To all you anonited men and women of God put on your thinking caps for this question I am about to throw @ you. This question comes from a sister which I am counseling in my church. She has told me the history of this situation which I will share with you. She is a preachers kid grew up in a Christian family. She goes away to college and meets this young man who is also a PK. They become friends, however during their jr or sr year, they engaged into a sexual relationship. Before their relationship platonic, now it turned sexual, they kept the affair on the DL because they were both seeing other people. OKAY, now, after graduation, even though they stopped messing around, they still talked. One day she gets a call from her friend that he is getting married (which later she found out from a mutal friend of theirs that the marriage was a shotgun wedding...a bun in the oven..if you know what I mean) A year later, she gets married on the rebound to a guy she doesn't love. Now she is 7 years divorced, and he's still married two kids later, both of them are in the ministry, she is over the singles ministry in my church and he is a pastor. She told me earlier this month she seen him at this convention here in Charlotte. He was alone, he always travels alone. She told me that his marriage is on the rocks (quote from him, I am not sure should I stay or should I go) and some other things (lies) were revealed about the marriage. To add more fuel to the fire, the mutal friend between them has said some thing to her to make her think there might be a "snowballs chance in you know where" for the guy and her to get back together. She knows what she is feeling is not right matter of fact is outright CRAZY. She has cried over this and feels guilty to think about her MARRIED friend like this. She said these feeling didn't start until 2000, when God drop in her spirit to pray for him. Then the feelings took a life of its own. In my midst of counseling, I have prayed and fasted for an answer to give to her because she desires to break this soultie once and for all, nothing is coming up. Ministers what can you suggest that I tell her what to do, before she goes coo-coo over this??

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Answers

Elder Crawford, I am so thankful your parishoner is coming to you and seeking help. One of the things I would do if I was counseling a similar situation. Is keep the focus of the discussion on the young woman. 1.e) What is going on in her life 2.) if she feels unhappy, what does she think is causing it. loneliness, money, work etc. I would attempt to get her to look at the things in her life that she does have control over. One of the paradoxes of our society is that we expect others to make us happy. When in reality it is only our relationship with God that can do that. When we are in right relation with God (which is the definition of salvation) then we do not sin (which means to turn away from God,) I sense there is hungering for her to be with God. I would suggest some Bible studies that are designed specifically for women. 2.) Have her keep a daily journal, she could write in it, prayers her thoughts regarding God, anything that comes to mind. She is to bring the journal to her sessions with you to discuss her thoughts during the week. 3.)Ask her what she wants God to do in her life. 4.) Ask her what she needs to do in order for this to happen and then set up a plan of action to accomplish this 5.) Address her lonliness so she is not fantasizing and writing this married man, perhaps giving service to others. 6.) Guide her through her walk with Christ, ever reminding her that God forgives us our sins, and the love that Christ has for her will fill her life. And that God has a partner for her that is single and emotionally healthy. Keep us posted.

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

That was a response directly from the Spirit. I was in counseling some years back. What I would have given to have a Godly person to turn to.

Elder Lori Crawford, I commend you for having the spirit where this person can come to you and pour out her heart. The devil hates it because he was hoping she wouln't confess this, nurse it, rehearse it, until she has backed away from God. How awesome is God...We truly cannot be snatched from his hand.

My experience was sort of similar, only I was married and the person was not. We had a relationship before I met my husband and we grew apart and went our separate ways. I always carried a torch. He moved back in town, and one day I saw him, and discovered the feelings were still there. I was convicted of those feelings and tried (what I thought was everything) to discard them.

This person died, and I was left bewildered. Because I had no one spiritual to share my feelings with I shut them up. Between that and other cares of life,I almost lost it. I went to counseling, and it was a help; but it wasn't until I received Godly advice, that I was able to have deliverance.

Thankfully, I met a preacher lady who saw my worth and my love for God. I opened up many years of hurt, and secret sins of my pass to her. I have to tell you, that her working with me was almost exactly as Rev Rogers has suggested to you.

The journal was the most important thing of all. I've learned to talk to God and withold nothing. She had me read scriptures of God's promises over my life, and his good intentions. Scriptures filled with mercy, grace and compassion. I had to learn to bury the dead.

I also read the book by T D Jakes "Naked But Not Ashamed". It talked about sleeping with the dead. Well I discovered, I was doing that before this person died, because that was a dead situation. One that could bring no life, but destruction for myself.

It's been seven years, and I feel victorious. I still need to journal, and guard my heart, cherish my salvation (relationship with God).

Satan has a design for her. It's a plot because she is working in ministry. Our imaginations can become filled with vanity. We can't feed it. I believe she loves God and his people with all of her heart. When she gets a breakthough, so many will be blessed. Her ministry will flow with the confidence of God.

Carmen

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

I know I'm runnning the risk of stepping on a handgrenade, but I don't quite understand the dimemma. If the woman in question is not married but her ex-paramour is married with children, logic dictates that you eliminate your carnal desires since you will never be NUMBER ONE! This is an emotional no-brainer. Cut your ties while you are ahead, be thankful for the experiences and keep moving forward. I have seen too many women who are turned into an emotional vegetate state due to their il-advised decisions in the market for male companionship. Some men are predators and thankfully many are not. Reason, not regrets, must prevail. QED

-- Anonymous, September 03, 2002

Dear Elder Crawford,

I agree with Rev. Rogers and Carmen's point about relationships of this nature. I agree that one of the paradoxes of society is that we expect other people to make us happy. Joy and happiness are based on an ever increasing relationship with God almighty. I also agree with Carmen that this is one of the enemy's insidious attacks upon this couple because they are in ministry.

In this case, the enemy appears to be once again confusing people between the difference between passion and love. God is love. He loved us before we could love Him. We should therefore love ourselves next and then we can love others. We can always depend on God(LOVE) which is unchanging and constant. We can't depend on passion. Falling in love(passion) and love are not one and the same. The enemy knows this and has used this tactic to confuse those involved in romantic relationships for eons. I encourage that sister to fast and pray and ask God to give her the wisdom to wait for Him to give her another man. In the mean time, she should load her head up with the things of God like bible study, prayer, fasting, praise, service, etc.

Jazzman

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Well...I agree with Bro. Bill! The situation dictates the behavior, which is--leave this man ALONE. Tears are cleansing and healing for the body and soul. So, it is okay to cry. This sister should consider it a learning expereince, thanking God each day for not giving into that buzzard---that's what I call men who seek weak women, watching and waiting for a chance to eat their flesh.

I too, journal! It is a wonderful way of releasing emotions in a safe place. Also suggest to her to get a hobby--something to occupy her free time.

Peace, Brenda

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Brenda, you know I love you. :-) We can always count on you to tell it like it is.

A few weeks ago a question came up the difference between soul and spirit. Well I asked a friend of mine who is a preacher his thoughts. He said "the soul feels, the spirit knows."

One thing I've learned through my experience this type of romantic love is driven by our emotions. The Word of God will stir up our spirit to do what is right. It is truth and it is life. When we line up with truth we can then be made free.

I praise God for the preacher who instructed me by the Word of God. She never sugar coated anything. Simply let me hear truth of the Word. It was seasoned with grace, but truth none the less.

When we are in ministry, despite the struggle, I have learned you got to leave things that are not beneficial to the kingdom of God alone. It takes too much out of you, and the ministry suffers. We should be first partakers of the fruit that we give out to others.

In Christ, Rose

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

First of all, I would like to say thank you for all of your suggestions and comments on this situation, (including Bro. Bill with his upfront, razor sharp answer :) because this was too overwhelming for me to handle alone. Okay, NOW I am STILL dealing with this sista in this 10 year soul tie. She feels that eveything she has done is no use and feels that she should tell him about her feeling because his marraige is on the rocks! I am like NO!!!!!! Any suggestions???

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2002

Hand this sister a bible with those sections referencing adultery highlighted. Have a word of prayer with her, and leave it to God.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Hey Elder Lori!

Back to Carmen-I love you too! The soul collects experiences that can prevent us from connecting to our spiritual (God) center. It has many influences such as personality, emotions, ego, senses and the intellect that try to control our reactions. Emotions, in my opinions can be very strong, requiring prayer, meditation and most importantly God to keep them balanced.

Elder Lori...back to this sister. I agree with you. I'm discerning that it would prove wiser for her not to disclose her feelings. My God tells me that women and men must exercise wisdom when dealing with married people, especially those with children. She doesn't want the blood of innocent children on her hands. If she tells this man and he decides to leave his wife, the children will feel the bunt of the pain. Wherein, she'll have to deal with the repercussions on both physical and spiritual levels. Also, can she pinpoint the feeling? The reason I asked is that spiritual connections can be very strong and sometimes misinterpreted as physical attraction.

Please continue being a friend to this sister, but don't allow yourself to get sucked into the situation. She must figure out the solution on her own. You have given her the tools, it is left up to her to use them wisely.

Brenda

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Spiritual Connection should not be confused with the soul ties; which is what I believe this sister has with the man. Many of us here on this board have a spiritual connection. It's pure, undefiled and we stand little or no chance of harming one another.

This soul tie is very dangerous. And as you mention Brenda, it can be physical. The thing about this is it is like a strong cord just weaved together. It's difficult to break. In her case with the gentlemen, she's even weaved with his wife. When something is so weaved together, sometimes the only way out is to cut it loose, and leave it alone. It would be very time consuming to even think you can stratigically unraffle it, without causing harm.

As far as her telling him. He knows how's she feeling. She's got to do what is right, what her spirit leads her to do. Continue to pray for her, but I think talking about it too much, may present danger. We find excuses when we talk about something too long. We start what you call "Stinking Thinking."

She doesn't sound like a baby christian. You have to exhort her to do what is right, and as Brenda said, the rest is up to her.

Carmen

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Saints, this situation is bigger than what I had expected! After hearing what she has told me in yesterday's seesion,I had to get out the heavy equipment, Prophetess Juanita Bynum's Book "No More Sheets" and watched the video, which bears its title 9 times in one night. I also have this book by Liberty Savard entitled "Keys to Understanding Soulties, Soul Power and Soulish Prayers", cause after what she told me I'VE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN MY LIFE! (Do I REALLY want to go into counseling after this:-)

This young lady (against my advice) sought the advice of another minster at another church. (She said she wanted a man's point of view as well) She told me what he said. She went on to say that the night of the relationship began, both parties (the guy and the girl) realized that they committed fornication and so, they agreed to join hands and asked the Lord to forgive them of the sin act. Now this minister told this lady that because they joined hands and asked the Lord to forgive them collectively for the sin, that not only it opened the door to the soul tie but these two individuals when they went before the Lord, the Lord seen them as a MARRIED couple in the spirit realm. (SAY WHAT! This is really blowing my mind!) In otherwords, the minister broke it down to her that this man she committed the act with, is really her husband in God's eyesight, and that is the reason why her marriage failed and his (the guy) is about to fail. NOW this young lady is HAVING A MAJOR COW and is upset and crying because she feels that she had missed God on her husband and that she will NEVER get a husband because she is so-called "married". Okay saints, is there scripture to back this up? WHAT TO DO? (My pastors are also looking for the answer as well, cause I've NEVER heard anything like before in my life!) Please pray for my mental health in the matter thanks :-)

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Carmen, You are so right!!! This soul tie is messing the girl up! This soultie is weaved tighter than a $200.00 hair weave! (LOL) I recall when I was married and I was going through my issues with my ex-husband it took me about 4 yrs to fully get over, so I can imangine what this sister is going through, however, I truly believe the anointing will destroy this yoke on her back. The question, (which I feel she doesnt) do she want it broken? I asked her what would it profit to gain this dude and basicly lose your standing with the Lord, the church and finally with yourself? I have counseled her to say if the marriage was based on a lie, whatever is done in the day shall come to light and is up to the Lord to work things out. She doesn't have the right tell this dude anything, but God Bless you. I feel all of your comments. God Bless

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Elder Crawford,

I have heard people say when you commit a sexual act you are in a sense marrying the person. To say that it is biblical, is stretching it a bit. But I believe they take it from how the Bible would say they came together. When they did that it was their union.

This is just the reason why it is so dangerous to commit fornication. God has provided an avenue and a way, and that is through marriage. BEcause he's such an intellegent God that he knew the tangled web we would weave.

Now, this is no disrespect to preacher who counseled her, but if she and he repented, then God held it against them no more. They should have turned away from the sin and never done this again. Now if they continued they did not repent in Godly sorrow, or as the scripture says with a broken spirit and contrite heart.

In Psalms 51, David Repents. And one of the things I like about this scripture is that he knew until he got it right, he couldn't teach others. "9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee."

We can't effectively teach until we have effectively overcome. Now this doesn't mean that we don't have a good word to say. Because it is God's Word and it won't return void. But to be effective and teach and preach with power, we have to repent and know that God has forgiven us. The joy we feel will give us power. Not only that, but the pain of being in a sinful state is great. And when we are delivered, we don't want anyone to have to experience that alienation from God.

David was clear about that. He was sorry, and understood the importance of God's face shining upon him. He would make it is duty to teach transgressor their ways, so they could avoid the pain of being absent from God.

The truth will make us free. Some say it hurts, but I say it may for a moment, but eventually you should end up free. If I am bound with chains, as they come off (especially if they have been on a while), there will be some sort of pain, but I'm free none the less.

Carmen Rose

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

LORD! Where do some preachers get their message or what Bible do they read?

As an unmarried man I was going to stay out of this discussion but the latest note about the second opinion has thrown me for a loop. Since I am not a minister I speak only from the experiences i have had.

Today, Reverend John sent out a newsletter entitled, "Weed Whacking." This is a message that is full of hope and it spoke to a multitude of problems, which I have faced. We must rightfully discern the Body and Blood of Christ.

Each day this week at 5:45 p.m., I went to the Episcopal Cathedral for daily prayer and Communion from the common cup. The only reason I chose the Episcopal Church is that Communion and Prayer are a daily event-- including their weddings and funerals. I also went because John Wesley was (always) an Anglican Priest. Therefore our beliefs as Methodists are virtually one and the same. Yesterday to my elation and surprise, this half-hour service included healing as well.

Each time I have done this, the result for me has been most positive indeed. Things, which had taken months to manifest, are now all falling in place. I am speaking to the mountains and they are running away. As Christians we sometimes disagree. But on Communion and Baptism we all agree and these two Sacraments make us ONE.

There is no reason why any ordained minister could not do the same-- that is to consecrate and administer Communion at any time with thanksgiving and prayer

If you don't get Rev. John's Newsletters I will forward this one to you because it is exactly what I think will work in this case--to discern the Body and Blood of Christ.

In the words of an old hymn quoted by Rev. John, AMEC #405

What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus; What can make me whole again? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! precious is the flow That makes me white as snow; No other fount I know, Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

-- Anonymous, September 05, 2002

Alas!!! I can FINALLY give a conclusion this never ending story! The young woman whom I have been counseling finally realized that she needed to get herself together. (It's about time!) She wanted someone to agree with her in this twisted situation and she thought if I agreed to it then eventually she would have not guilty in trying to entice this MARRIED pastor, however thanks to all of you in cyberspace you all helped me through. I can now rest easy that this young lady knows the error of her ways and is willing to be obedient to what the Lord says on this issue. God Bless

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2002

I think they should let go off this person and repent and ask God to help her to get over this soultie.

-- Anonymous, August 17, 2003