It is very difficult to deal with the fact we are losing AMEs by the hundreds an no one seem to care. We have pastors that only care about their salaries and paying budgets and members are slowly leaving and joining non-demoninational churches. How can we slow the process down of losing so many members. What happen to the parable of having 100 sheep and one is lost? Please somebody help us get it together. My church has two avtive member between the age of 18-35. They are leaving my brother and sisters while you are counting your pay check and budget money.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2002

Answers

The Lord taught me a lesson on small churches a few years back. I was living in the Florida panhandle at the time. The church had a rather unique style, especially their taste in music. They were big into Southern Gospel music, and sang primarily that in their services. Unless a person had been raised with that type music, it was very hard to learn to sing. The result was most visitors never came back after one service.

As I reflected on how it would be very hard for this church to grow the Lord told me not to worry about it. People who liked that style of worship need a place to go to church, and if the church stayed small, that was ok as long as they were otherwise following God's Word. People who like other styles of church had plenty of places to choose from. Some churches would be big, and others would be small, and it was all fine as long as everyone got fed. In the meantime, it was wrong to condemn those who had different tastes.

Of course I know that someday a small church with a diminishing appeal will die out. Either that or it will change to suit a new group of worshippers. If it dies in good standing, let it go with no regrets. It served its purpose while it was in its season.

Now if a church wishes to keep younger members it must make a place for them. This may run the risk of alienating older members of course, and we shouldn't make them feel squeezed out. It may be best to simply part company. If the older folks want to keep their church alive they'll do what's necessary. But if they just can't stand the younger taste, let the younger ones go with a blessing. Again, both situations are ok!

I recently changed churches for several reasons, but part of it was my family just didn't fit in. We've found a place where we do now, with casual dress and contemporary worship style. We probably sing less than 10 hymns a year. I know my parents wouldn't like it, and we have very few older people. That's ok. There's churches out there for everyone. What we shouldn't do though is condemn.

Now if a church is dying because of spiritual deadness, that's another issue altogether.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2002

My sister, it is very true that the AME Church is losing members at a alarming number. We must embrace this move of God that is taking place in other denomoinations. I believe we have held on so tight to the past without preparing ourselves for the future. In order to keep young people, we must learn to embrace their ideas and except them into our ministries and organizations. We often say we want young people to work and serve in the church, but when they step up to the plate, we turn them away. We can't let tradition and religion hold us back. I agree that we can't get where we're going, if we don't know where we've been, but we must learn to take what our forefathers have done and build upon it.

In the 4th Episcopal District, Presiding Prelate Bishop Philip R. Cousin started Young Adult Network (YAN), a organization that he began while serving in the 1st Episcopal District. Many of the programs and ministries within YAN were put into place to encourage, empower, and revive the young people in out district.

As a connectional church, we must come up with a plan to retain young adult memberships. If it means bringing praise and worship in exchage for a hymn a two, or finding ways to appeal to a younger worshipper, without turning away seasoned or mature saints, then why not.

Bro. Karion Hogan

-- Anonymous, July 30, 2002

My sister and brother, this is an issue that has bothered me for a while. Though our traditions are what makes AME...AME, our traditions are teaching tools( if you really look at it), it may be necessary to bring changes to the worship service or ministries so that all are involved and fed.

It greives me to see us giving up tradition to seem more like the status quo. I feel that there is a place for Kirk Franklin, but also there is a place for " O for a thousand tongues to sing". We must learn how to mold the old with the new.

I feel you when you mention about pastors who are more conccerned with their salaries and perks, rather than their congregation needs. It is for the saints to encourage and if necessary challenge the administration....the lay ministry could be involved. Now I'm not saying oust the pastor, but pray and follow God's leading in this. Scripture speaks of not touching God's annointed, but it also mentions about if one has an issue with another then we are to go to them. The AME Discipline may give info. on to proceed with issues such as this.

Be steadfast, my sister, in your walk....pray and ask for direction in ways that you can help this in your church. What He tells you may be something that can help the denomination as a whole.

Be encouraged all...God is still in control!

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

Dear Sister Watkins,

It is obvious to me that you love the AME church. In a previous posting, I requested that we have prayer and fasting about certain issues. It seems to me that now is the time to try God about this particular issue. I am going to pray about this issue of the AME church losing members. However, if you will set the date, we and others could also fast and pray about this issue all the day long. I am certain that God is more than willing to give us instruction on how to operate His church. Would you be willing to fast this Sunday or next Sunday in regards this issue? If so, please invite me and others on this bulletin board to fast and pray about how the AME church can preach and teach the gospel more to the world and get more saved individuals amongst its rank.

Jazzman

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

This is a topic of fundamental importance. Personally speaking, I see our Zion at a critical crossroad in our new millenium ministry. I believe the single most important tangible benefit the AMEC brings to black Christianity is organization. Richard Allen was indisputably correct when he opined that organization, provided thru Methodism, was a critical component for the spiritual and social development of African slaves and freedman. With organization naturally comes tradition. Tradition is often an indirect form of social control. Social control imposes contraints on freedom and flexibility. Youth and young adults are typically unfazed and unimpressed with tradition particularly if it means remaining in a perpetual state of submission to adult authority. The key is seeking a proper balance between tradition and neo-Pentecostal worship trends. I have offered the concept of "organizational flexibility" as a plausible option. Why, for example, does YPD remain under the auspices of the WMS? YPD has members ages 22-26. Are not these adult men and women who are leading independent and productive lives? Why do they need the maternal oversight of our fine elderly ladies? I believe YPD and RAYAC should merge since they are both appealing to the same demographic consituency. To say that concessions will have to be made to reverse the young adult exodus from our churches is to state the obvious. Denial by our leaders on this point is a guarantee for anemic growth. While "power-sharing" is premature it is important to allow young adults more spiritual autonomy. The importance of this topic is precisely why candidates for the Bench in 2004 should provide the AMEC with their plan of action to remedy this problem. The candidates with the best plan should be voted in on the first ballot. Our members and the future of this Zion are owed nothing less. QED

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

Thank you all for your support of my concern about losing AMEs. I will be more than happy to Fast This Sunday, August4, 2002 and Pray as well. Most of the problem is the pastor shows no interest in trying to recruit young adults. We have 655 listed on the roll, however there are only about 125 active. I am not saying we don't get a good sermon on Sunday, but we need more than just a sermon, some ministers are not call to pastor and the sooner those that are willing to received their true calling,(preach, teach etc.) then perhaps the church will grow again. Our young people at our church once they graduate from high school they don't return to the church to worship, they go to area churches where there are YOUTH. I am and will always pray for my church and work with whomever the Bishop assigns to us. Please join me this Sunday in fasting and praying for the growth of the church I attend in Florida. Again thank you.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

Dear Sister Watkins,

I will certainly be fasting with you on Sunday August 4, 2002 about this issue. I encourage all other AME's to do the same. I believe that God is going to work in an amazing way. As a matter of fact, I am praying right now for the strenght to fast on Sunday August 4, 2002 and also which specific prayer requests I should make.

Jazzman

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

I too, will join with you Sunday, August 4th to fast and pray for our Zion. Good Bless you my sister and I will keep you in my prayers.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2002

Dear Sister Watkins

I too have the same concern. I believe our difficulty has been growing for the last Forty years. Forty plus years ago the Church was growing through the climax of the civil rights movement. Blacks did not have access nor opportunity to economic empowerment. Our Churches were filled because Our Church was the only place folk had to turn to in hard times. Today all that has changed.

As education,opportunity and wealth developed in the 60's, 70's and 80's we found the culture of blacks around the world shifting. The Church (in my one man's opinion) did not shift to the new need.The young people I started out with 30 years ago are all gone. In my Church my Brothers and I are the only members from that youth period.Some Churches did adjust to the social change and they still grow and thrive today (Rev Floyd Flake and others). Our people suffer today from different issues and our Church is losing out to those who provide a forum for our people to be be heard.

We just closed a youth revival this week in Bermuda (seeking to reclaim our youth). Featured Speaker in the closing revival services was the Rev. Jamal Bryant of Empowerment Temple. We had a wonderful time but the attendance said it all. We did not fill the house on any night.After much hard work there is still more hard work to go.

My belief is that the Church must shift gears in Ministry. Why should there only be a few Mega Churches and not many of them. The strongest force in the revived Churches are those aged 18 to 39. Rev Bryant has the largest growing Church for that reason.

Our system must be challenged. God never needs to be Challenged but those of us who claim to be his servants do. Our system of Annual Conference program management is outdated. We need more aggressive plans that will outlive the people who suggest the ideas in the first place. We must have a connectional dialogue on the future of the Church and how we will grow. Trying to keep is not enough. The AME Church is inundated with some of the most brilliant ideas and brilliant minds. We have not moved with many of these ideas and are now paying the price.In this new millenium the only two things we can assure you is that change is a continuum (that will only increase faster) and God is still the same. The African Methodist Episcopal Church has fallen behind in this continuum of change but not fallen out.

Instead of being preoccupied with the success of TD Jakes and Eddie Long, we should as servants be just as bold or more. Sis. Watkins I thank God for you. Our Church has many issues (too many in my opinion)which speak to a lack of vision, direction and execution. All of us must work harder, pray longer and more fervently,be more vigilant. When we do no officer of this Church will take our work or their work lightly.

I will be praying for you and this issue from today through Monday.

God Bless You My Sister

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2002

May God bless you all for your concern and willinginess to join me in prayer and fasting this Sunday. I know the Lord will move in a mighty way. Thanks again. I love you all.

-- Anonymous, August 01, 2002

@ Bro. Nalton....AMEN !!!

@ Sis. Linda.... my prayers are with you. I, too, will be fasting with you for this need for our church. It will be revealed.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2002

Good point Linda...Speaking from experience. I left the church because of spiritual pain. Each Sunday, I paid my tithes and participated in various organizations but with no (or little) fulfillment.

Linda, young people are looking for spiritual fulfillment, which I beleive the church must provided. They don't understand the organization or budgets or the historial road traveled by AMEs.

The mega churches TD Jakes and the likes attract people who are spiritually and emotionally wounded. They make them feel good, thus providing a safe haven for percieved spiritual growth. The also services appear very emotional and physcial. People can achieve the same results with a good work out. But that's a different story:-).

Last week, I wrote my pastor (Terrance Gray, St. Paul AME) a long note expressing my concerns over the church. He responded with kind words, offering support and guidance. Many young people (especially myself) study history and the bible. We see other varibles not brought alive during sermons or bible study. I personally want an environment that feeds my spiritual body...not concerned with pay check or budget. In fact (I'll get bashed for this one), when I see a pastor driving a very nice car while the people in his flock driving clonkers...I have to wonder about the leadership. The same people driving those clonkers provide a way for him to drive and live nicely. My brothers and sisters...it is time to redefine the organized church.

Brenda

Endnote...This board will be happy to know that I attended Bible study. Quite nice. Numbers 13. I still don't agree with historial portions, but the find the spiritual teachings applicable for today.

Brenda

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2002

Well has anyone thought that maybe the church needs a spiriutal facelift? I remember watching Kenneth Copeland some few years ago (this when I was a member of the AME Zion Church) and he made this statement "People used to move across the counrty and around the world for jobs or military, or to be with family. "In the coming years as we draw closer to the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, people will no longer be transplanting themselves for jobs, but they will be moving to a glimpse of the Anointing" There is a hunger in the land and if one particular church is not satisfying that need, then you have go where the river flows freely. We have to get out of the religious mindset that, it is all about the demonination, and it is not. Nowhere in the Word you even see the word "demonination" or even Jesus command us to be seperate like we are today. Sunday is the most segregated day in this land, not only among the races, but as well with Christian brothers and sisters. We must understand that people are getting tired of church as usual, we need a move of God. Sis, what you need to do, like we all need to do, that to pray for revival, Get the Book "God Chasers" by Tommy Tinney. See this exodus of the members leaving AME is an outward sign that the Church needs to come together. 2Chron 7:14 "If my people who are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray, seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will heal their lands" See whats happening right now, judgement is taking place in the house of God across all demoninations. And the ones who are righteous before shall stand and others who are corrupt the name "Icobad" (the glory of the Lord has departed) is written on them. We need to cry out for revival first to ignite our very souls then our leadership then the whole country. Not just some preacher coming in and giving a three night sermon, but a life changing experience only God can give, when this happens, when we get off of our religious high horses and humble ourselves and pray for a true revival, every church will be jammed packed.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2002

Oh yes!!! "God Chasers" by Tommy Tenney. I've been a God Chaser for a while now. That book changed my life, and my whole idea of what Christianity is about.

Now read "The Fear of the Lord" by John Bevere. It has the same authoritative annointing, speaks of the same subjects, and has some how-to steps to the revival the God Chasers are seeking. Also read "Spiritual Authority" by Watchman Nee (if it's still in print or you can find a copy). I got that from one of our elders, and it's pretty old. It's pretty deep stuff, and certainly qualifies as a hard teaching. If you can't find that, read another book by John Bevere, "Under Cover", which also speaks of authority.

After reading those books you'll realize that many if not most of the Christians you know are quite irreverent towards the Lord, and rebellious...and ignorant of the fact that they are like this. You're likely to be dealt with rather severely by the Lord as I was, but if that's what we need, that's what we need. We shouldn't run from the Lord's dealings, we should seek them now matter how painful.

Big time conviction in all of these books, but they also contain the answers to many of the church's problems.

-- Anonymous, August 11, 2002