(gee, we are so non-money oriented here...no category to put this in!)

As some of you know, Mr. S. may be going to school for as many as 9 more quarters. Could be as short as 2 more, depending on financing/his acceptance into the program, etc.

I'm thinking about microeconomics (like how to set up my new copy of MSMoney, how to forecast my farm expenses, how to eat more beans and grains, etc.!) and I'm thinking about macroeconomics (the Dow is at 9126, Japan is de-insuring their banks next spring, terrorist stuff, etc).

I just wondered if any of you have:thoughts/concerns/ideas/websites/God-knows-what* to share regarding finances. We don't discuss this much, do we?

Do you think about your finances? Do you lie awake at night wondering if you can make your next mortgage payment? Do you think you should buy gold? Put up more preserves? Work a second job? Be nicer to your present boss? ???

Our county is at 7.5% unemployment and growing. I'm on a fairly even keel (and maybe it's just the full moon), but I'm doing some psychic pacing...back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

Thanks for your thoughts.

-- Anonymous, June 25, 2002

Answers

Honey, I been there and am looking at going back. My money management was very simplistic with a budget and careful record keeping so that I knew where every penny was going for a month. This way I could plug up wasting leaks and accurately budget for the coming months. We ate simple but not terrible meals from whatever was lowest priced at the store (no animals back then) on groceryday and sometimes going vegetarian (couple days a week at least). I bought for 2 weeks and if something ran out..tough..until next groceryday. Unless it was baby formula or something. Now there are the children and animals to work into the equation. Picky eaters and feed needs can really eat into the monthly income. Here at least the pay back in the animals department will be some food in the freezer. We don't have much in the way of hay burners except for that lamb I am going to keep..maybe I should freezer him anyway. The rabbit, dog, cats, and hens that don't lay don't provide but what can you do? I was hoping to do more on the preserving side this year but the garden is being stubborn so we'll see how that goes. Our plan is to try and get ready for winter by fixing the roof while there's income, side the barn, get hay, and stock up both on feed and food stuffs. Oh and of course firewood. I'm glad that there will be lamb, beef, pork, and chicken in the freezer for the winter. We'll be getting rid of the gas guzzler for something more reliable because we'll be transporting the kids to school (no bus up here for that school) and paying down our debt load as much as possible so that if things get really lean we don't have that axe hanging over our heads. Richard has a great income but we have been careless and living beyond our means after years of striving to stay in strict boundaries. Punishment for sins now I guess. Or as my brother would say.."if you want to play the big times you gots to pay the big times". We'll pull through Sheep. I'm here for you anytime. Maybe we can be a support system. Hugs.

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2002

I think about our finances a lot. I don't have any fancy computer programs but I do keep my checkbook balanced to the penny. Sometimes I take my check registry booklet out of my purse and just look at it. Weird, huh? I think it must be those Scottish genes, my McVean grandparents can pinch a penny until Abe screams for mercy. :)

I just made a financial move that, while it makes sense on paper, still has made me very nervous. I've always liked to have a substantial savings account, at least 3 months salary. But I decided that it didn't make sense to be paying 10.13% interest on a home equity loan when I had money in the bank only earning 3%, so I cleaned out my savings and paid off the loan. Now I have less than a month's salary in savings and I hate it so I've gone into extra- frugal mode until my reserve is built back up again. I basically am living on one paycheck a month and putting my entire second check into the bank.

I do lie awake at night, especially if I've been reading the Freedom forum that day. If I had made better financial decisions after my divorce I could be in the country by now. Things are very slow in my department at work, we've had an open position since the beginning of the year that we still haven't filled. I have the lowest seniority here, so if cuts were to be made I would be the first to go. I don't think that's a possibility but it doesn't keep me from worrying.

It's also difficult that Keith doesn't share my views on money. Because we're not married and because I make at least three times as much salary as he does I have a very difficult time asking him to help out with the bills. He does pay half of the mortgage and all of the satellite TV bill, and I pick up all the rest. It does bug me that he spends at least $30 a week at the comic book shop while I'm taking PB&J sandwiches in my lunch. I know I should talk to him about it but I'm a wuss. :)

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2002

It seems like its all I do is think(worry) about money. We're in the early stages of refinancing our place (at 5.875%).

We do real well for quite a while without using the plastic then suddenly the shit hits the fan with all kindsa unexpected expenses. Not enuf cash on hand to deal with it of course so we break out the plastic and the bills start to pile up again. Chris handles the money and does a much better job than I would. Shes been juggling the CC accounts, taking advantage of the low introductory rates. They usually only last for 6-12 months but the rates are less that 4%. When the introductory rates are about to expire she switches over to a new card with new introductory rates. Its been helping alot to get that stuff whittled down.

I dunno whats in the big picture so we just keep on keeping on, doing the best we can to provide as much for ourself as we can.

I loathe money or maybe it'd be more accurate to say I loathe the lack of it because it seems to dictate nearly every aspect of our life. How to make money, save money, spend and invest money---- aaaarrrrrgh!

Time is not a renewable resource and soooo much of it seems to be used for some money related purpose and that just aint no way to live IMO.

TIME to go to work. I don't need a job. I need an income!

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2002

I'm thinking about the future cash flow also.

I'm not in the stock market, but my job (architecture) is based on how the economy is doing. Lousy stock market, entrepeneurs aren't so willing to invest in new buildings / ventures. Right now, we are still going great guns, seven years of booming construction. With the same forecast for at least two - three.

My three year old son MIGHT have some degree of autism, we are going through testing to be sure. The local school district will pick up tab for speech therapy, but only if (1)low family income, and (2) speaks only Spanish. Basically, you have to make less than poverty level and kids speak Spanish to get FREE Pre-K classes. So much for school taxes, grrrrr. So my wife and I will have to come up with the extra jack to have this work done if needed, not cheap where I am.

In addition, my wife's insurance, which covers the children, is slated to go up 200 per month; that is a $2400 a year increase :(! Not to mention that now we will now have two children in daycare, at least for this year.

We own our home and vehicles free and clear. We owe no one anything, but this year is going to be hard for us (especially me, my wife makes more than I do). Yeah, I'm a little worried, but things will work out, one way or the other. I was raised not having everything I wanted, but got more than what I needed. My wife is the same way, our children won't be spoiled.

In fact, I'm thinking of putting the little buggers to work; anybody know of any sweatshops around here ? just kiddin !

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2002

Being close to retirement age, I believe that we think about finances more than we did when our son was younger and living at home. Back then, all we thought about was paying the phone and electric bill. Our property was paid for and we never took on a mortgage (in the early days!). Food was never a problem....we raised all our own and ate well!! As long as we took in the $20 to $30 dollars a week extra to pay for grain and hay we were okay. But now...after "lending" money to our son and his family and taking on an extra loan to take care of my MIL, we wonder how much longer it will be before Harry can retire. We are both 50 and had hoped for early retirement since our mortgage will be paid off soon and we have no other monthly payments (other than our truck which will be paid off in a year). We have enough savings to live on for about 3 months or so (not including what we raise for food) and we have some stocks that...hopefully...will pay off soon. I really think that the two of us could live comfortably on the income we get from Harry's S.S. but will that still be around when we retire??!! With the unemployment in this state running about 3.7% (for the summer months) I'm sure I could get a job somewhere...but I've never had to work outside the home 'cause I've always taken care of putting the food on the table and done the paperwork and finances for our business. We both want soooo much to not have to worry about whether or not we'll be able to pay our property taxes each year OR pay the Federal government (state govt. we've never paid!).

Sheepish...since it's just the two of you, I'm sure that you guys will do alright!! All the more reason to become as self-sufficient as you possibly can...right????

-- Anonymous, June 26, 2002

Yeah, we'll be alright. I just have gotten edgy about the economy...the Dow stinks, the Euro is up, investor confidence stinks (thanks WorldCom, or whatever), Boeing is STILL laying off around here (gee what's another 30,000), and the Japanese thing scares the beejesus out of me (only the second largest economy in the world).

Hmm. And then I'm going to be the breadwinner for a while. 11 hours a day away from home. And we're going to raise and put up our food how? We owe a modest amount on our home, own our cars, and other things outright. We are not poor, just nervous. Oh wahhhh, eh?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. It helps. I'm just not so used to the idea of being both the inhouse and offsite resource center!

j.r., I'll be down to Nuevo Laredo in the maquilladoras soon. Pero my espanol is el stinko estos dias. And I can't sew!

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Starr County, the county about 30 miles northwest of us hit 110 yesterday. 80%+ humidity. A bit on the balmy side . . .

sheepish, if you were serious about Nuevo Laredo, bring sunscreen (SPF Mercury) and some shades.

If you are really serious about work, try typing in "Rioplex" on a goggle search. The Rioplex is the Rio Grande Valley / Northern Mexican Frontier area, where business is exploding. McAllen, Texas, the city I'm working in, is the 5th quickest expanding area in the U.S.. The maquiladoras are going great guns down here. If work gets real scarce over where you're at, try looking down here.

Just don't forget the info in the first paragraph. I heard a joke a couple of days ago . . . The state motto has been changed to "Damn its HOT!" :^)

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

j.r., I would absolutely perish in that heat!!! I'm a real Pacific Northwest kind of gal...No matter how poor I get, I'll have to stay put until the salmon and the forests are gone (the way it's going, that could be next Tuesday!).

I am brushing up on my Canadian, since Spanish is so hard. ;-)

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Sheepish, I can see how you'd be feelin frazzled. I forgot what Mr S is going to school for?

Don't get yourself in a place where you feel so overworked that you're miserable. We only have so many hours in the day; sometimes we have to make priority choices, and then remember they are temporary. Heck everything is temporary! If money is your priority right now, then skip all the food production stuff; its not the end of the world if you stop growing all your own food for awhile, just seems like it at the time. (this is a speech I am accustomed to giving to myself the past few months). And go with your gut instincts, not your fear.

As far as lying awake worrying about finances, I personally have never done that. I was on welfare years ago for a few months, and it sucked mostly cuz of the way government people treat you like garbage, but I always knew even then that it would turn out ok and I would always be taken care of. Since then, I've spent the past several years really teaching myself (brainwashing?) the concepts of abundance, so the concept of scarcity rarely enters my range of vision anymore at all.

I keep a few hundred dollars cash hidden away (buried) in case of temporary disruptions of systems, and lotsa food. The Y2K preparations most of us made make me feel plenty secure, and we have a large generator. Only debt we have is this house.

And John, I think there is some wisdom in the idea that if one hates money, one will never have much. If one looks at money as a good thing, as a tool with which to do good, even as an expression of the universe's abundance (love), then that positive frequency is the one that is attracted.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

EM...we keep our cash "stash" in the deep freeze! Along with a few CD's. We just don't trust those safety deposit boxes at the banks AND we don't want Uncle Sam to know exactly what we have for mad money!! We'd just get taxed on it.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

So you literally have 'cold hard cash', eh Marcia? :)

I would worry about theives lookin in there I guess; where mine is NO ONE else in the world knows.........I spose I should put a note someplace for the girls in case I croak.

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Marcia, I understand that the freezer is one of the first places thieves look for cash! I guess it's safer from fire in there, but thieves know all about it. Not that any of us have this problem, but I remember reading a novel with the diamond stash hidden in the fish tank gravel!

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Yeah, I know, Joy. But our house is very heavily guarded by Smith & Wesson :-)!! Our deep freezer is in the cellar which is not accessible from inside the house. So our thinking on this is that even if we did not hear someone break into the cellar...we'd definitely hear them rummaging around in the freezer and we'd get 'em on the way out!! And my freezer is sooo disorganized even I can't find anything in there :-)!

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Plus a freezer is the best place for all important documents, incase of fire. Picture it..a scene of blackened rubble..a couple trying to see whats left..hubby opens the freezer "Honey, its all ok..here's the insurance policies and our will. Oooh look! Roast chicken!!"

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

Jeez, it sounds so hard for some of us! I want to play "dad" and council some of you guys, but it's not my place, and anyhow it sounds like everyone's gonna do ok in the long run.

Generically, though, refinance if you're paying high interest rates. If you're stuck with high credit card bills, maybe investigate a low interest home equity line of credit to get the costs down.

Give up on something which you don't really need: smoking, alcohol, those two dollar espresso's you get every time the car passes the stand, etc. (Been there, done that!)

Do anything you can to get the mortgage paid off. You won't believe what a boost that gives you every month. (I personally, though I've never made more than 20K in a year, paid off my house a LONG time ago, mainly because I bought a cheap piece of land, and built the house a little at a time for cash, and dragged dead trees out of the woods, drove them to the mill in my van, and was able to save big $ on building expenses that way.

As much as possible, do all your own homebuilding, or do work trades.

Start a savings account for car expenses. I used to put 15 cents per mile I drove into one, and when a "surprise" repair came up, I was prepared for it. Also, I always had enough to buy a "good" used car when the time came. Hope that isn't' sounding preachy; just some advice I've given my kids over the years, mostly...

Speaking of which, it's a lot easier now that the kids are grown up and on their own (more or less :) A little money goes a long way without the kids around. And none of them are in college, at the moment, at least, which helps.

Sheepish, I sure agree with you about the stinking economy. A few years ago, I was convinced by my hon, and a few others that I should stop putting all my money into real estate, but rather should "diversify". I was easily convinced, I have to admit, as it made good sense, but all the stocks and stuff we bought have lost almost half the value. No gain at all, and we'd have been better putting the money into a checking account!

Gotta go; honey's home, and probably hungry!

JOJ

-- Anonymous, June 27, 2002

JOJ, I hear you. Real estate is still okay. My stocks were mostly my 401k, which I took out prior to y2K and stuffed into an IRA (CD- based) at a bank (folks laughed). I figured that since it was my retirement money (!), I had better keep it safe. Of course, even in a bank, I was concerned. After rollover, folks were making fun of me, but I was still not sure that things were stable enough to put in the stock market or anything else. So luckily, I just sort of parked it there...earning its piddly 3% or so. However, I still *have* it, plus the piddly 3% or so, whereas Mr. S's 401k has been ravaged by the market (WorldCom was a big chunk, for example). We're okay. We've never been rich, but we have tried to diversify what we have (had?!). I've never felt comfortable with the stock market (I don't get it), but when I was working in the corporate world, I would have been nuts not to do the 401k thing, b/c I had an employer match $).

I keep trying to not go backwards, but I'm feeling tired from swimming upstream. At least I'm still swimming.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2002

EM: Note I ammended my loathing money comment to loathing the lack of it. I know that too isn't pc in new-age-speak and I hear thots similar to yours from my wife. I also know it can be a force for good and when I win the lottery I'll happily don my philanthropy hat but till then "I owe, I owe, so its off to work I go."

With all due respect some of that line of thot seems like an exercise in self delusion but maybe so what, like we're not deluded already! At least that yours feels better.

-- Anonymous, June 28, 2002

Sheepish, glad you kept your money in a safe place. I had one small investment in a mutual which I bought because I was "chicken" according to my broker sister in law. It was guaranteed not to LOSE any money, but was not expected to gain much, compared to other offerings. It was the only mutual I owned which didn't lose big time last year or two (like 40% losses). I wish all my stuff would have done so "well".

Hang in there!

-- Anonymous, July 01, 2002

Oh, John, thanks much for your due respect! I'm accustomed to annoying folks with my blatherings on many a subject, so don't give a thought to offending me. :)

Course I don't let that lil ol fact shut me up; I still often find people connect with my ideas every once in awhile, or at least occassionally nudge them to think a new way. Well they're not really usually MY ideas anyway..like they say, there ARE no new ideas. And of course most times other folks get me to do the same, which makes life all the more interesting.

Speaking of which, I reckon pretty much all stuff that's labelled 'new age' is not new at all, just really old stuff being brought back to the forefront, being "remembered" so to speak.

Pertaining to my perspective of abundance coming naturally to those who are functioning on the frequency to receive it: to me, personally, this is a truth. It took some years to get to this point, but I could no longer deny what had been made obvious in my life experiences. Everywhere I saw around me people who illustrated to me that the most generous folks had the most riches, however one defines it. Their generosity usually wasnt evident until I did some research, but it was there, often hiding in the shadows. I don't personally believe we get more generous cus we have more stuff, but the other way around. As Wayne Dyer says, "You'll see it when you believe it."

I understand that this kinda thing annoys people, and I guess its cuz it makes them feel guilty or something. "It's not my fault!" But I don't think this whole concept is about fault, it's about responsibility, and there's a huge difference to me. Feeling responsible for every single itty bitty thing that happens in our lives, on an energetic level, is very very empowering, because when we realize what havoc or what emptiness or what just plain lousy luck we can cause, we soon realize what miracles we can create with that same awesome power used in a new and different way.

And that is a big part of what I am trying to do with my entire life, and why I think we're here.

I tried to bring up this subject once before, but it went down in flames, much sadness cuz its a fascinatin one to me, and gets me very excited. (well maybe excited is a bit too strong....hows about gets me breathin hard........nah, that's not right..........maybe wakes me up will do?)

Blessings and abundance to us all,

-- Anonymous, July 02, 2002

Feeling responsible for every single itty bitty thing that happens in our lives, on an energetic level, is very very empowering, because when we realize what havoc or what emptiness or what just plain lousy luck we can cause, we soon realize what miracles we can create with that same awesome power used in a new and different way.

Wow EM, what a powerful statement! I think it's interesting how people are so eager to claim the bad things that happen to them (i.e., I have such bad luck...this sort of thing always happens to me...I can never get ahead...etc.) but we're reluctant to claim good things for ourselves. Why do you think that is? Remnants of the so- called Protestant work ethic perhaps, or those old ingrained beliefs that modesty is best, avoiding vanity, etc. I think that the "self- esteem" movement so prominent in society today is a reaction to this older way of thinking, but the problem is that self-esteem isn't being taught in a context of gratitude and compassion, so it just ends up being selfishness.

-- Anonymous, July 03, 2002