Mike Oppenheimer of "Let Us Reason" ministries writes the following:

"In Considering Deliverance Ministries

& DEMON POSSESSION

It has become popular today to rely on deliverance for the quick and powerful way to rid our faults and warfare. Those who teach demon possession in Christians are Neil T. Anderson, Peter Wagner, and a host of others. Ray Bubeck goes even further saying "I ask you to look all through the sexual organs and function of my body for any evil spirit activity he goes on to ask the Holy Spirit to "search out all my bones, blood circulation, nerve circuitry, muscles, tissues, glands, hair, skin and every cell for any wicked spirit activity against my physical body." (Spiritual warfare basics pg.23 Mark. Bubeck)

With teaching Christians having demons almost anything can happen. What is neglected is the idea that they can lie and deceive those who are doing the deliverance! Satan can certainly have his demons control Christians from the outside as they give their will over into doing their temptations. Practicing Sin still creates bondage and can open one up to having little control over certain aspects in their lives.. This is called oppression and it certainly is different than possession. The word used in the gospels is demonized (Greek Diamonizomai) meaning to be controlled by a demon. The common expression is "to have a demon" Mt.11:18 which expresses residency. By this it means this entity can have direct control of a person from the inside. With this comes a certain degree of derangement in the mind or physical upset in the body. (Mk.5:1-20 Mt.12:43-45.) It best that one should distinguish control from harassment.

1 Thess.2:18 The degree of control is different for a Christian than a non Christian. As Christians the enemy can control from with out not from within even though at times it can seem the same as possession. With the believer deliverance is a matter of the will. With a non believer they have no spiritual authority 1 Jn.5:18: "He who is born of God keeps himself and the wicked one does not touch him. This is an assurance and is clarified in the Greek that he cannot lay hold of or fasten to. In Jn.17:15 Jesus prays that "they should not be taken out of the world but that the father should keep them from the evil one." Again a provision of not being in a relationship with the enemy that we were formerly delivered from. We need faith to endure, because there is no promise of permanent deliverance from evil. We are always to pray for deliverance from evil (Mt. 6:13). as long as we are in this world there will be evil encroaching upon us. There is no prayer , method or incantation for relief, just faith to persevere.

1 Jn.5:21 John tells the believer "to keep from idols" while the scripture is clear behind an idol is a demon, John does not tell us to keep from demons. There is no concern raised like this anywhere in the Bible. We are warned of the unfruitful works of darkness but the bible never teaches that light becomes darkness unless in the case one abandons the faith.

The Biblical concept is that man is comprised of two components. The material body and the immaterial spirit. Those who promote Christian demonization say that the unclean dwells in our body and not the spirit. What they overlook is that the old nature still dwells in us and that it expresses itself by the body. Yielding to the desires of the flesh can bring one into bondage but this certainly cannot be put in the same category as demonization. While it makes one do the will of Satan instead of God it should not be confused with occupation. In Gal. 5:19-22, much of what is blamed on demons is really man's fallen nature, expressing itself through his flesh. Demons can entice and exaggerate our fleshly weaknesses but the blame lies in ourselves .

While demonic power can affect the outside of our body and our emotions and minds they can never come into the innermost man, one needs to distinguish between oppression and possession .Satan has a limit in dealing with a believer otherwise we are no better off then one who is a non believer. If every time they sin it is blamed on demonic activity than what would be the difference when we sin. Then Christ cannot protect His people.

Demons cast out of Christians are not seen in the scriptures. Neither are they left over from the old life nor new occupants. The scripture absolutely militates against this. We are the temple of God not of both God and the devils emissaries. What a confusion for those involved in binding their own personal demon spirits.

Larry Thomas warned against what is being promoted as demon invasion in Christians. "The real potential for problems in the Christian life is blaming things on the demonic and neglecting normal Christian growth and maturity. It is this kind of lack of maturity in the lives of many believers, because they are looking for the quick fix of a Neil Anderson deliverance, that will prove the greater damage. I am concerned that believers wake up to the false ways of Dr. Anderson." (Biblical Perspectives Vol.V, no.3 1992)

Gil Rugh comments on this by saying "Believers cannot be possessed by demons…The scripture is clear on this matter. …Christ's work was sufficient. There is no further deliverance that must take place. If there were, salvation in Christ would be incomplete. If the church would stop and think through its theology of scripture we would realize that something is drastically wrong with what is being promoted by those who teach that believers can be demonized." (Gil Rugh Demonization and the believer- an unbiblical teaching exposed, pg.26 1994)

Paul writes of the spiritual army of the devil that he lists in Eph.6: 12 in Col.2:15 "Having disarmed principalities and powers He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it." The devil and his angels fate is already sealed yet God allows them to continue. But they have no power over a Christian. He works in the sons of disobedience and will continue to do so until he is bound by God, not us. He can lie to us and lead us into sin by its a matter of our will bending to his lies. all one has to do is resist and he is defeated.

As Christians we are Christ’s possession owned by God. (1 Cor.6:20, 1 Jn.4:15) We have been bought with a price and are born again of incorruptible seed 1 Pt.1:23. 1Jn.4:4 tells us "Greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world." The Holy Spirit is able to keep us separate and clean when we allow him to do so. If we give in we can’t say he is weaker it really is a matter of choice and an exercise of our will. For one to believe in Christian demon possession a number of factors need to be ignored. Christ is our good shepherd would he let his people get wolfed. While we may unwittingly step over the line this does not annul the grace and protection of the Lord. This would mean God deals with us as a legalist every time wittingly or not we violate his boundaries we lose his protection and are at the mercy of the enemy. It is true that certain areas need to be avoided like the plague (the occult, sex outside marriage, homosexuality, and various altered states of conciousness). Yet God is greater than these. If not there are no guarantees for anything when do wrong. we would walk in a state of paranoia not victory.

God does not sleep on the job, nor has he put his protection in our hands and strength. We are to be strong in the grace of the Lord not be paranoid of the enemy.

In Eph.4:27 we are told not to give the devil a opportunity (foothold, a place, a beachhead. this is a military term meaning to capture an area within enemy territory. We can give areas cover to the enemy because they are not submitted over to the Lord. In Eph.5:18 He also tells us to be continually filled with the Spirit. We cannot have a victorious Christian walk without yielding and submitting to Gods ways. To be filled means to be controlled by the Spirit which means not being disobedient and doing what is right in the Lord’s eyes. The cure for one taken captive in disobedience is Jm.4:7 "Submit yourselves to God "first" ( whatever you are disobedient in change your behavior by yielding to the Spirit) "then" resist the devil and he will flee". If you are dead to the sin he is tempting you with he cannot make you react. Peter also agrees stating "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the Devil, as a roaring lion, walks about seeing who he may devour, whom you are to resist steadfast in the faith". We are not to have power encounters and conversations but stand in the Lord by faith, "trust" we lean on him the battle is his, if we lean on ourselves the battle is ours. The main objective is to give up no ground to the enemy .

Paul says we were once of darkness now we are light. Light always rules over the darkness. Try bringing darkness in the room when the light is on. Only if there is no light there can there be darkness. Scripture never says that we can go on and off like a light switch.

While the scripture says that the Holy Spirit can dwell with sin and that He can dwell in the presence of a demon. It certainly is different to say a demon can dwell with the Holy Spirit. We see the violent reaction of demons to the presence of Jesus and what is Holy. God does not have to flee but demons do. The Scripture shows them in agony just being near Jesus.

1Cor. 3:16: "do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you." It is not the Holy Spirit plus a demon or demon's!

The consequences of believing one is possessed can certainly be even more devastating than actually being inhabited. The focus than shifts from actually dealing with the problem and taking responsibility for one actions to blaming it on a unseen enemy a demon which is not even there. The lie of having the demon can be just as bad and what one really needs deliverance from is the lie of being inhabited with so called possession.

In deliverance services we are told to find out the head demon by asking his name and the rest will follow. At the time of Jesus their were exorcisms performed within Judaism. For this to be accomplished the exorcist needed to communicate with the demon. In this exercise the name of the head demon would be invoked and told to leave any other sub demons would also have to obey. Today the name of Jesus is petitioned for power used as a incantation from everything such as releasing wealth and healing and certainly to take back things for god.

Deliverance ministries are conducted in various forms from personal counseling to group deliverance’s. This consists of people walking around the room and led to people by the spirit speaking to them. They then lay their hands on them and call out the head strongman first and the rest eventually follow. Names such as Leviathan, spirits of anger, jealousy and religious spirits are called out. Ancestral curses are broken also. All these so called demons are listed as works of the flesh that we all are still capable of doing. Deliverance books are written like psychological manuals that claim that if one follows this methodology they will be successful, with the help of the Lord of course. Much of what is derived in these books is from personal experiences which are outside Biblical parameters and certainly not mentioned in Scripture."

What are your thoughts?

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2002

Answers

Ben Alexader of "ESP (exposing Satan's power) Ministries" writes: I have heard this question asked many times in my lifetime. While the answer is quite straightforward, NO! a Christian cannot be demon possessed, there are other things that by demonic intervention, can affect a Christian. Let's look a little deeper into this situation.

When a Christian receives Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit enters that Christian's body, soul and spirit. God has claimed that person for His own and as a result, demons cannot occupy the same place as the Holy Spirit. Satan knows this and that is why he tries so hard to get to people first and have his demons or demonic influence control or affect that person.

Even though the Holy Spirit has entered the "new Christian," demons can certainly try to plant thoughts or to affect the thinking process of an individual. I remember a story that a famous evangelist told about a day he was in his office and he was in his quiet time reading and studying. From out of nowhere, he stated vile, lewd sexual thoughts came into his mind. He was absolutely taken by surprise by this but knew just what to do. He went into the office next door, which was his associate's office, and asked him to pray with him to banish these "darts" from Satan. With the prayer offered, the darts ceased at that time and his mind was able to get back to the studying and reading he needed to be doing.

Now I do not think that Satan is behind every bad thing that happens to people, or that every bad thought comes from the devil. But I do believe the devil and all his demons are looking for people that they can affect with their "darts" and look for the weakness in that person and send their "darts" precisely at that point. Many times he is successful. We see over and over again and again, "good" people failing sexually and becoming involved in immoral situations. Even some of our friends, relatives or acquaintances have been affected. Some tell about it to others and in doing so are asking for help in the situation. Others do not tell and let themselves get further and further into trouble. Before they know it, they have committed sin and they have their lives in shambles.

Look at Peter and what he did and how he was affected. Peter was a saved person. He was a "rock" for Christ, but he still denied Christ three times. Why? Well, it certainly wasn't reasonable to think Peter went from being such a "rock," to being a wimp for Christ, in such a short time. He had to have been affected by some sort of demonic suggestion or demonic involvement.

In the case of Ananias and his wife selling their property and lying about how much they got and how much they gave, Peter himself asked them why they had allowed Satan to fill their hearts to lie to the Holy Spirit. They were Christian believers, but they lied and were swayed from the truth and the good of what they were doing. That is satanic influence. Many of you, I am sure, have had thoughts come into your mind and you cannot figure out where they came from. Where does temptation come from? Well, you know it comes from the devil, so it also shows that we have to be on constant guard and have our "shields up" at all times. As one author puts it, "Demons cannot live in Christian hearts, but they perch on Christian shoulders and whisper in Christian ears."

As we realize the demons and Satan himself can be literally "perching on your shoulder," we also must realize we cannot just go through each day doing the same old thing and not growing in the Lord and realizing his power. We need to constantly build our "arsenal" of defense, by studying His Word, memorizing His Word and giving the Holy Spirit within us the weapons to help fight our fight against this formidable enemy.

Christians, unfortunately, think just because they have turned their lives over to the Lord and had the Holy Spirit come into their lives, that they are safe. Satan loves to hear this. He has a good chance of wrecking that Christian's life, because he is so powerful. Christians are not building their arsenal. Christians are not "in training" to ensure they are ready to do battle with demons or the devil himself. Christians today seem to do just enough to stay "status quo." The reading and praying that the majority of Christians do is just enough to keep their knowledge and battle expertise at the same level as the day they gave their lives to the Lord.

The research that goes on nationally supports this statement. Even our Christian community at large, watches more television every day than reading or praying. Our young people, generally speaking, are the same - little Bible time or prayer throughout the week, but they have all their socials, extracurricular activities and the like, but they are not growing in the Lord and strengthening themselves for the battles ahead.

People, we must realize that Satan has a plan for our lives just as God has a plan. Both are going to fight for each and every one of us. Now God is the stronger of the two, we know that, but He also tells us what we need to do and how to do it and what will happen if we do what He tells us to do. However, if Satan can interfere with that advice and get the person off track and keep them off track, he will probably win the battle.

Most all of us know what the plan of defense is. We have a full set of armor ready and available for each and every one of us. God says with this armor we are to face the enemy and stand. Now, God has fashioned a plan of defense. We are to gird ourselves with the truth. It is a belt to guard our middle part. It is what God has spoken. This is what will strengthen us mightily. We must wear the breastplate of righteousness of integrity, of moral rectitude and right standing before God. This covers the area of the heart and lungs. No arrow of the enemy can penetrate this perfect protection. Other parts are also accounted for in that our feet should wear the good news of the Gospel; it makes us firm footed and mobile against the enemy. Then we should always have our shield of faith, confidence in the entire work of Christ on our behalf. This can turn away ALL enemy attacks, even though they may be flaming missiles.

Our head is a vital spot; a shining helmet is provided, the helmet of salvation. We have the offensive equipment in the sword, the Word of God, the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, with these we can strike out against the enemy. However, with all of this, we need to consider prayer as a supporter of the whole armor of God. Sounds simple doesn't it? If so simple then why are the majority of Christians not outfitting themselves with God's armor? Well, I believe this again is part of the devil's plan. If he can keep our lives so jumbled, so busy, so busy, so confusing, then we will "not have time" to get the armor or be able to put it on. The outcome? Sin! We are doomed to come under the full attack of the devil and his demons.

It is interesting to see some of today's society believe in things they cannot see, smell, taste or feel. Today we are told of the different rays from the sun that can go into our eyes and damage the nerves and lose some of our eyesight. Yet, we respond to a scientist, who tells the general public this is what they have found and to do what they are told and buy certain sunglasses to protect their eyes and wear sun screen to protect against the "cancer inducing rays." Yet, mention to some Christians that there are demons running around trying to affect them in some way and they will look at you as if you have a third eye or the like.

Christians must realize they are in mortal danger without the armor of God. Satan's time is running short and he knows it. He will be "pulling out all stops" in an effort to get back some of the most dedicated Christians we have. He will be working overtime to derail new Christians; another group that if you tell them about demons, they are not spiritually mature enough to understand what you are talking about.

Jesus knew about demons and about Satan. He conversed with demons in casting them out and even conversed with Satan when He was tempted by him. Jesus knew the power of Satan and his demons. Even though the disciples were given power to cast out demons, there was the one time they could not cast the demon out. This occasion supports the fact that demons are very powerful entities. This particular demon, Jesus said, had to have a different type of approach to get him to leave the person. Folks, we just don't give enough credence to the fact that Satan and his demonic army are very powerful adversaries and must be recognized and dealt with on that basis. When the world saw Saddam Hussein do what he did in Kuwait and the world said enough is enough and we must do something against him, nobody underestimated him. General Schwartzkoff certainly did not underestimate him. There were huge forces of troops and equipment sent in. Many countries' forces were amassed to ensure there would be enough power to do what was necessary. In the same light, each and every Christian needs to realize the power of the devil and his demons. They ARE there. They ARE here. They DO put thoughts into your mind, your brain, into your thought processes.

Yet, if we know this and take the appropriate action, we can be the winners. If you could only have seen and talked with the people that I have who have been controlled by demonic forces, you could see the first-hand proof of demons and their work. Some of the tragedies of today, with mothers or fathers killing their babies, or fathers sexually abusing their children, or other like horrors, are being blamed on a newly discovered type of "syndrome." Well, I am going to tell you point blank, there may be some syndromes floating around that lawyers or juries can blame these horrifying tragedies on, however, I believe there is only one person behind all of these things and he is the devil himself and his accomplices.

So, while I gave you an absolute NO! to answer the question, "Can Christians Be Demon Possessed?" I hope I have shown you how Christians can be affected in every aspect of their life by demon induced thoughts or suggestions. It is a very real happening and one which can lead to one's spiritual death. Through Satan and his demons' works, a Christian formerly headed for heaven, can be derailed and end up in a fast lane headed for hell.

Now, I also warn you not to get paranoid and think every thought you think is being affected by a demon. But do be aware that where you do not have the spiritual armor on, there is the possibility that you could -have thoughts being planted by "spiritual darts" from the enemy.

The answer to all of this is fairly simple. Jesus gave us His way of dealing with things and what we should and should not do. If we approach things with the attitude of how Jesus would react to your situation or what He would do in this situation, you are on safe ground. Like I mentioned before, put on the armor and Pray, Pray, Pray, and then Pray some more.

Invest your time in prayer; it pays dividends that are out of this world!!!

God Bless,

Ben"

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2002

Philip,

Neil Anderson does not teach that a Christian can be demon-possessed. He teaches that a Christian can be influenced by demons just as you have suggested.

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2002

Not true Barry:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/anderson/general.htm http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/anderson/demon.htm

-- Anonymous, May 25, 2002

Philip,

I have read several of Neil's books that deal with subject and talked to him in person -- he does not believe that a Christian can be demon-possessed, period.

I would rather get my information straight from Neil Anderson than from "Biblical Discernment Ministries". I am familiar with the website you gave links to. This guy is about just about every single minister/ministry on the scene today. While he posts some valuable information, much of it is pulled out of context, and some of it is just plain made up.

IHS,

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2002

It comes down to a difference between demon POSSESSION and demon OPPRESSION. And sadly, many Christians "invite" Satan and his minions to OPPRESS them by being involved in things of a demonic nature.

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2002

BTW -- just what is a "true" Christian? I mean, you either are a Christian, or you're not a Christian.

Of course, I believe I understand the reason behind the use of the term ... but isn't it sad we need to qualify our words in such a way as that ... too bad we can't just call Bible things by Bible names anymore.

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2002

Well Barry, I can see that I have questioned another one of your “sacred cows”, so to speak. I am not a bit surprised that you might have that impression of Anderson, since these guys often say what people want to hear in person or in private, but they pull out their more bizarre doctrines in sympathizing audiences. I care not what he has told you in private or in person – his writings are readily available to all. Therefore, your admonition is irrelevant. I don’t have the time or the money to follow Anderson’s every move. For anyone out there that is willing to do the research, here are some referrals that might be helpful (copy and paste in your URL window):

http://www.equip.org/free/DA080.htm

http://www.equip.org/free/DA081.htm

http://www.equip.org/free/DA082.htm

http://www.equip.org/free/DA083.htm

http://www.equip.org/free/DA084.htm

http://www.pfo.org/wdemons.htm

http://www.withchrist.org/MJS/neil_anderson.htm

http://www.withchrist.org/MJS/neil_anderson2.htm

Meanwhile, consider these Anderson Statements:

The title of this Anderson/Mylander book, Setting Your Church Free, makes it clear that its theme is freeing churches from bondage- Satanic bondage. Churches are "delivered" from demons and curses, and their memories are healed. Entire congregations are subjected to extended periods of spiritual exercises and numerous steps. Renunciation is a favorite means of theirs in solving church problems, as if Satan could be affected by their renunciations: We renounce attacks of the devil in stimulating doubts and discouragement. We renounce the spirit of darkness and heaviness that seeks to destroy our church. We renounce the spirit of fear that paralyzes open sharing. We renounce any foothold gained in our church by the evil one through past hurts and traumas. We renounce Satan's using discouragement as a tool against us. We renounce the "destroyer" spirit and all his attacks on our church and community (p. 264). One of the prayers used in the process of delivering a church is: We thank You for opening our eyes to see the strength, weaknesses, good memories, painful memories, corporate sins and spiritual attacks of evil enemies. Thank You for helping us grasp our spiritual battle with the demonic powers (p. 320). COMPLETELY DEMONIC -- Everything negative is attributed to Satan and demons: Consider the problem of falling asleep in a church service. Some people, of course, are so exhausted that they sleep any time they become quiet and relaxed. But others sleep only in church, not in other settings. In these cases, it is not exhaustion at all, nor is it a boring sermon, but rather a deceitful ploy of the devil (p. 246). GENERATIONAL TRANSFERENCE --According to these demon-oriented leaders, demons can be passed down not only through family generations, but also church congregation generations: Familiar spirits can be passed on from one generation to the next if not renounced and your spiritual heritage in Christ not proclaimed. You are not guilty for the sin of an ancestor, but because of sin, Satan has gained access to your family. Because familiar spirits can follow generational lines with a single family, so can they with generations of church families. Main Street Church opened doors to the evil one through the scandal of sexual sin on the part of former pastors (pp. 240,241). DISCERNING DUO -- Neil and Chuck comprise an invincible team when it comes to demons: Neil and I discern a demonic presence at work in Main Street Church. We see a fallen angel or evil spirit targeting this church (p. 240). Neil and I routinely experience the adversary's opposition before our conferences and seminars on spiritual conflicts. Some of these attacks are mere harassment of increasing temptation or accusations; others are interpersonal in our marriages and families. A few are physical [and Neil has demon tooth marks to prove it!] (p. 248). Whenever Neil and I do conferences, we ask an unusual [setup] question. "How many here have been awakened, either terrorized or alertly awakened, at precisely 3:00 A.M?" At least one-third of the audience will respond that they have [every one a Charismatic] - Chances are they are being targeted, as Satan sends demons to terrorize and harass (p. 233). CHARISMATIC CHILD ABUSE -- Charismatic families condition, train, and raise their own demonists, from childhood: The problem of lying and stealing continued until one day the eight- year-old boy suddenly blurted out, "Daddy, I had to, the devil said he would kill you if I didn't." The pastor-father told me [Neil] that if he had not heard me talk about the battle for our mind, he would not have responded properly and the real [!] problem would have gone unresolved. Instead of saying, "How dare you blame it on the devil?" he asked his son if he was hearing voices that were threatening him. The boy said he was [of course he would], and then the father explained that the devil was only trying to destroy their family and ministry. Once the boy understood that he was paying attention to a deceiving spirit, he stopped lying and stealing. I wish I could say that was an isolated experience, but we are running into similar situations all over the world, especially with children of spiritual [Charismatic] leaders (pp. 71, 72). NEVER A QUESTION! -- There is no possible alternative to Neil's discernment: Ten minutes into my sermon a young man suddenly fell out of his chair and had a seizure. Two of our doctors in the church immediately attended to him. When the nature of the problem was made known to me, I stopped and prayed. Somehow I knew it was a spiritual problem designed to distract the people from my message. Publicly I asked God's protection and commanded Satan to release the young man. He did [take note, Archangel Michael!]. After the service, the chairman of the board said he did not like the way I prayed because it implied that the young man had a spiritual problem. I told him that I didn't imply it; I clearly said it. Then I asked him to inquire what happened to the young man after I prayed. He never brought up the subject again (p. 72). In his zeal to bring Satan into every situation, Neil doesn't always keep within scriptural bounds. Revelation 12:10 says, "... for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God night and day." Have you ever struggled with thoughts such as, "I'm stupid," or "I'm ugly," or "I can't," or "God doesn't love me," or "I'm different from others"? I know you have, because the Bible says Satan accuses the brethren night and day (p. 25). In conjunction with this constant Satan-blaming we might consider Dr. Swindoll's previously-quoted statement: While present in the body (perhaps in the region of the soul) the evil force can work havoc within the life, bringing the most extreme thoughts imaginable into his or her conscious awareness. Couldn't this explain how some believers can fall into such horrible sins? WRONG SOURCE -- The indwelling Adam flesh-life and nature need neither external nor internal assistance from Satan, his demons, nor anyone else. When it comes to sin, the old man is totally self- sufficient. "The works of the flesh are manifest [evidently not to Neil and company], which are these: adultery, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and the like" (Gal. 5:19-21). The all-important factor for Christian freedom and growth, and the answer to sin in the life of the believer, is totally missing in these deliverance ministries. They have substituted Satan and demons for the scriptural source of all sins--the fleshly, Adamic old man; self himself! Dr. Anderson's ministry, via seminars and numerous books, is an attempt to free individuals, and churches, from bondage--the bondage of Satan and demons. His method is to show believers that they are in Christ, so that they can then take their "authority" and get free. TOO MUCH TOO SOON -- The majority dealt with are Charismatics, those who are barely into the Christian life--hence he is seeking to apply the highest truth to those who are in the lowest condition: The one common denominator of all the people whom I have had the privilege of helping to find their freedom in Christ was the complete lack of assurance of salvation and ignorance of their spiritual heritage (p. 49). It takes us an average of about three hours to help a person find freedom in Christ (p. 26). That "freedom," of course, is freedom from the so-called bondage of Satan and demons. It has nothing to do with freedom from the scriptural source of sins, the indwelling Adamic life, in which dwelleth no good thing. Hence, despite all of this deliverance ministry, the hapless individual remains in his "O wretched man that I am" condition--perpetual Romans Seven. Dr. Anderson's timeless claim is similar to that of Dr. Solomon's: Some people have been psychoanalyzed for 25 years [consider that total $$ expenditure!] and they gradually get worse. God meets a person's need almost instantly. I usually see patients from three to five times (National Courier [Charismatic], Nov. 4, 1975, p. 33). BY-PASSED CROSS -- There is no establishing a Christian in his position in Christ until he is first established in his death unto sin (personified by the indwelling Adam). Normally, the experiential realization of this is a matter of years. There is no leaping over self to abide in Christ--if attempted, self will leap upon you! Neil Anderson and Charles Solomon spend a few hours with an individual. Tell that to these typical leaders, who averaged twenty years more or less, in order to discover, and rest in, their position in Christ: Pierson, Chapman, Tauler, Moody, Goforth, Mueller, Taylor, Trumbull, Meyer, Murray, Havergal, Guyon, Mabie, Gordon, Hyde, Mantle, McCheyne, McConkey, Deck, Paxson, Stoney, Saphir, Carmichael, Hopkins, et al. These demonization ministries are Satan-centered, with Christ brought in to save the situation. If they were Christ-centered they would seek to minister the two aspects of the Christian life: death to sin (the old man, the law, the world, and Satan), and Christ as Life, with the Christian life hidden with Christ in God. Romans. 5-7 comes before Romans 8. All ascended life is predicated upon death. The believer is to be taught to count himself dead indeed unto sin, and alive unto God in Christ Jesus (Rom. 6:11). Then, if there is to be any dealing with Cross-defeated Satan and his demons-all of whom are under the Sovereign Father's control at all times--it is simply to stand, and resist, upon the basis of his total defeat at Calvary. THIRD WORLD INFATUATION -- Neil Anderson, Peter Wagner, Timothy Warner and the others are constantly deprecating the Scripture- centered American (Western) churches, in favor of the spirit- centered, third world Eastern churches: Western churches have tended to dismiss the activity of witch doctors or shamans as mere superstition [what else, if not Scripture-based?] As it begins to emerge in our country [via the Charismatics], however, more thinking Christians are taking a second look (p. 256). Lot's wife also took a suicidal second look. And as for thinking, the subjective Charismatics do not think, they only feel--"I feel," I sense," I'm aware," etc. It is interesting that, although their situations are hardly perfect, churches in third world countries have grown significantly during this time. Several factors make their situation different than in our country. First, the church in Africa, South America, and Indonesia is not as sectarian as it is in America. They have a sense of greater unity because Christ is more prominent. Second, they have a greater appreciation for the reality of the spirit world. Third, they are far less self-centered and narcissistic than the Western world (p. 60). The Third World church is almost entirely Charismatic. What may exist of their superior "unity" is based upon the Charismatic's "Jesus," a far cry from the dispensational Head and Life of the Church, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ. Furthermore, their appreciation for the "reality" of the spirit world is exemplified by the Satan- and demon-centered ministries of Neil Anderson and the rest of the Charismatic realm.

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2002

Philip,

Neil Anderson is not a "sacred cow" with me at all. I didn't even say I agree with all that he has to say on this subject. But he does not teach a Christian can be demon possessed. Influenced by, yes, but not possessed.

It seems like whenever I disagree with you I get accused of having some extreme position that I have to hold onto. Nothing could be further from the truth. You can believe whatever you want to about Neil Anderson, true or not, and it won't bother me in the slightest. My only concern when you post these things here is that you get your facts straight. Neither Biblical Discernment Ministries or Hank Hannegraf are the greatest sources.

IHS,

-- Anonymous, May 26, 2002

Barry,

While Neil Anderson may not be a “sacred cow” to you (as you have clarified), your defense of his position on “demonization” is incomprehensible to me. Yes, it may be true that BDM and Christian Research Institute may not be the best sources, but they are far from being the only sources. Furthermore, I cited direct quotes from Anderson that you do not address in the least. All you do is make a blanket statement based on your “personal” or “private” encounter with Anderson. Why should I trust what you say Anderson told you, especially in light of his reputation for changing his message to fit the crowd?

Now, if you don’t agree with what he has to say on this subject, pray tell me what it is that you do not agree with. If Anderson teaches that a Christian can only be influenced and not possessed, how is it that his method of deliverance parallels those who do teach that a Christian can be possessed?

Like I said before, I don’t have the time or the resources to do in in-depth research on Anderson or any one else for that matter. If I cannot trust sources quoted by a significant cross section of responsible research groups, than why trust anyone at all? The fact is, that all of us depend in some degree on secondary sources every day for many things. Newspapers, magazines, books, etc., can all be classified as in-direct or secondary sources. Can you imagine what it would take to personally research each and every word quoted in these sources of information? I would have to set up my own organization and maybe Barry could help fund it – or maybe not.

I have not accused you, Barry, of any extreme position whatsoever. I don’t even know your position so how could I disagree with it? Maybe this would be a great time to present what you believe. After all, the original post has to do with the question at hand, namely “can a Christian be demon possessed?” not “does Anderson teach that a Christian can be demon-possessed?” I am glad that you give me permission to believe anything I want about Anderson, but to say that it doesn’t bother you in the slightest …well, you have stated your case already.

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2002

Philip,

To be frank with you, I didn't read through all of your post, as I have read most of everything Neil Anderson has to say on this subject firsthand.

Neil Anderson teaches that a Christian can be influenced by a demon. The demon can lead that Christian astray, but only when the Christian allows that to take place. He correctly states that the NT word is "demonized", with different levels of demonization taking place. For the non-Christian, the demonization could basically take the person over. In the case of a Christian, while the demon can exert influence, and even control the person to some extent, the believer is still in the Lord's hand and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The Christian could not be demonized to the point frequently described as "possession".

Neil Anderson also does not teach the same deliverance methodology as Bubeck, Wagner, etc... Neil teaches that what is needed is a "truth encounter", rather than a "power encounter". A truth encounter takes place when you remove the lie and replace it with God's truth. You can read about this in much more detail in Neil's books The Bondage Breaker and Victory Over the Darkness.

Where do I disagree with Anderson? Mainly in the area of generational spirits. I also have some trouble understanding where he is coming from on Demons manifesting themselves physically and attacking people. I'm not sure if he means that demons do this on their own, or use human beings to do it for them. If the latter, I guess it could be a possibility. On most everything else I've read by him, I'm in complete agreement.

In Christ,

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2002

Since the decision was made to limit this forum to CC/ CC leaders and/or members, most of us who post our remarks could be considered regular participants. I have also noticed a significant drop in participation over the last few months. Could it be lack of interest? I certainly hope not. On the other hand, what exactly is the point of this forum? I still don’t get it! We ask the questions, make our propositions, and argue in defense or against them… but all among ourselves. Besides, this form of communication is excruciatingly slow and inefficient. By the time we just begin to make our point, the thread looses its dynamic and people move on to something else. Could someone please explain it all to me? PLEASE GO THE THE NEW THREAD "OK, SO WHAT'S THE POINT? I STILL DON'T GET IT!"

-- Anonymous, May 27, 2002