Does Bill Hybles teach the true Gospel? You decide!

http://insyderhomielc.com/downloads/issue1.pdf

http://www.crmspokane.org/cgm1.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/billhybels.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/hybels.htm

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hybels/general.htm

-- Anonymous, September 03, 2002

Answers

Phil and to others:

I went to this site: http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hybels/general.htm

I read the first part and then got tired of the alarmist negativism.

The issue that I want to deal with is the idea of Hybels subverting the truth, when after a survey of the people he concluded that people need the truth in amounts they can handle. I don't see the error in this philosophy.

For instance, those of you who have kids might relate to this, when your 2 or 3 year old comes and asks where did I come from, you give the child the truth, in an amount he or she can handle. You don't give a child that small the facts of life in total.

The reason why the RM is so spiritually weak is that, in my opinion, teaching is either over the heads of listeners or it is irrelevant to their lives. Yes, we can make the most relevant thing in all the world, the gospel, irrelevant to people.

When I was at FCC, we took Practical Ministry Seminars - now changed to sunmesters, and I took one on teaching. Bj Fine said you have not taught unless it is caught. I bought into that. If I preach or teach over the head of my listeners or cannot relate the gospel to the lives of the people, then they will never grow. More than likely they wont continue to come.

Even Jesus gave the woman at the well and Nicodemus, the truth in amounts they can handle. Neither got a full theology at one time.

I can't speak to the issue if Bill Hybles is faith only in his view of salvation. But to the issue of trying to bring people to Jesus Christ by making it relevant to their lives, I cannot fault this.

As Phil has espoused that "the social gospel" is evil and wrong. I say, Jesus ate with sinners, Jesus taught with object lessons, Jesus healed the sick, and Jesus took time to bring seekers along, a little at a time. The only issue that I see Jesus had with people is the disposition of their hearts. He welcomed them as long as they were truly seeking. Even the richman he had a small amount of truth for, but his heart was not right and he could not handle more truth.

I do not have the right to judge the disposition of people's hearts, but I have the responsibility to share Jesus with others any way I can, just as Jesus did. IF I need to feed the hungry I will. If I need to preach I will. I will try to do whatever it takes, and if I, like Bill Hybles am criticized because I cared enough about helping people catch it and hold on to it (it=the truth), then I appeal to the grace of God. My service is with a pure heart and true desire to make a difference.

Once last thing, we use the phrase about being with those of like precious faith. But why do we have such fights and disagreements? This is what is destroying the gospel message for many. So many see what we do in negative terms, because we do these negative things.

Our hope to me should be sharing what works. Instead of what is wrong, how about what we are doing right. We are embarking on a new plan where I serve. I'd love to share it with you all.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Phil,

The name is "Hybels" not "Hybles". If you're going to make false accusations against your brother in Christ, at least get the name right.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Bill,

I’ll grant you at least one point; having to read “negative” information about something or someone is never pleasant. Doing background research is both tiring and taxing. Yet, doing enough background research just might have spared us the 9/11 attacks and the ensuing “clean up” war in Afghanistan, do you suppose? Negatives can be alarming at times, but can we afford to ignore the signs? The issues at stake with Mr. Hybels (with apologies to Mr. Barry for the typo) are much more profound than his philosophy of ministry or his faith-only doctrine. Yet, the pragmatists among us just don’t care or have long sense abandoned their love four sound doctrine. In either case, they are stepping outside the boundaries of Scripture.

Your whole approach is classical pragmatism at its best (or worst, depending on which side of the issue you are on). Please allow me to elaborate further, in response to your various affirmations.

1. There were several URL’s given, not just the one you mention. So, there is plenty of information out there for anyone who is willing to look for it.

2. The issue with Hybels is not the amount of truth being dished out, but the quality of the food being served. Hybels, like his mentor Robert S., is a Universalist and he has proven it with his position regarding Islam. But you pragmatists just don’t get it because you worship at the altar of success. SUCCESS is the true god for every pragmatist out there. As you stated, “if it works” – that is your theology and polity all rapped into a neat little package.

3. The RM is not “spiritually week” as you accused. Churches and individuals can be spiritually week, but principles or ideologies are whatever you make of them. I would suggest that it is the pragmatists and the liberals in the RM that are deliberately undermining the movement with their halfhearted praxis. The point is, do we trust the Gospel enough to learn and teach it as is, or do we give in the urge of editing it to fit the crowd.

4. Yes, there is always the danger of teaching over people’s heads – after all, we live in a dumbed-down society. By the way, it is the liberals who have made it so (both in the church as well as in society at large). Hopefully, a responsible teacher will make a serious attempt of helping his pupils come a level or two in their knowledge, not the other way around.

5. I realize how difficult it is to preach an objective historic Gospel in this post-modern era, but the solution is not to manufacture a Gospel that is acceptable to people while we’re in the process of getting people to accept the Gospel.

6. When you say, “Jesus ate with sinners, Jesus taught with object lessons, Jesus healed the sick, and Jesus took time to bring seekers along, a little at a time”, the obvious inference is that those of us who stand for an objective historic Gospel don’t believe in doing those things. If that were true, I wouldn’t be living in Mexico, subjecting my family to the many setbacks of the real missionary life (too many to list here).

7. The criticism directed at Hybels has nothing to do with the disposition of his heart, although Jesus did say that by their fruits you shall know them (and he wasn’t talking about SUCCESS or NUMBERS either). The fruit is a Universalist Gospel. You can figure it out for yourself if you truly love God’s truth.

In closing, the “fights” of which you speak are provoked by those who do not have love for the truth as revealed in the New Testament (Romans 16:17). Light and darkness simply cannot co-exist.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

To one and all,

By the way, I have noticed that no one (not even Mr. Barry) has bothered to address the evidence regarding Mr. Graham’s false Gospel. Could it be that the evidence is much more abundant and obvious in his case? Can we afford to ignore the facts? You decide!

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Here is how the jewish believers see Mr. Hybels:

http://www.moriel.org/discernment/bill_hybels.htm

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Phil and others;

Specifically I was addressing the one area of sharing truth. I was not speaking to his beliefs or doctrine.

But I have this to say about your comments concerning pragmatism. Being pragmatic is not incongruous with Christianity. And please note at least for me, success is not measured by the number of bodies occupying pew space in the assembly. Success is working toward a goal. As long as one is working towards a goal, one is successful. Ergo, I am a success because I press on to the prize. Im sure you can understand.

Having said that God gave us intelligence to find ways to bring people to the truth. That is why I gave all the examples of how Jesus dealt with people. In truth that is my model of pragmatism. If I find a way for me to make disciples at an increased rate of what I formerly could and keep to the truths of the Word, it is pragmatic ergo best that I do it.

Now about Mr. Hybels. I was appalled to read that he invited a muslim into the assembly. I agree that the Islam faith is one of the greatest lies from Hell. I understand the 5 pillars and I understand the threat that these people pose. For centuries their history has been conversion by the sword and there is no difference today.

Bottom line, unless I hear of his repentance of the accepting Islam as congruous with Christianity, I cannot call him my brother. That is sleeping with the enemy. And I am horrified shocked and disappointed that he would do it.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Bill,

You might want to hear the whole story about the Muslim before making judgment. I watched the video. Hybels directly told the Muslim man that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. He was interviewing the Muslim so that the members of his church would be better able to witness to Muslims. I think it was a great idea.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Phil,

Let me put it this way, after having read your "theology", Hybel's and Graham's, I would rather fellowship with the latter two men and study their much more biblically accurate theology than yours. I'm starting to think you're just jealous because your false doctrine isn't winning you any converts.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

For some strange reason, I did not receive any email notice for these later postings. In any case, I would like to direct my response to Bill.

It appears that Mr. Barry seems to have a difficult time refraining from commenting in every single thread I have posted. Maybe WCCC ought to give serious consideration to the possibility of putting Mr. Barry on their payroll. One would tend to think that he feels compelled to defend Hybels and Graham at whatever the cost. I highly doubt that WCCC’s lawyers could do a better job of countering each and every criticism directed toward Hybels than Mr. Barry has so far.

Bill, maybe you don’t have any problems with the philosophy of pragmatism (at least as you have defined it in your post), but your definition of pragmatism is not exactly what I read in Webster’s Dictionary:

pragmatism \'prag-me-,ti-zem\ n (ca. 1864) 1 : a practical approach to problems and affairs 2 : an American movement in philosophy founded by C. S. Peirce and William James and marked by the doctrines that the meaning of conceptions is to be sought in their practical bearings, that the function of thought is to guide action, and that truth is preeminently to be tested by the practical consequences of belief _ pragmatist \-me-tist\ adj or n _ pragmatistic \,prag-me-'tis-tik\ adj

And Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia:

PRAGMATISM, philosophical doctrine, developed by the 19th-century American philosophers Charles Sanders Peirce, William James, and others, according to which the test of the truth of a proposition is its practical utility; the purpose of thought is to guide action; and the effect of an idea is more important than its origin. Pragmatism was the first independently developed American philosophy. It opposes speculation on questions that have no practical application. It asserts that truth is relative to the time, place, and purpose of investigation and that value is as inherent in means as in ends. The American philosopher and educator John Dewey developed pragmatism into a new philosophy, instrumentalism. The British philosopher Ferdinand Canning Scott Schiller(1864-1937) and the French philosopher Henri Louis Bergson contributed to the development of pragmatism. Like the older utilitarianism, pragmatism presents a working philosophy for the natural sciences. Many similarities have been noted between pragmatism and Sophist ideas.

In both cases, the philosophy of pragmatism in the very antithesis of objective revelation. It has nothing to do with goal-setting or anything else that you mentioned.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

I can’t help but notice that no one has dared to address my post on Graham. I wonder why…

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Phil;

Notice the first definition you gave from webster's dictionary:

pragmatism \'prag-me-,ti-zem\ n (ca. 1864) 1 : a practical approach to problems and affairs

This charactizes my very attitude, what is the most practical way we can get something done.

What I see about you is that you will find every way to prove that you are right, even though you disregard that which shows you are wrong.

To wit, I went to one of your URL's and I found something that made me sick. The site said Hybels allowed a muslim to preach in the assembly. But when further inquiry is made, it was an interview and Hybels was adamant that the only way to be saved was through Jesus Christ. Further, if he is having literally 1,000's to be immersed, it is hard for me to immediately dismiss the man because you say so. And it is harder still for me to accept your opinion for 2 reasons. 1) most of your accusations and statements are second hand - somebody told you. 2) I repeat what I said earlier, most if not every thread you respond to, you ARE right. No matter what, you ARE right. I can only reply with a line from a movie, how does it feel to be so right all the time?

Phil, talk in terms of wanting to grow and wanting to fellowship as opposed to being the law to lay down for everybody.

Paul says in ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. I entreat you to keep unity by dialogue not monologue. I agree with some of the points you make, but I cannot stand by your attitudes. If you accept some of what I say here, you might find that more would come to your POV if your spirit and attitude were different and not so willing to attack.

I wish nothing but blessing for you and your ministry.

-- Anonymous, September 06, 2002

Bill,

I am sorry if I came across as being unloving or uncharitable in any way.

Of course I am not 100% right, though I strive to get closer to the mark each in every day. I don’t expect Bill Hybels to be right on every issue either, though I do expect him to uphold the true Gospel of Christ and the sound teaching of His apostles as it is found in the Scriptures. If the questions that I have raised have given you a different impression, I sincerely apologize. The last thing I want be in this life is an arrogant jerk. What drives me? The love of God and Christ His Son; the love for His true Church; the love for my fellow man; the love for God’s objective revelation; and the love for a dying sinful world.

Allow me to be so bold as to assure you that what I have pointed out concerning Hybels is true, and that time will prove it. As Robert Schuller’s protégé, he is prone to blow his cover wide open sooner or later. Unlike Schuller, however, Hybels is much more astute. What Mr. Barry points out concerning the Muslim incident is nothing more than clever on-the-fly damage control on Hybels’ behalf. Of course, Mr. Barry would shout, “PROVE IT!”. But that would take a lot of doing that would require both time and resources that I simply do not have. Therefore, until I have had an opportunity to back up what I have said with “first-hand” information, I will have to rest my case for the time being. If Mr. Barry wants to lead the way down the slippery slope, who am I to stop him?

-- Anonymous, September 06, 2002

Phil....

If you would check the archives you would see that the "Billy Graham" horse has been beaten to death.

-- Anonymous, September 06, 2002

Thank you Danny. Mine was more of a rhetorical question though.

You see, liberals and so-called progressives often find refuge in the unproven and the unknown. As Roger Chambers so aptly said “trend- fighters don’t have the luxury of clear targets”. It takes spiritual discernment on behalf of the individual Bible student to discover the subtleties of the opponent. What has especially weighed heavy on my heart is the other warning he gave us: “there is no way we are going to win this war”. Then he went on to share his heart as to what motivated him to be a part of the battle – i.e. his love for the next generation of the church. That is where I want to be when the Lord comes, fighting the battle for the next generation.

Sooner or later, Antichrist will set up his one-world church/ religion and I am afraid that it will be much sooner than most of us expect. The question is, will we have the enough sense to discern the difference between true believers and the apostate church? Christ said that if those days were not cut short, even the elect would be deceived. Unfortunately, I am convinced that many among the CC & COC have already been deceived or are in the process of being duped by the false prophets of our day. As long as I live, I will continue to do battle against the forces of darkness that manifest themselves in the form of the latest trend or wind of doctrine.

I confess that I do not possess all the tools needed to fight this war alone. It will take guys like you, Scott, et. al. to help clear the air of doctrinal confusion and dismay. The longer we wait to distance ourselves from the slippery-slope groupies among us, the harder it will be to weed them out later on. This is not sectarianism, as I have been accused of. Rather, it is mere survival – common sense, if you would. May God speed the day for the sake of our children and our children’s children.

-- Anonymous, September 06, 2002

Phil,

I'm not sure which is worse, being called a "slippery-slope groupie" or finding out that you're a dispensationalist! While you're looking for your "one-world" religion, I'll continue with my focus of winning people to Christ.

-- Anonymous, September 06, 2002

Mr. Barry evidently doesn’t have the slightest idea of what dispensationalism is. He seems to confuse the term with premillennialism, as do many other postmillennialists and amillennialists. In order to be a dispensationalist, one has to believe in a pre-trib rapture (which I categorically deny) and have a dispensationalist view of Biblical history. Since I do not believe in any of these two, I am not a dispensationalist. In fact, I have stated clearly in other posts that I am a POST-tribulationist, i.e. the rapture and second coming take place AFTER the 7-year tribulation period. Mr. Barry is just trying to obfuscate me because he is infuriated by my position on Mr. Hybels’ compromise of the Gospel. Mr. Barry seems to be stumbling all over his little ego trip as he tries to discredit both me and other conservative brethren who have already stated their case in this forum. He is taking pot shots at me instead of repenting of his arrogant and compromising ways like he should. He says “I'm not sure which is worse, being called a "slippery-slope groupie" or finding out that you're a dispensationalist! While you're looking for your "one-world" religion, I'll continue with my focus of winning people to Christ”. This silly statement has to be the epitome of self-righteous liberal thinking. He is trying to build up a straw man by suggesting that I’m not focused on winning people to Christ. If that were true of him, he wouldn’t be wasting his time ranting and raving in this forum! Instead, he would be out there on the streets and in people’s homes preaching the Gospel like I do. The only reason that I have even bothered to come back here is because I felt the issue was important enough to devote an extra effort to it. Apparently, I was wrong.

Mr. Barry is not only a slippery-slope groupie; he is also leading others into the arms of the one-world Antichrist religion by his compromising ecumenism. He and others like him can adopt an ostrich theology if they want to but that doesn’t change the facts. I suppose that he is going to tell us the God has not preserved the Jews during the past 2000 years, as promised. I suppose that he is going to tell us that the return of the Jews to Israel and the many other extraordinary events that are occurring in the Middle East are totally inconsequential and prophetically insignificant. I suppose that he is going to tell us that the church will eventually triumph over evil and take dominion over the world before the Lord’s return. Anyway, my purpose in these posts was not to discuss eschatology but apostasy in the church. If anyone of my conservative-minded brethren would care to carry on a conversation on this subject, I am certainly willing to oblige.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Jim Dethmar of Willow Creek says, "Change only occurs when there is significant disillusionment with the status quo. This is 'Change Theory' ". So, that is what begins to happen. Tearing down subtly begins. Jim Dethmar gives a suggestion on how to do this when he says, "...a simplified view of how to do change is find something that is wrong, it might be a little one, and rub it raw, irritate it". {Willow Creek Seminar Tape} And so the "rub" begins.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Bill Hybels, a forerunner of the CGM and pastor of Willow Creek Community Church says that, "The messages must have high user value... When unchurched Harry comes out here for a service, he's going to be asking, 'What value does my being here have for my life?' So in preparing messages, we keep asking ourselves, 'So what? Jesus Christ was born to a virgin - so what?' That's the question Harry's going to be asking."

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

According to Bill Hybles, drama and music can lower a person's resistance to persuasion, which enables him to communicate the message "...through the back door. People don't even know it's happening."

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Jim Dethmar of Willow Creek said of the CGM model, "Changing to the Willow Creek model is not something you do because you want to or because you think its a good idea. Its something you do because you have to... you are compelled". (Willow Creek Seminar Tape)

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Phil; Here are your posts and I can't understand what your beef is.

You say: Jim Dethmar of Willow Creek says, "Change only occurs when there is significant disillusionment with the status quo. This is 'Change Theory' ". So, that is what begins to happen. Tearing down subtly begins. Jim Dethmar gives a suggestion on how to do this when he says, "...a simplified view of how to do change is find something that is wrong, it might be a little one, and rub it raw, irritate it". {Willow Creek Seminar Tape} And so the "rub" begins.

I say:

I agree with his definition of change. So what is the problem. Are you against change? If you are, you battling and irresistible force. Change is inevitable in every area of life that I have seen for good or bad, save only the truth of the Gospel.

You say: Bill Hybels, a forerunner of the CGM and pastor of Willow Creek Community Church says that, "The messages must have high user value... When unchurched Harry comes out here for a service, he's going to be asking, 'What value does my being here have for my life?' So in preparing messages, we keep asking ourselves, 'So what? Jesus Christ was born to a virgin - so what?' That's the question Harry's going to be asking."

I say: Do you mean you preach and could care less if you are clear to your listeners and or it does not matter if they can relate to how it applies to their lives? I take a what ever it takes attitude to the pulpit. Whatever it takes, I will do it help my listeners better understand the truth of the gospel. Seems this was a technique of Jesus, using object lessons to help the people understand.

You say: According to Bill Hybles, drama and music can lower a person's resistance to persuasion, which enables him to communicate the message "...through the back door. People don't even know it's happening."

I say: Front door, back door or even side door, what difference does it make, if people are prepared for the gospel. Don't we do it in our worship services. We plan our worship so that people are ready to listen to the sermon. He just does a little more. I still don't get your gripe.

Bottom line: read the Christian Standard that is coming out for September 15 or 22. It is the NACC edition. The article about the president's sermon was excellent.

We agree on essentials - there must be unity, non-essentials there is liberty and in all things love.

What this means to me is that we have to define, what is essential, e.g repent and be baptized. Then accept if it is not immoral and it is not against scripture and can be used for helping people to grow. And if we disagree, we do it in love - sans pejoratives.

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Phil,

Thanks for the quotes. You have just shown that what Bill Hybels teaches is great and thoroughly biblical. Amen. Thanks for the boost!

IHS,

-- Anonymous, September 11, 2002

Foundation Magazine for May-June 1990 quotes from an article about Hybels' church which appeared in USA WEEKEND for April 13-15,1990 under the byline of Cindy Yorks. Yorks said the following:

To attract churchgoers today, you’ve got to please the consumer That means high-tech entertainment, Day care, Self help groups- No pleas for money. No Bible- thumping. Happy customers from California to Maryland are eating up 'fast-food religion' this Easter

Foundation goes on to say.

The article describes a service at Willow Creek as 'a stick, show-biz service where drama and soft rock are served up on a stage washed in pink and blue spotlights. A soft-sell sermon is delivered by Hybels from a Lucite lectern...'

The author of the article acknowledges the fact that people attending the services there 'will not be bored as a combination of drama, humor and pop music is presented with no archaic hymns.’ And, she likens the church building to 'a 4,500 seat theatre complete with 12 big screen TV’s showing close-ups of action on stage just like at Rock Concerts.' Billy Graham’s Grason Press is pushing Hybels' latest book. Many evangelical pastors are rushing to Hybels for instructions in implementing his worldly programs in their own churches.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

1. A VERY GOOD DECEPTION STRIVING FOR NUMERICAL SUCCESS – SEEKER SENSITIVE PROGRAM

Many Church leaders have attended seminars run by Bill Hybels (49) who is the Senior Pastor of Willow Creek Church which achieves numerical success through it's popular Seeker Sensitive program. Bill Hybels strategy involves polling unbelievers and promoting tolerance within Seeker Sensitive congregations. His mentor is Dr Robert Schuller, who has a special wing in his Church for Muslims to worship in. Hybels has made frequent monthly visits to the White House to meet with then President Bill Clinton .The following quotes give some insight into the Seeker Sensitive program:

STRATEGY "We have put a lot of time and thought into 'what non-churched people want' from a Sunday morning service. And we have concluded that they basically want four things: (1) anonymity; (2) truth presented at an introductory level; (3) time to 'make a decision'; and (4) 'excellence in programming', creativity, humor, contemporary [worship], relevancy, etc." (Source: Bill Hybels' 1990 message: "Who We Are at Willow Creek.")

POLLING "Take a poll of lost people, find out what they want in religion, then make an all out effort in the church to provide what they want. Real Bible believers do not follow the polls to find out what sinners want, they go to the Bible to find out what sinners need. They get their message from the Bible, not from George Barna [or from George Gallup, polling organisation]" (Source: 1/96, Plains Baptist Challenger, p. 5).

CONGREGATIONAL TOLERANCE "The Willow Creek Association through its member churches have in effect silenced the Body Of Christ and provided pagans, new-agers, atheists, socialists, communists, Marxists, humanists, homosexuals, feminists and liberals in general thousands of sterilized venues where they can come and present their 'felt needs' to those with open arms and open minds. By meeting the so-called 'felt needs' of the godless, THEIR voices are heard, THEIR philosophies are made known, THEIR music is played, THEIR religion is taught, THEIR ideologies are discussed and THEIR agenda is carried out virtually unopposed in the corridors, classrooms and worship centers of every 'seeker sensitive' church in America."

(Source: Christian Review Articles, USA) [ Original copy by Paul Proctor, watchman@usa.com, out of a publication called "Etherzone", www.etherzone.com/2000/proc110900.html, ""Willow Creek (part 3) ..Converting Christianity"" -ed ]

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

CHO AND HYBELS JOIN SCHULLER—Korean pastor David Yonggi Cho and Willow Creek mega-church pastor Bill Hybels are part of the faculty in Robert Schuller's 1/96 Institute for Successful Church Leadership. Schuller's self-esteem message of "possibility thinking" waters down the gospel, yet he with his Crystal Cathedral and Hour of Power is the most-watched TV preacher.

Source:http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/11-1-95.html

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

"The Man Who Inspired Hybels

Bill Hybels proudly gives Dr. Gilbert Bilezikian the credit for inspiring him to build the Willow Creek ministry. This French born professor did his undergraduate work at the University of Paris. Then he enrolled at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, where he received a Master of Divinity degree.

While Gordon-Conwell is named after two great men, it is a hotbed of new-evangelicalism and modernism. Gordon and Conwell would flip over in their graves, if they knew how their names were being used.

After pastoring for five years in Albany, New York, Bilezikian moved on to teach in Wheaton College. (This is another hot bed of new- evangelicalism, and a synonym for compromise.) After accepting the presidency of a Christian college in Beirut, Lebanon, he returned to the United States in 1971. He soon joined the staff of Trinity College in Deerfield, Illinois (another school of compromise). It was there that he indoctrinated Bill Hybels into this new kind of ministry.

Robert Schuller Also Inspired Hybels

No doubt Robert Schuller, pastor of the Crystal Cathedral, Garden Grove, California, has had a tremendous influence on Hybels. Schuller with his perpetual grin, can be seen on many television stations nationwide. He believes that self-esteem is the new reformation, and wrote a book to prove it. On page 15 of his book he declares "Self- Esteem" and "Self-Love" are the same thing. His theology and his message are a thousand miles from being biblical. The gospel he preaches would not save a fly, much less a sinner.

We shall give some quotes from "Rediscovering Church," by Lynne and Bill Hybels which clearly show the relationship between Hybels and Schuller. "In April he (Hybels) read Robert Schuller's book Your Church Has Real Possibilities, which affirmed Bill's belief that one could reach unchurched people through the local church." (P. 51) "During the latter years of Son City and the early years of Willow Creek, Bill (Hybels) traveled periodically as a consultant to youth groups. One group with whom he had an ongoing relationship was the high school Youth group at Garden Grove Community Church in Garden Grove, California (now the Crystal Cathedral)." (P. 68) This is Robert Schuller's Church.

"DIVINE ENCOUNTER. In the fall of 1976, Bill (Hybels) took another trip to Garden Grovethis time to take the staff, module directors, and other lay leaders of Willow Creek to a pastors conference there. During the conference, our entire entourage somehow ended up in Robert Schuller's office which at that time was in the upper floors of the Tower of Prayer. Bill told Dr. Schuller about our efforts to establish a church for the unchurched and about our seeker services and about our tentative plans to buy land for a future building. Bill asked Dr. Schuller if he could give us any advice regarding our next step.

"Dr. Schuller answered, `If you give God a thimble, perhaps He will choose to fill it. If you give God a five-gallon bucket, perhaps He will choose to fill that. If you give him a fifty-gallon drum, perhaps He will choose to do something extraordinary and fill even that. If God chooses to do a miracle, you'd better be ready for it. Don't buy a thimbleful of land. Buy a fifty-gallon drum.'" (P. 69)

They go on to tell us that Schuller was highly esteemed by them. "Had we been `puffed up' with the affirmation offered us by a man so highly esteemedthe only credible adult who had given us any encouragement?

"As I look back through the years I can't help but think that what happened that day was exactly what we thought it was at the time: a divinely staged encounter. We returned home changed." (P. 69)

Schuller Raises Funds For Hybels

"On a Saturday night in June 1977, Robert Schuller graciously came and spoke at our fund- raising banquet in the ballroom of the Sheraton Hotel in Des Plaines, Illinois...Dr. Schuller affirmed the value and potential of the dream to the 1,000 people who attended." (P. 70)

Hybels, Schuller Relationship Continues

Down through the years the relationship between Hybels and Schuller has continued. They have spoken in each others churches on a number of occasions. A few months ago, we published an article from the Calvary Contender, which stated that Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and John Maxwell had spoken at a conference at Robert Schuller's Church, and that homosexuals were there for training. Bill Mosley, a veteran preacher who is a member of Tabernacle Baptist Church in Lubbock, wrote Hybels asking about this. He received the following reply.

Reply From Willow Creek Association

Regarding your recent correspondence: Bill Hybels never attended or spoke at any conference for gay and lesbian pastors. In fact, Bill, Rick Warren, and John Maxwell have never done a conference together anywhere in the world, let alone the Crystal Cathedral.

This is an ugly rumor and I pray that you'll pass on the accurate information to other parties that might inquire. Thank you for checking with us first.

In Christ,

Paul Braoudakis Communications Director Willow Creek Association

Brother Mosley gave me a copy of the above letter from Paul Braoudakis. Then he wrote to the editor of the Calvary Contender who stood by his report. He had received his information from a pro- homosexual paper which clearly stated that over 100 people from the Metropolitan Community Church went to this Institute at Schuller's Church for training. It is possible that Hybels did not know that the homosexuals were there, since they would have been a small part of those in attendance. I am sure that Schuller would have known since they registered from the Metropolitan Church.

Mr. Paul Braoudakis of Willow Creek Association in the above letter said, "In fact, Bill (Hybels), Rick Warren, and John Maxwell have never done a conference together anywhere in the world, let alone the Crystal Cathedral." This gentleman, either lied or said this through ignorance.

When I read this, I went to the public library and looked at copies of Christianity Today on microfilm. I found the ad that I was looking for in the September 16, 1996 issue. That issue of CT contained a full page ad for "The Robert H. Schuller Institute for Successful Church Leadership." This meeting was to take place on January 27-30, 1997, and the pictures of the speakers were printed in the ad. The pictures and names found in the top row include, Robert H. Schuller, Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and John Maxwell, along with others. These the same people of which Paul Braoudakis, Communications Director for Willow Creek Association said, "Bill Hybels never attended or spoke at any conference for gay and lesbian pastors. In fact, Bill, Rick Warren, and John Maxwell have never done a conference together anywhere in the world, let alone the Crystal Cathedral."

This shows you just how far these people will go to cover up their sin of compromise.

What Kind Of Churches Are In The Willow Creek Association?

There are more than 2,200 churches in the WCA world wide. They are listed on the World Wide Web page for the WCA. They claim that 70 denominations and 15 countries are represented in the WCA. Here is a list of some of the denominations represented and the percentage that they make up in the WCA.

22% Baptist 8% Methodist 6% Reformed 5% Presbyterian 4% Lutheran 3% Evangelical Free 3% Assembly of God 2% Seventh-day Adventist 2% Christian Missionary Alliance 14% Other (60+ denominations) 31% Non-denominational

Why would any Baptist church, much less a fundamental independent Baptist Church want to be a member of an association that contains such unscriptural member churches? Each church pays $249.00 per year to be a member.

I have before me an application form for churches to fill out if they want to join the WCA. On the line for the Senior Pastor's title which is to be circled, it says, "Senior Pastor: (Circle) DR. REV. MR. MRS. MISS MS."

There you have it proclaimed that the Senior Pastor can be a "Mrs. Miss or MS." Then there is a affirmation to be signed, which reads as follows, "Affirmation: Please enclose your church's statement of faith which clearly affirms your commitment to an evangelical Christian faith." Please tell E. L. Bynum how Seventh-day Adventists (cult), and many of these liberal churches can be declared to be evangelical. Whoever reads these applications must wear dark rose colored glasses and be very, very broad minded.

Shocking Members Of WCA In Missouri

The High Street Baptist Church, Springfield, MO, is a member of Hybels apostate WCA. This has been one of the most prominent churches in the Baptist Bible Fellowship International. Curiously on Hybels' Willownet web page High Street is listed as being a member of the Southern Baptist Convention. I wanted to know whether this was true or not, so I called the Church. A polite lady answered the phone, and I asked her if High Street was in the SBC. She said, "no," but when I told her it was listed as SBC on the Willownet, she said she would go and see whether they were in the SBC. Moments later she returned and said they were not in the SBC, but that they were Independent and Fundamental. This Church was the place where the Baptist Bible College met in 1950, until they got their own buildings built. It is dis turbing to find a Church with a long history of being fundamentalist, now being in the Willow Creek Association (WCA).

Other churches and organizations in Springfield, MO that are in the WCA are: Christian Community Church, Interdenominational; Gateway Christian Church, Disciples of Christ; India Leadership Institute, Assemblies of God; Baptist Student Union, Southern Baptist Convention. I wonder if High Street Baptist Church ever gets together with the other members of the Association they belong to? If they do, they get to fellowship with Interdenominationlists, Disciples of Christ (Campbellites with pianos), Assembly of God, and Southern Baptist. Why not? They are already in the same Association together.

Shocking Members Of WCA In Texas

Southwest Baptist Church, in Amarillo, TX is a member of WCA, and they are listed as Independent Baptist on the Willownet. (Makes me want to stop calling myself an Independent Baptist). This Church is listed as being a member of the Baptist Bible Fellowship. Other churches in Amarillo that are members of WCA are: Saint Stephen Church, United Methodist; Pinnacle Community Church, Interdenominational. How any United Methodist church could be considered to be "evangelical," is a mystery to me. The United Methodist Church is one of the greatest apostate organizations on the top side (or bottom side) of the earth. The good people at Southwest Baptist Church must rejoice knowing that they are in the same Association with Saint Stephen Church, United Methodist.

Shocking Members of WCA In Florida

New Testament Baptist Church, Miami, Florida is a member of WCA, and they are promi nent members of the Baptist Bible Fellowship. I believe that this huge Church was started by Al Janney, a man I went to Bible school with for a few months. Other churches in Miami that are in the WCA are as follows: Colusa Community Church, Interdenominational; Jesus Fellowship Church, Interdenominational; and New Community Seventh-day Aventist Church, 7th Day Adventist. If all these WCA members in Miami decide to get together and fellowship, they can't do it on Saturday. The Adventist are going to be busy elsewhere.

First Baptist Church, West Hollywood, Florida Ardella Baptist Church, Lakeland, Florida

Other BBF Churches In The WCA

First Baptist Church, Redondo Beach California Liberty Baptist Church, Kansas City, Kansas Falls Baptist Temple, Munroe Falls, Ohio Capital Baptist Church, Annandale, VA Pilgrim Baptist Church, Waukesha, WI

There are a number of other BBF churches that belong to the WCA. There are many others who have adopted the methods of Bill Hybels, but have not joined his WCA. Where are you, Noel Smith, when we need you?

GARBC Churches In The WCA

I will list only a few churches of the General Association of Regular Baptists, who are mem bers of the Hybels' WCA.

Grace Baptist Church, Eureka, CA Blackhawk Baptist Church, Fort Wayne, Ind.

For many years Dr. Robert T. Ketcham was the influential leader of the GARBC. He fought against modernism and compromise. He has been dead for a number of years, and the GARBC has steadily declined under other leaders. If he knew what was taking place, he would be very distressed. There are other GARBC churches that we shall not list.

Conservative Baptist In The WCA

The following Conservative Baptist Churches are listed in the WCA directory.

Prospect Heights Baptist Church, Rolling Meadows, IL Grace Baptist Church, Mahomet, IL Calvary Baptist Church, Muscatine, Iowa Arcade Baptist Church, Sacramento, CA First Baptist Church, San Jose, CA First Baptist Church, Aspen, CO Ridgefield Baptist Church, Ridgefield, Conn.

The word "Conservative" should be a glorious word, but such churches listed here disgrace the name "Conservative Baptist."

American Baptist Churches In The WCA

The American Baptist Convention is one the greatest apostate denominations in existence today. They are in the National Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches. They are well represented in the WCA. The most notable ABC church in the WCA is the Riverside Church, New York City, NY. This Church was pastored by the notorious Harry Emerson Fosdick, the dean of apostates in his time. Just remember, every church in the WCA is in there along with the Riverside Church.

Church of Christ And Others

Numerous churches of the Church of Christ (salvation by water) denomination are in the WCA. This includes the Church of Christ, Glendora, CA. Church of God churches are in it, as well as many, many Southern Baptist Convention churches. The whole Georgia Baptist Convention is in the WCA. Presbyterian, Lutheran, Reformed, and many other false churches are in the WCA.

Independent Baptists In WCA

A number of churches in the WCA are listed as Independent Baptist. These include the Grace Baptist Church, Normal, IL, as well as several others. Since I do not know what brand of Independent Baptist they are, we shall just call them the Compromising Independent Baptists. It is interesting that the Sonrise Community Baptist Church, Spring Valley, CA, is listed as Independent Evangelical. The First Baptist Church, Modesto, CA, is listed as Interde nominational. They should just drop the name Baptist as well. The following churches are listed as Independent Baptists.

Hopevale Memorial Baptist Church, Saginaw, Mich. Calvary Baptist Church, Hazel Park, Mich.

There are some Independent Unaffiliated Baptist churches that are using some of the material and methods of Hybels' WCA. These are historic Independent Baptist churches which once stood for the faith. They have chosen Hybels' way of compromise without joining his WCA.

The Impending Disaster Of Spiritual Fornication

Sometimes a sweet pure church going girl meets a young man and falls for him. He is not religious, but is charming and very knowing about what he is doing. He has seduced many other young women in the same way. After a while his charm and appeal works its wiles on the girl. This results in their going to bed together, and she contracts AIDS or some other sexual disease, which will follow her all the rest of her life. Medical doctors say that when she went to bed with him, it is as if she had slept with all his previous sexual partners, and with all of the partners of their partners. She thought she was going to bed with one boy, but it is as if she had slept with dozens of other people as well.

The same thing takes place when pure churches join up with compromising apostate churches in any kind of an organization like Hybels' WCA. Not only are these church corrupted, but they corrupt the other churches in the organizations like the BBF that they belong to.

Churches Commit Fornication

If you doubt that statement, listen to the following Scripture. And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Revelation 17:1-5) (Emphasis ours).

Please note that the above passage refers to the Harlot One World Church of the end time. It is made up of the Roman Catholic Church and her apostate Protestant daughters. She is a harlot, and she commits fornication with the kings of the earth. This is spiritual fornication. This Harlot Church is now being formed, as we see Protestant churches hopping in bed with the Catholic Church. Even weak kneed compromising Baptist churches are involved with that.

I do not know how much Bill Hybels is involved with the Roman Catholic Church, or the World Council of Churches. One thing is clear, he is in bed with many churches who are in the World Council of Churches. He is involved with Church of Christ, Church of God, and 7th Day Adventist churches. He is deeply involved with Robert Schuller of the Crystal Cathedral. Baptist churches that are in Hybels' WCA, or who are using his materials and methods, are involved in a form of spiritual fornication. This will spread the disease of compromise, just like AIDS and other sexual diseases are being spread today.

Churches of the BBF, GARB, and Conservative Baptists are in organizations that have churches in the WCA. Your church may not be in the WCA, yet if you are in these organizations, you are involved in this web of compromise. This spiritual fornication is going to spread the disease of compromise to your church. It may be slow, but it will affect your ministry and your church. Why not obey the Scripture? "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. (2 Cor. 6:14-17)

How To Tell When A Church Is Caught In The Hybels Web

A church that is caught in the web may be doing all or part of the following. Such churches may be using dance and drama. They may feature Christian Rock music, and multi-media slide shows. Hybels' Church has no altar, no choir, organ, hymnals or song books. A Chicago sociologist said Hybels preaches a very upbeat message - "a salvationist message, but the idea is not so much saved from the fires of hell. Rather, it's being saved from meaningless and aimlessness in this life. It's more of a soft sell." (Plains Baptist Challenger, January 1996).

Hybels' Willow Creek Community Church bears no denominational affiliation in its name. This is what Lee Strobel the teaching pastor of Hybels' Church says that churches ought to do. "Churches should consider dropping the denominational affiliation from their name in certain instances." He goes on to say, "some denominational churches have started using community church in their titles, which is generally well-received by Harry since it suggests local involvement and community ties." ("Inside The Mind Of Unchurched Harry & Mary," by Lee Strobel, Zondervan Publishing House, page 68).

Churches that are caught in the Hybels web, will likely conduct a Seekers Service on Sunday Morning. It may be called by some other name, but the object is to have enough worldly entertainment to make an unsaved man or woman feel comfortable. WCA churches may from time to time feature comedians in their services.

The Willow Creek Community Church has large crowds and so do many of the churches in the WCA. It may look successful to the religious world, but how does it look to God? Churches that go this route will find Ichabod written over the door. And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband. (1 Samuel 4:21"

Source:http://www.llano.net/baptist/webofwca.htm

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

"What's wrong with "progressive creation?" By AIG Executive Director, Ken Ham

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The "progressive creation" view of Dr. Hugh Ross on how to interpret the book of Genesis has received wide publicity and endorsement from many well-known Christian leaders, churches, seminaries, and Christian colleges.

This brief summary of only some of these teachings is meant to familiarize Christians with aspects of the "Rossist" position, including some that are not so well-known. We need to judge these against the absolutes of God's Word to see "whether these things were so. "(Acts 17:11)

While Dr. Ross is NOT an evolutionist per se, he does accept much of what evolutionists teach in astronomy and geology. We do not seek to pass judgment on his Christian character or commitment to the Lord.

In summary, progressive creation/Rossism teaches:

The "Big Bang" origin of the universe occurred 16-billion-years ago; death, bloodshed, and disease existed before Adam & Eve

The days of Creation were long periods

Noah's Flood was a local event

Sin has only a regionally limited effect on the world

Man-like creatures that behaved much like us -- and painted on cave walls -- existed before Adam and Eve, but didn't have a spirit and thus had no salvation

The record of nature is just as perfect as the Word of God

Over millions of years, God create new species as others kept going extinct.

Endorsements of Ross's teachings and/or his publications have been given by many including: James Dobson, Focus on the Family; Bill Hybels, Willow Creek Community Church; Dr. Ralph Winter, U.S. Center for World Mission; R.C. Sproul, Ligonier Ministries; Norman L. Geisler, Southern Evangelical Seminary; Bill Bright and other leaders from Campus Crusade for Christ; Earl D. Radmacher, Western Conservative Baptist Seminary.

Publisher: Dr. Ross's books are published by NAVPRESS, the publishing arm of the Navigators. They stated in a press release: "We consider it our privilege and our calling to stand behind Hugh Ross with our support as his publisher."

Progressive Creation/Rossism teachings

(The following quotes are all taken from lectures or publications by Dr. Ross)

1. Concerning the creation of life in the universe: "It only works in a cosmos of a hundred-billion trillion stars that's precisely sixteen- billion-years old. This is the narrow window of time in which life is possible.

"Therefore it allows me to make an interesting paraphrase of John 3:16, if you'll permit - For God so loved the human race that He went to the expense of building a hundred-billion trillion-stars and carefully shaped and crafted them for sixteen-billion years so that at this brief moment in time we could all have a nice place to live. " (Dallas Theological Seminary Chapel Service, September 13, 1996).

Our Comment: Read John 3:16 for yourself and compare it to the above!

Also: "Life is only possible when the universe is between 12 and 17 billion years." (Toccoa Falls Christian College, Staley Lecture Series, March 1997)

Comment: God is omnipotent - He could make a fully functional universe ready for life right from the beginning, for with God nothing is impossible. (See Matt. 19:26; Mark 10:27; Luke 7:1)

2. Dr. Ross defending his belief that Noah's Flood was only local: "But here are some reasons why, physical reasons why, the flood cannot be global Number one is the limited extent of sin. Given that human beings had not yet civilized and inhabited Antarctica, there'd be no need for God to flood Antarctica because there'd be no sin there in Antarctica.

"There'd be no need for God to kill off all the penguins because those penguins had no contact with reprobate humanity And in that case, I don't think Noah took any penguins on board the ark. ..Only bird and mammal species, according to the Levitical Law, can be impacted by sin." (Toccoa Falls Christian College, Staley Lecture Series, March 1997)

Comment: Read Genesis 6:19-20. The Bible clearly states here that all kinds of land animals - including penguins - were on the ark. By the way, most penguins live in other pasts of the world, including the Galapagos Islands near the Equator!

3. Dr. Ross defining what he calls the "sixty-seventh book of the Bible":

"Not everyone has been exposed to the sixty-six books of the Bible, but everyone on planet Earth has been exposed to the sixty-seventh book - the book that God has written upon the heavens for everyone to read.

'And the Bible tells us it's impossible for God to lie, so the record of nature must be just as perfect, and reliable and truthful as the sixty-six books of the Bible that is part of the Word of God.. .And so when astronomers tell us [Ross uses the example of scientists attempting to measure distances in space and goes on to say that] it's part of the truth that God has revealed to us. It actually encompasses part of the Word of God." (Toccoa Falls Christian College, Staley Lecture Series March 1997).

Comment: Indeed God cannot lie, so when He tells us in Romans 8:22 that "the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain" because of sin, then how can sinful fallible human beings say that their interpretation of the evidence is as perfect as God's written revelation? (Especially when nature itself has been cursed - God's Word has not.) Scientific assertions must use fallible assumptions and fallen reasoning - how can they be the Word of God?

4. Dr. Ross's Creation story for children states: "Starting about 2 to 4 million years ago, God began creating man-like mammals or 'hominids.' These creatures stood on two feet, had large brains, and used tools. Some even buried their dead and painted on cave walls.

"However, they were different from us. They did not worship God or establish religious practices. In time, all these man-like creatures went extinct. Then, about 10 to 25 thousand years ago, God replaced them with Adam and Eve." (Reasons To Believe Web Site, updated July 8, 1997)

Comment: Dr. Ross accepts and defends the evolutionist radiometric dating methods, so all evidence of humans, descendants of Noah, if given evolutionary dates of more than 25,000 years (e.g., The Neanderthal cave sites) must be redefined as related to spirit- less "hominoids" which the Bible doesn't mention. However, the same methods have been used to "date" the Australian aborigines back at least 40,000 years (some have claimed much older). By Ross's reasoning, the Australian aborigines could NOT be descendants of Adam and Eve. However, read Acts 17:26. Interestingly, some scientists now date the American Indians' ancestors at earlier than 40,000 years.

5. Dr. Ross commenting on God's knowledge and wisdom: "The Creator of the universe must be a Being that's a minimum of a hundred-trillion times better educated, more intelligent, therefore more powerful, more creative, and even more caring and loving than we human beings.' (Focus on the Family, radio broadcast, August 7, 1997)

Comment: Our Creator is NOT a minimum of a hundred-trillion times better "educated!" He is INFINITELY more knowledgeable. (See Col. 2:3; Job 21:22,42:1)

6. Dr. Ross defending death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering before Adam's sin: "The spilling of blood before Adam's sin in no way affects or detracts from the doctrine of atonement. Upholding that central doctrine in no way demands a Creation scenario in which none of God's creatures received a scratch or other blood-letting wound before Adam and Eve sinned.. Even in an ideal natural environment animals would be constantly scratched, pricked, bruised, and even killed by accidental events and each other... Could it be that God's purposes are somehow fulfilled through our experiencing the 'random, wasteful, inefficiencies' of the natural realm He created?" (Creation and Time, Chapters 6 & 8)

Comment: Read Genesis 1:29,30; Genesis 9:3; Genesis 1:31; Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:17-19; Genesis 3:21; Hebrews 9:22; Romans 5; Romans 8:20-22; 1 Corinthians 15; Acts 3:21; Isaiah 11:6-9; Revelation 21:4; Revelation 22:3.

God created a perfect world at the beginning all the animals and man were vegetarians (Gen. 1:29). Plants were given for food - they do not have a "nephesh" [life spirit] as man and animals do.

God killed the first animal in the Garden and shed blood because of sin -if there was death, bloodshed, disease and suffering before sin, then the basis for the atonement is destroyed. Christ suffered death, for death was the penalty for sin. There will be no death or suffering in the perfect "restoration- so why can't we accept the same in a perfect ("very good") Creation before sin?

7. Dr. Ross on space-time dimensions:

"What follows, then, from string theory and from all these recent findings in particle physics and astrophysics is that God must be operating in a minimum of eleven dimensions of space and time, or their practical equivalent." (Beyond The Cosmos, Chapter 3)

Comment: Dr. Ross bases much of what he says on "string theory," which is NOT universally accepted, and is just one of many arcane speculations being discussed by theorists. It is so vague and speculative, and without experimental support, that to use it to apply to defining attributes of God is foolish.

In the same book Dr. Ross declares:

"We are the only people ever to see (or need) direct scientific proof not only for God's existence, but also for His transcendent capacity to create space and time dimensions, as well as to operate in dimensions independent of our own four." (Beyond The Cosmos, Chapter 3)

Comment: What about Hebrews 11:3, 6? Whatever happened to faith? String theory is NOT proof for God's existence. Remember Romans 10:17:

"faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." The Spirit of God uses the Word of God to bring people to Christ.

A detailed critique of many more "Rossist" teachings is available in book form: Creation and Time - A Report on the Progressive Creationist Book by Hugh Ross. This is available through Answers in Genesis, P.O Box 6330, Florence KY, 41022. Phone orders (only): 1-800- 778-3390.

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Answers in Genesis October 1997"

Source: http://www.ldolphin.org/ham.html

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

The following is excerpted from the excellent book Occult Invasion: The Subtle Seduction of the World and Church by Dave Hunt (copyright 1998, Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, OR 97402) --

The differences between an evangelical and a Catholic gospel and understanding of salvation are as great as the distance between heaven and hell. Only one can be right. And to pretend they are the same because they use similar words while ignoring the vast differences in the meaning of those words is to engage in sophistry of the worst order.

Neither Roman Catholic nor evangelical doctrine has changed in the least since the days when both sides were at least honest enough either to die or to kill for their faith. Therefore, when Roman Catholics and evangelicals call one another "brothers and sisters in Christ" and claim they both believe the same gospel, there has to be a serious mistake. Either the martyrs died for a mere semantic misunderstanding which has suddenly been cleared up in our day or else this new acceptance of each other with its profession of unity is a fraud.

The document "Evangelicals and Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium," as we have seen [in earlier chapters of Hunt’s book], is one example of how the failure to define terms has created an illusion of unity which in fact doesn't exist at all. Of course, when church leaders of the stature of J.I. Packer, Charles Colson, Pat Robertson, and Bill Bright lead the way, it is only to be expected that millions of Christians, trusting the judgment of such [alleged] stalwarts of the faith, will follow. Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) has promoted for years the delusion that the Roman Catholic gospel is biblical. BILL HYBELS is another leader who, as pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois (which has been called "the most influential church in North America and perhaps the world"), has led multitudes astray in this same direction.

Bill Hybels, who was mentored by Robert Schuller (G.A. Pritchard, Willow Creek Seekers Services: Evaluating a New Way of Doing Church, Baker: 1996, pp. 49-58), "is leading a worldwide movement. Attending a recent Willow Creek training conference ... were over 2,300 church leaders from Australia, the Bahamas, Canada, England, Holland ... India, Japan, Korea ... Norway, Scotland, Sweden, the United States ... [and elsewhere]. ... Willow Creek ... [with] more than two hundred seventy full and part-time staff members ... is currently shaping how church is 'done' for thousands of churches." (Ibid., p. 11) Schuller has said:

"I was the first person to introduce real church growth to the American Church. ... He [Hybels] became the first guy to take these principles, refine them, maximize them to the ultimate length of their potential. ... I am so proud of him … I think of him as a son. I think of him as one of the greatest things to happen in Christianity in our time. … Bill Hybels is doing the best job of anybody I know!" (Ibid., p. 56)

MISINFORMATION FROM TRUSTED LEADERS

Pastor Hybels invited a Roman Catholic priest, Fr. Med Laz from Holy Family Church, into his Willow Creek Community Church pulpit to share with the congregation "What Protestants Can Learn from Catholics." In introducing Laz, Hybels told how at Laz's invitation he had spoken to a conference of Catholic leaders at Holy Family and that he had "developed this enormous respect and admiration for this man as a brother in Christ..." (transcribed from audiotape M9010, "What Protestants Can Learn from Catholics," Bill Hybels/Fr. Med Lax, 0304, Seeds Tape Ministry, 67 E. Algonquin Rd., South Barrington, IL 60010, a ministry of Willow Creek Community Church). Yet Laz told of "really becoming a Christian" after he was already a priest and that it happened through going to a motel room at 2:00 A.M. to see a young female acquaintance. Tempted to go to bed with her, he resisted the temptation and felt so good at having done so that he knew he was now a Christian. This "testimony" was greeted with enthusiastic applause, though it was hardly an example of what evangelicals call getting saved and it implied a priesthood made up of men who don't know Christ.

While he admitted that he and the priest didn't agree upon everything, any differences were too minor to mention. Hybels had only praise for Roman Catholicism and its false gospel. He told the congregation, which looks to him for leadership and guidance, "I believe there are some things we can learn from the Catholic Church and I'd like to ask Med ... to tell us what are some of the praiseworthy things of the Roman Catholic Church that you think Protestants can learn from..." (Ibid.)

[Priest] Laz boasted that Mother Teresa was part of the Catholic Church and Hybels implied that Protestants were jealous of that fact. There was not a word concerning her own deficient testimony. Laz also boasted that Covenant House, America's largest crisis shelter for runaways (with six locations), was run by Catholic nuns. Again Hybel's only response was approval.

The tragic truth can be found in a book titled Am I Going to Heaven? written by Covenant House director Sister Mary Rose McGeady. The book's title comes from its first story in which Sister McGeady tells of a 17-year-old girl who is about to die:

"She tried to lift her head up from the hospital bed pillow... but she couldn't....

"‘Sister, I need to know something,’ she whispered. ‘Please, tell me something.’

"‘Anything, Michelle,’ I said. ‘What do you want to know?’

"’Sister... am I going to Heaven? Even a street kid like me...?’

"I bent down and hugged her, and told her I knew God had a special place for her. I told her how much I loved her, and how much I believed in her....

"She cried in my arms, and whispered a ‘thank you.’ The next day, Michelle died in her sleep" (Sr. Mary Rose McGeady, Am I Going to Heaven?, Covenant House, 1994, pp. 5-6).

One weeps for Michelle, who wanted to know how she could be assured of heaven and wasn't told! One weeps, too, for the 31,000 broken lives that Covenant House seeks to mend each year, children and youth in desperate need of the answer that Michelle sought but who, like Michelle, are not given it because McGeady and her fellow Catholic nuns do not know the gospel. In McGeady's entire book of heartrending stories, there is no hint of the only solution to the problems she writes about: the gospel of Jesus Christ!

Laz also boasted of Rome's firm commitment to marriage, to which Hybels again gave his full assent. Not a word was said of the more than 60,000 annulments given (for a fee) by the Catholic Church in the United States each year and which make a mockery of marriage (National Catholic Reporter, August 27, 1993). Many annulments are granted for "psychological" reasons such as being raised in a "dysfunctional" family or being "psychologically unprepared" for a marriage that occurred decades before and produced numerous children-- the ultimate in hypocrisy and cynicism. Typical is the distress of a faithful Catholic woman whose Catholic husband was granted an annulment after a 30-year marriage and five children so he could marry again "in the Church" (letter on file).

Sadly enough, some Catholics now file secret letters with their attorneys at the time of marriage, expressing doubts--just in case they later want an annulment. The "PrimeTime" television show of January 6, 1994, dealt with the issue of Catholic annulments. A Catholic priest, as guest, remembered hearing a Church canon lawyer tell him, "Charlie, there isn't a Catholic marriage in the United States that we couldn't annul." A number of women guests told of their ex-husbands, after a divorce, seeking annulments so they could remarry in the Church.

Barbara Zimmerman, married 27 years and mother of five children; Pat Cadigan married 23 years; Sheila Rauch Kennedy, married for 12 years to Congressman Joseph P Kennedy II (Bobby Kennedy's eldest son) and mother of his twin sons (from a transcript of the program). This is mockery and desecration of marriage yet Hybels had nothing but praise for the Catholic "commitment to the sacredness of matrimony."

God said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6). Tragically, Christian leaders who ought to be providing, along with the truth of God's Word, the factual knowledge that would help to keep evangelicals from today's ecumenical delusion are withholding it.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

Hybels is VERY popular in Evangelical circles.

"I'm not a charismatic. However, I don't feel it's my calling to shoot great volleys of theological artillery at my charismatic brothers and sisters. ... More than ever we need grace-awakened ministers who free rather than bind: Life beyond the letter of Scripture ... absence of dogmatic Bible-bashing" Source: (Charles Swindoll, The Grace Awakening, pp. 188,233).

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

"Our assistant editor, Dennis Costella, was able to cover with FOUNDATION magazine press credentials the National Association of Evangelical's 50th Anniversary meeting held in Chicago, 1992. The Reverend Bill Hybels, pastor of the huge and controversially innovative Willow Creek Community Church was showcased at the conference, both in Hybels' own presentation at the convention, and also in various seminars which used his ministry as the example of how to build a successful church ministry - in this present secularized society. He gave a presentation detailing the phenomenal growth of his church. Since as many as 15,000 attend his weekend services, it is easy to understand why the NAE chose him to explain "how to" with respect to building the ministry of a local church. After listening to his presentation, it became very clear that the tremendous growth of his church can be attributed to at least two primary innovations. One, the use of worldly entertainment to attract the unchurched; and, a ministry emphasizing psychologically based principles that supposedly are effective in dealing with the problems of believers and unbelievers alike. Willow Creek has-"trained therapists [who] use biblical and psychological principles to help individuals, couples. . . "-we would ask,- "Whatever happened to Bible-based, godly, pastoral counseling?"

In 1990, Bill Hybels wrote Honest to God? Becoming an Authentic Christian which has been widely promoted by Billy Graham and other NAE leaders in spite of the fact that it exalts the false theories of humanistic psychology. Under the heading, "Different Isn't Bad," on page 70, Hybels wrote: "In the 1920's Carl Jung [an internationally renowned Swiss psychologist and psychiatrist] took a new look at the old theory that just as people are born with differing physical traits-tall or short, brown-eyed or blue-eyed, right-handed or left- handed-so they are born with differing temperament traits. In the 1950s Isabel Myers and Kathryn Briggs expanded Jung's work and devised the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test, a tool for identifying personality types based on various combinations of inborn temperament traits.

"Please Understand Me is an in-depth look at Jung's theory and the applications made by Myers and Briggs. Lynne and I read it one year on vacation, and to say it revolutionized our marriage is no exaggeration. It dispelled the notion that there is one standard of 'normalcy' and whoever doesn't fit it is wrong."

"The theory proposes that people approach four selected areas of life in ways that are fundamentally different-but equally right. These different ways of behaving are called preferences."

Hybels' attempted mixing of godless, humanistic psychology with Biblical truth is very popular today. The result of this unholy mixture, however, is a very deceptive attack upon Biblical standards of right and wrong, truth and error. God's people must be warned no matter how successful or productive such mixtures might appear to be at the moment"

Source: http://216.239.51.100/search? q=cache:AJQwfax6CHQC:www.revelationwebsite.co.uk/index1/occ/fbcfreud.h tm+Bill+Hybels+apostate+teachings&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002

Phil,

If you were as good at telling the truth as you are cutting and pasting we'd all be quite impressed!

XXXXOOOOOO

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2002