This thread is intended as a follow-up question to the previous one. The question is, do churches that belong to the Willow Creek Association/ Third Wave of the Spirit movement still belong to the brotherhood of independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ? I will try to keep out of the discussion for as long as I can, because I am genuinely interested in what you have to say.

-- Anonymous, August 28, 2002

Answers

I am puzzled by this phrase: "still belong to the brotherhood"

Was Bill Hybles a part of and ordained in the cc/coc? I have never heard of this. I never thought WCA was a part.

Anybody have background here?

-- Anonymous, August 28, 2002

Bill,

In order to warm up to this thread, you need to view the previous one: “ARE WE HEADED FOR ANOTHER SPLIT IN THE RM?” Take a look at what has been said there and then you will be able to respond accordingly.

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Phil;

I have been reading that thread, and I scanned it again. I never once saw anything about Bill Hybles and I only saw mention of Willow Creek starting with your posts.

So please, will you just answer the question? How can they split the brotherhood if they were never a part - or were they originally? Was Bill Hybles ordained in our brotherhood? I really want to know?

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Bill,

I'm no Bill Hybels expert but I don't think there's any connection. THe only thing I've been able to find (I scanned the internet after seeing your post), is that there was an early association with Bob Schueller(sp?) of Crystal Cathedral fame. However there are many Churches from all ilks that are joining their association: Pentecosal, SDA, Baptist, Methodist, etc.

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Phil,

I assume your question is directed at me since we are a member of WCA. First of all, WCA is simply a group of like minded people when it comes to a passion to reach lost people. That is pretty much where the similarity ends. Secondly, WCA has nothing to do with the Third Wave theology. Thirdly, you are using the word "brotherhood" as a synonym for "denomination". As far as I know, there are no specific rules for being a member. If you know of any, please pass them along.

IHS,

Barry

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Bill,

As far as I know, Bill Hybles has no connection to the RM, other than his interaction with former RM preachers that belong to the WCA. I’m not going to touch the “ordination” thing because I don’t believe that it is actually germane to our subject. Ordination is not the issue – ideological and doctrinal substance is.

Some among us seem to think that the grahamite formula of “ask Jesus into your heart”, “accept Jesus”, or “pray the sinner’s prayer” is actually biblical. For this reason they believe that Bill Hybles and the WCA (including most of its members) are true brothers and sister in Christ. At least that is the reading I am getting. Well, I have news for them. Bill Hybles is not my brother in Christ, but neither is Billy Graham or the Pope. Those who shun biblical immersion into Christ, do so on the basis of man’s inner-rumblings and not on the authority of the New Testament. As long as 1 Peter 3:21 is in the Bible, we are only left to discern exactly “what” role baptism plays in salvation, not “if” it plays any role in salvation. Furthermore, those who (like Graham) proclaim the universalistic Gospel, are not doing God a favor or giving Him an alibi by extending salvation to all who have never heard about the historical Jesus; in fact, what they are doing is keeping salvation from them (and that is Satan’s work).

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

Uhhhh Phil.....Willow Creek baptized (immersed) over 900 people into Christ last year. Please get your facts straight. I'm beginning to think that you are distorting these things on purpose. And if you don't view Billy Graham and Bill Hybels as your brothers in Christ, it is your loss.

Barry

-- Anonymous, August 29, 2002

To one and all,

No one who teaches a false Gospel is by brother or sister in Christ. No one! Having stated that, I must admit that it is possible to come to the knowledge of the true Gospel even within an apostate religious body and/ or institution. One obvious case is all those ex-Catholics who came to know the truth within the Charismatic Renewal Movement. They did so, not because their Church taught them the true way, but in spite of the Church’s false gospel. What the CRM did was to allow Catholic laity the privilege of reading the Bible – it was this single event that has led many to leave that institution. It ought to do the same for those who are with the Willow Creek crowd.

-- Anonymous, September 03, 2002

Phil,

Would you like us to start worshipping you now, or should we wait for you to resurrect from the dead? O Philip, Holy Holder of all that is True, may your Mexican friends see you for the Pharisee that you are. You really need to do some serious self-examination "brother".

-- Anonymous, September 03, 2002

Sorry all,

It was wrong of me to dis the Pharisees by comparing them to Phil.

Barry

-- Anonymous, September 03, 2002