Hello all,

Jane again. The first time I posted I got so many helpful and greatly appreciated responses I thought I might try it again! (By the way, with Rosie the shallow breather, I got some VetRX and talk about relief, I am so happy for her. I think she has allergies because, believe it or not, she and I get sick at the same time with our allergies and I know how it feels cause I have asthma.) Anyway, I have two little goats both two months old. They just finsihed up an Albon treatment for coccidiosis. All those nasty little runs are gone now, but what do I need to do to make sure, short of common sense like clean water, food, stall and so on, to ensure that this doesn't happen again. And another important thing. When do I worm them? A goat raiser told me when they are six months old. This seems kind of long to wait, but here in Colorado, I swanee I have only seen ONE worm in the two and one half years I have been here. There seems to be not so much concern for worms here because there is almost no moisture here to attract the little varmants. What do I worm them with? I see much to do about Ivomac (sp?). I have on hand Safegaurd and Panacure. Thanks for all your help and genuine concern. It is appreciated. Jane

-- jane (gazelflute@aol.com), April 28, 2002

Answers

We just did our once over on all our mature goats... The does got their butts and tails ( still oozing from kidding) cleaned along with a worming of Ivomec and fenbendazol.

I don't know who told you to wait 6 months.. but I'd think after that long a time worming wouldn't be necessary 'cause they'd be so infected they'd be dead. ( sorry to be so blunt but that's way too long) We wormed kids also today.. the oldest is two weeks old yesterday and this was her second worming... by the way she weighed in at 12 pounds.... the three others are just over a week and they got theirs today. These little guys are born with worms... Usually the does gets an infestation while she's pregnant and it's passed onto the kids.

I'm sure there are those who will say I'm wrong but ya' know I'd rather err on the side of caution than have wormy goats....

With all the stuff I've read in goat and sheep rancher along with the boer goat group there are very few folks that operate much above the hobby level and those folks are successful because they keep to a schedule of worming.. hoof trimming and regular good hygeine. They are careful about bringing new animals into their herd. There are a lot of diseases that can effect goats and without good husbandry we are going to have serious problems in the future.

-- Ken in Maine (kenjan@pivot.net), April 28, 2002.

If you aren't going to learn to fecal sample your own goats or at least have the vet do it than you do need a schedule. Yours being up north will be very minimal compared to anyone living down south. Worm everyone the day they kid no matter what. Worm everyone before you breed, both bucks and does. Worm all kids at 3 weeks old, worms and cocci (mostly) have a 21 days lifecycle, so though you can't hurt a kid worming at 2 weeks old, you are spitting in the wind. Repeat the wormings and cocci prevention every 21 days until the kids are very well grown, and/or always having them on this program when you decide to wean. The other biggest time to worm and cocci prevent is stress, stress of a sale, stress of a bad storm, anything that causes stress. With the freezes you have up north the earlier in the year your kids are born the less prevention you will have to use. Safeguard and Panacure are the same drug, so you shouldn't have both. Both are very poor wormers, use them at 3 to 5 times the dosages. So if your kid weighs 20 pounds, treat them with enough wormer for a 100 pounds of horse or cow etc. The reason I am not a fan of folks using pastes is that each click of the tube is about 250 pounds, so how do you exactly measure 1/2 a click??? :) Ivermectin 1% injectable is dosed at 2cc per 100 pounds, syringe it out, take off the needle and give by mouth. I don't use this on my milkers because of milk withdrawal, but it is a really good wormer for kids, bucks and dry or pregnant stock. My main wormer is Valbazen Drench 8cc per 100 pounds once again given by mouth. It is the broadest spectrum wormer there is, and is an excellent kid wormer, the only class of animal that tapeworms effect. It also has a lungworm and liver flukaside in it, which is nice with new folks, not really knowing what is the problems in their area.

Once you get your management down, you are having healthy sets of kids that go from birth to weaning without any diarrhea, than tweak you program to include less prevention. We do still use the 3 week prevention and now a 12 week prevention, but with our kids born in March rather than in December, we are simply seeing much less cocci and worms on fecal. I think it is because we are already seeing high 80's and low 90's for temps right now, and our winters are so mild it was infesting our kids even more. We are also already mowing, which of course makes the goats have to go out into the woods and not stay in the front pastures eating grass which we know are heavily infested. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.

I worm my goats on the same schedule as my horses, every 8 weeks. However, as I live in a deer-heavy area, I also worm every two weeks in the spring and will again in the late summer to prevent an infection of the deer brain worm, meningeal worm. This worm does not injure deer but can be fatal to camelids and goats. I lost a goat to it last year. Onion creek ranch has a very good article on their website about this awful disease. To prevent this disease use a wormer such as Panacur. Symptoms include ataxia, but the goat retains his appetite and good eye color. Eventually paralysis of the hind limbs will occur. This is an awful disease. The worm's life cycle is from the deer to slugs to the soil to the goat so any slug prevention methods such as slug traps and providing good habitat for toads and other slug eating wildlife are also worthwhile.

-- kim (Kimcaprino@aol.com), April 29, 2002.

Kim the amount of wormer that you would have to give to try to keep menengial worm at bay, is the same amount you would have to use to kill it. You would only be able to kill it after it lodges in the spinal cord. Using Ivermectin at 6cc per 150 pounds, is going to give you a goat with severe liver damage, if you gave that much every 2 weeks. The information on S G's site is in error. The information in Goat Medicine, with the use of Ivermectin to kill the protozoa, with Dexamethazone to take down the swelling in the spinal cord, and other drugs given profilactically for problems associated with an animal down in your area, is the only thing that is going to save and also give you a viable animal afterwards. I speak about this from experience. Goat Medicine also states prevention (other than guardian dogs who keep the deer off your place, which is how we deal with it now) is not going to work.

Worming your goats every 8 weeks is going to build worm resistance. I would doubt if you are running fecals, you probably wouldn't see a NEED to worm every 8 weeks, if you are truly seeing worm burdens high enough (on a chambered slide where you can actually count them) then you need help with your overall management. Copper defficency can lead to goats who look wormy (sparse hair growth, unthrifty appearances), it also leads to nutritional stress which can wreck havoc on a does ability to control her own immunity, which then lets worms and cocci take hold. Horses are single stomached animals, and even then on fecal our donkeys do not need this worming every other month, switching wormers every other month, montra that all equine folks give you.

There are lots of good sites with excellent information, from folks who have had goats alot longer than the meat goat folks on some forums. Remember Boer's have only been her 8 years! fiascofarms.com saanendoah.com http://agprogram.tamu.edu/agropolis/animals/sheep.html

This is Dr.Craig's papers from Texas A&M the person Mary Smith of Goat Medicine goes for herself to learn about the lastest worming information.

And of course the dairy goat forum here. http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Dairygoats

You also shouldn't take my word for any of this either. Believe me if their is a secret bullet in raising quality stock it is learning to fecal sample, and blood testing for CAE and CL. You then don't have to listen to ANYBODY, you know what is going on in your herd, which wormers work and what info is manure. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), May 01, 2002.