated this.
(3) You are not seeing something that was part of a Mass. [Jake-MSN, in his typically evil manner, lied about this.]

What the photo depicts is something usually referred to as "sacred dance" or "liturgical dance." The Church has forbidden this activity in North America (and Europe, I believe), because in our cultures, dancing is almost always connected with human romance (at least dating) or with musical entertainment. This makes it inappropriate in a religous context, for it causes confusion in the minds of the congregation.

In certain other cultures (especially Africa and Asia), however, dance has been associated with religion for millennia. In those distant nations, the Church permits limited "sacred dance" to take place in church buildings, even in a dignified way during the liturgy.

What I suspect happened is this ... Cardinal Mahoney is aware of the very large number of Asian immigrants living in his archdiocese -- particularly Vietnamese refugees. Since dance may be used in the land of their birth, the Cardinal probably rationalized (falsely justified) the use of dance at the cathedral's dedication ceremony. I was able to find just this one description of what took place:

"... thick plumes of incense smoke billowed from a large basin set on the altar and rose almost 10 stories to the cathedral's wood ceiling as a sign of prayers going to heaven. Next, twelve sacred dancers —- diminutive Vietnamese nuns in navy blue and white habits —- gracefully glided around the altar and through the cathedral with uplifted bowls of burning incense. The dance by these Vietnamese 'Lovers of the Holy Cross' filled the cathedral with the sweet scent of chrism [holy oil]."

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 09, 2002.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to antagonize by posting that photo. I was expressing my (justifiable, I think) outrage that such a spectacle could take place in a Catholic cathedral under the nose of a Cardinal Archbishop, whether within the context of a Mass or not. I'm glad that it prompted at least one reader to question what was going on.

I don't know whether the dancin' nuns act was actually done within the context of the Mass. Given His Eminence's track record, it would come as no small shock, but I have no hard evidence, no. Relax, John. I had no evil intent.

Pinky swear.

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), September 10, 2002.

jake-msn,

Why is it that you think joining a schismatic group, which discards your Bishops authority, in order to attend the Old Rite is any better that nuns dancing around the alter of the New Rite (not even during mass)?

Either way someone is disobeying the Church’s authority. Is one sin greater than another?

Just a question.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 10, 2002.

alter of the New Rite

Freudian slip? (Just kidding, Jake H.)

I'm not going to allow you to suck me into a fight, although I see the forum has dried up considerably without having me around as a punching bag. I'm not even supposed to be here, so before I stand accused of taking advantage of Chris Butler's unfortunate illness to get a few posts in, I'll bow out. Fire away.

Oh, and I'm leaving for my retreat on Sunday. Please pray for me.

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), September 10, 2002.

Hi John,

Thank you for your reply. I was a bit confused at first where Jake msn put "True Mass" and "New Mass" right next to each other. I now see that "True Mass" was meant for the first picture.

As always, thanks for your response!

God bless you,

-- Kathy (sorry@nomail.com), September 10, 2002.

Thanks for catching that, jake-msn. I hope you understood what I meant (same alter - different Rites).

I hope that that is not what you think I'm trying to do, "suck [you] into a fight". Really, I just wanted to show you what is happening.

May God bless you at the retreat.

In Christ.

-- Jake Huether (jake.huether@lamrc.com), September 10, 2002.

You're welcome, Kathy (as always).

Jake H, please keep in mind that Jake-MSN, Regina, and Isabel were banned from the forum for calling the new rite of the Mass an "abomination" and for other repeated breaking of the Moderator's rules. When they show such further disrespect as to return here despite being banned, we need to ignore them, rather than engage them in conversation. (You are always free to exchange e-mail with them, of course.) If we ignore them, their posts can be cleanly purged by the Moderator, without awkward replies being left behind. (I sometimes forget this myself.)

If I recall correctly, the others banned (besides the three named above) are Fundamentalists named Alex Ruiz, Joel, Susan Magistro. (They haven't been around for quite a while.) Maybe someone will remember another one or two "banish-ees" that I have forgotten.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 14, 2002.

John,

Elmo and Moslon are banned too.

@

-- @ (@@@T@.COM), September 14, 2002.

Thanks, "@".
I just came back to this thread because I thought of those two. For the benefit of Jake H, I'll clarify that you are referring to (1) Joan (nee Elmo) Storey [posting lately as "ss" (apparently the hissing sound of the serpent of Eden)] and (2) the atheist who went by the name Dennis Molson.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 14, 2002.

I got back from my retreat yesterday evening. I took some photos, and I'll put them on the web. When I do, I'll post the url and more details. God bless.

-- jake (jake__@msn.com), September 22, 2002.