Hi, all. I have a angora/pygmy cross doe who gave birth last week to twin boys. She's rather overweight, been that way all her life (no, I don't force feed her.. the others are in fine shape). I believe she is having a bout with ketosis; she lost her baby (her first) last year. I will not be breeding her again, BTW. So, books in hand, I've been giving her molasses/water 2x/day with some remedies and she seems to be holding her own. Was worried at first because I didn't think the kids were getting enough groceries, but they are doing fine, also, although they are small; they are starting to play and that is a good sign. No, haven't been able to get a vet out and goats are not her thing anyway. I got a bright idea to give her a private indoor/outdoor run and put her mother in for company, and she was so happy about this and even started to nibble at food. She seems so blue... maybe it's just post-partem depression? Any comments on this? I believe she is pulling through, but, anything else I can do? Thanks, debra in nm.

-- debra in nm (goatgirl@unm.edu), April 23, 2002

Answers

All I can really tell you is what is normal for goats in my area. Ketosis is a disease if goats in very poor shape carrying a load of kids, or a doe in very fat shape carrying just a few. They are so lacking in energy rich feed that they start burning stores of their own fat, muscle that they have ketones in their urine, and most kids are born dead. In my estimation this is the same disease as prenancy toxemia in women. Hypocalcemia is the miss managment of nutrition before pregnancy which the doe trying to start storing colostrum, has a negative calcium bank, starts shaking, stops eating, and dies if not treated for the correct disease. Both does after kidding will be thrown into milkfever if this calcium defficient is not fixed, and this is what it sounds like your doe has. It is a wonderful mangement to give all does who kid a warm bucket of molassas, makes them feel loved, but with even goat pellets heavy with molassas and lots of folks feed horse feed, rarely is the goat who kids with low blood sugar levels that needs this. Get some CMPK or one of the many many cattle milk fever pastes or gells that jefferslivestock.com sells and give it to this doe. Here is a start on your reading for all the above things.

http://hometown.aol.com/goatlist/hypocal.htm

Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

You might look at these two sites:

MILK FEVER ---- -- HYPOCALCEMIA, http://goats.clemson.edu/Mar%20Newsleter.htm,

Sannendoah, saanendoah.com

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

With the utmost of respect, BC's first link is to a very old blurb on the subject from Dr. Samuel Guss. He probably has one of the best explinations for the disease process, and one of the wrost treatments. If you take a doe in milk fever to the vet for calcium IV, 99% of the time she will die in respiratory arrest! They are not mini cows. Dr. Guss's book Management and Diseases of Dairy Goats is an excellent book, found on ebay and can be picked up very inexpensively now. Problems come with new and much better information on some things. BC's second addy on the subject is fine :) It is the same link to Sue Rieth's article on Hypocalcemia, Milk Fever, Ketosis, and how to tell the difference, that I linked you to :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

To clarify, I hope that anyone reading the Milk Fever---Hypocalcemia web site understands that IV jugular injections are serious medical procedures and as the article indicates “Milk fever should be treated only by a veterinarian”.

Do they mean all hypocalemia situations, it doesn’t say. It does qualify the situation it is talking about, by stating that they are talking about an animal with a blood calcium level of 5.0 to 6.0 mg./%, while the normal calcium level is between 9.0 and 10.5 mg./%.

All I saw talked about on Saanendoah’s web site in regard to hypocalcemia, is an oral calcium replacement product called CMPK. Oral administration of drugs is the best and safest way to go if you have the time.

She does list calcium gluconate under her medication/drug lists and states: “CALCIUM GLUCONATE 10% (calcium gluconate 100mg/mL) solution- IV 5-15 mg/ml slowly to effect over 10 minute period. Monitor heart rate, stop treatment if bradycardia develops. Calcium chloride 10% solution is effective but extremely caustic if given extravascularly, but is three times more potent so use one-third 0.15-0.5 ml/kg.” and “CALCIUM GLUCONATE 23% (calcium borogluconate 23%) solution - 23% w/v (provides 10.71 g of calcium* per 500 mL) - 23 grams of Ca Cluconate (2.14 grams Ca) per 100ml.” (See Sannendoah Basic Medicines)

I felt that the two articles I posted provided a balance in treatment options available for different degrees of hypocalcemia.

As to fatal results from the usage of IV calcium gluconate, I’m sure that Vicki has good reasons for her views and with all due respect, the only online site I found (which appears to be by a Vet school professor) states: “The therapy for milk fever should be considered an emergency situation, for 60 - 70% will die without treatment. However as much as 6% may die from the therapy.” (See V SC 497B Pathology of Nutritional and Metabolic Diseases, Dr. Robert J. Van Saun, http://www.vetsci.psu.edu/coursedesc/vsc497b/17hypo.htm) I’m sure that this statement also needs to be placed in context as to what degree of hypocalcemia (milk fever) constitutes a medical emergency.

I try to list online sites for reference so that the person can go to that site and see for themselves where I got the information or excerpt that I am posting.

Perhaps I should tame down the sites that I reference to this forum, as the last thing I want to do is cause confusion in a person that is asking for help.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

O.K. just got to ask, BC you have goats? The information I give is the information I use, not look up on the internet and repost it. If you know the disease process you are able to catch hypocalcemia and milk fever before you are needing the vet for IV's. And since 99% of the folks we are here for on this forum, and others are not going to use the vet, the CMPK information from Sue Rieth is the most valuable.

Your last statement about taming it down................now if I had said that my inbox would be full of folks telling me "you think you know everything, you are talking down to us etc. etc.." Now BC because we don't know if you are a man or a women (kudos to you by the way :) wonder if you are getting the same mail?? I wish you would participate on some of the all goat forums, perhaps you do and I just don't recognize the addy?? Some of us on this and other forums are internet friends, we have talked about you, and we have talked about the fact that you are uni-sex at this point, your obviously more technical point of view hasn't been challenged publicly, perhaps privately? Because whether it is my more in your face type of post that I do, mostly because of time, but some because it is my brusque personality, or the very nice post of Bernice, the female view point is usually seen with more distane than you have gotten, at least publicly. Curious! It's nice having you here no matter which one it is! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.