I expect to have Waverly Discount Groceries in business in 2-3 weeks. Question though. Does anyone have a better term for the inventory beyond salvage groceries or 'dents and dings'? I know salvage is the industrial term, but, to me, it still has a poor connotation, as would recycled groceries. What term can I use to represent groceries which are still good, but which weren't sold through retail at a typical supermarket?

Building is progressing. Probably not surprising set-up expenses are higher than I thought they would be. For example, had to paint the floor. Can may say coverage is 400 square feet, but it was more like 200 on raw concrete. Supplier was out of stock, so had to go to another place and, since the color didn't match, ended up putting on two coats, at twice the expected cost. I am building my own shelving out of plywood and 2"x4"s and found lumber prices have really gone up since the last time I purchased more than a stud or two.

At the present time the county (population of about 18,000) has five supermarkets. Rumors are the local WalMart may be replaced by a smaller version of a Super WalMart, to add groceries beyond the small amount they stock now. Local opinion seems to be if that happens they will drive at least two, maybe three, of the local operations out of business. Thus, my overall competition won't change all that much. Besides, some of what I will be stocking will originate at WalMart/Sam's Club distribution centers.

I can see now to where pricing and shelf management is going to be a real learning experience. You pay $X for a banana box of assorted groceries. Markup will depend on each item. On a can of peas it might be $.05. On a can of coffee, $.50. How do you designate shelf space on a continually changing inventory beyond common groupings?

Initial local reaction is overwhelmingly positive, but it remain to be seen if the store will have legs. I may be on a good country road, but not a major one. But then Joel Salatin has customers who drive two or more hours each way to stock up on his pastured poultry.

Don't think I mentioned the wholesaler in MS I visited also included a retail store about the size of a typical grocery store of 30-years ago. (You remember, back when supermarket just meant they also sold fresh meat and produce.) I noted a lot of their prices seemed to be at normal supermarket retail and asked about it. Manager said they don't try to undercut normal retail on everything. They just want to be able to lower the overall customer shopping expense enough to make it worthwhile for the customer to do most of their shopping there. They also went with a few frills approach. Shelving and checkout counters had been recycled out of supermarkets which closed or upgraded. Shopping carts were surplus WalMart. Even their plastic shopping bags were surplus from a supermarket chain. In many ways it did remind me of a supermarket from 30-years ago.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 31, 2002

Answers

Best of luck Ken, especially if Wally's world moves into your area.

As for a name, you said, "They just want to be able to lower the overall customer shopping expense enough to make it worthwhile for the customer to do most of their shopping there." In other words, 'Food for Less', or some such derivation.

-- Lynn (lynngoltz@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

"Surplus" comes to mind as a name. Keep in mind that in retail some things are marked up only 1.5% above cost; others are priced 1500% above cost, thats why you see birthday cards and flower arrangements for sale in grocery stores these days. In marketing the best profit makers are allways at adult eye height, one shot items, (bread, milk, ect.) are allways in the back, where you must travel by things you may not need to get what you want. The colors of brown and orange stimulate appetites. A crash course in marketing display might make a large differance.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), March 31, 2002.

If three stores go out of business, then you can expect to substain a hit when they sell out their stocks, not the best time to do a grand opening. As people will stock up, most likely, then would wait a few months after their sale off to open up. Easier to sell water in a dry season, than the wet season.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), March 31, 2002.

"Clearance" would be accurate, but it would be a bit awkward to use without sounding like you were running a permanent going-out-of- business sale. How about "second chance" groceries?

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), March 31, 2002.

What term can I use to represent groceries which are still good, but which weren't sold through retail at a typical supermarket?

Overstock, scratch N dent, remnants, miscellany, closeouts.

The MS thesaurus cranked out most of those. Good Luck!!

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), March 31, 2002.

Waverly Bent & Dent Discount Groceries.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 31, 2002.

I'm with Don. The first nice sounding thing that popped in my head was "Second Chance" groceries.

-- gilly (wayoutfar@skybest.com), March 31, 2002.

drive a little and save a lot Bob se,ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), March 31, 2002.

I was in the grocery business a few years back working for a supplier. We did sell to "salvage" grocers. Most of them used steel wharehouse type shelving. Almost all of their items were displayed in the cartons on the shelves. Between the cost of wood and the wight of canned goods I would go with used steel shelving. Your markup is going to be determined by your volume. The reality of business is that the volume will dictate to you what the markup will be. To help draw people in you might look at selling something such as name brand soft drinks cheap. I know you don't think of soft drinks as something bargain hunters would buy but I can tell you it works. If you can strike a deal with your local soft drink company to buy by the pallet on their clearance items I'm sure you could sell them. Next thing I would look into is taking food stamps and WIC vouchers. Next time you go to the grocery store spend some time observing the checkouts and see how many people pay with them. Also look to see what those people will buy.

-- Emil in TN (eprisco@usit.net), March 31, 2002.

I think 'discount groceries' says it all. I also like the suggestion someone made about 'food for less', but you are so much more than just food.

I like the idea that you might stock a few standards that aren't necessarily salvage goods to allow folks to buy those while they save so much on other things. Stuff with easy shelf-lives...like bottled water or soda. The profit margin might make up for the inventory cost. One vending machine/or cooler with the price per unit low (35 cents here) might add up some profit as well when you increase foot traffic there.

This is exciting for you. Thanks for the update.

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), March 31, 2002.

Here in MS it seems we have one salage food store for every 5000 people. A friend of mine refers to them as her "gourmet" food stores because for just pennies you can get all really expensive specialty foods that you otherwise wouldn't buy.

Put a couple of potted plants out front and call it the "Gourmet Gardens"

I was able to get pallet rack out of Memphis free for the taking. It is certainly sturdy shelving.

We are the type of buyers that stock up on the really good loss- leader sales when they appear at the regular grocery stores. We often go to the salvage stores, howerver. Most have all items obviously cheaper than grocery sale items and we really can stock up. Even cereal is cheaper, about $1 to 1.25 per box. One of the bigger stores was bought out by new owners recently though. They have cleaned up and prettied up the store along with putting the prices mostly on par with the regular grocery stores. Not for us. For our dollar the difference is price. We can look for ambiance elsewhere.Apparently not for others either, the store was pretty empty the last two times we went there.

I get the impression that you have to buy a mix of items in true bulk (per lb), say container load when you buy salvage groceries at wholesale. That means you end up with a lot of stuff that just won't sell. A couple of times I've seen this swap a smaller store. They were getting crowded out by their junk. Not a problem so much for the larger stores. Best of luck Ken

-- charles (cr@dixienet.com), March 31, 2002.

dents and bents

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), March 31, 2002.

Good N Cheap? Good luck on your new venture.

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), March 31, 2002.

Discount groceries. I thing the terms "salvage" and "surplus" may have a negative connotation for a lot of buyers.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

I shop at the local "dent" stores because of the great price on condiments, ethnic and gourmet items. I'd be a bit squeamish about shopping at someplace called "surplus" because of the image it brings to mind of dumpster diving. The word discount does not carry the same bad feel.

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), March 31, 2002.

Thank you for the suggestions. I can work some of them into my classified ads. I'm avoiding the use of scratch and dent or dings and dents as, to me, it may remind people of the low enders who specialize in that merchandise. Prices per box seem to range from $7.50 to $10.50 (plus freight). I'm going for the higher priced boxes for better merchandise. Basically what I will be getting is the same merchandise the wholesaler sells in their store, minus case lots since so much of what they had in that building was past the expiration date.

If I can get it, my come-on will be generic canned dog food by the 24- can case.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

Hi, Ken. Glad to see you're keeping busy! How about BUDGET BUSTER or THE BUDGET GOURMET? Good luck . Tomas in BC

-- Tomas (bakerzee@hotmail.com), March 31, 2002.

Canned dog food or any pet food is a good idea, maybe even become a dealer for a particular brand? Blue Seal was doing it's best to sign us up, we don't sell dog food but we do use a good amount. Seems in the USA you buy direct from the manufacturer? Here I have a terific wholesaler that sells us about 50 different brands (Iams, Technical, Pedigree, Purina, etc) in small lots of 5 units (big bag or case of cans) 30-40% off retail Pet supplies are 10-30% off retail too, and thier retail is cheap. Try to find out where the dog breeders or boarding kennels buy thier food and supplies. For a store name I don't know that I'd connect salvage groceries to the name at all. Use something generic like The Tennesee Home Supply Depot.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), March 31, 2002.

"Pennies in your Pocket", The Alternitive Grocer.

Good Luck Ken!

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), March 31, 2002.

Ken, I like your 'Discount Grocery/Groceries' name idea the best. 'Surplus' makes me think of things near their expiration date. 'Dent & Bent' and 'Salvage' make me think of open bags taped back closed, etc. For what it's worth, I also like the idea of having a major soft drink available at or near cost as a hook. We even have a sporting goods store here that sells Coke products dirt cheap just to get bodies in the door. No other food or drink products whatsoever. They've been doing it for years so it must be working for them.

We just had a store like yours open here a while back and my Mom was just talking about it at dinner today. She loves it. Some of her friends are just as enthused, she tells me. I think you've got a winner here. Just one guy's opinion on the name and the soft drink idea. I hope it helps. Good luck to you. ;o)

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

The name you choose is going to be with you for a long time. Stay away from anything cute, Keep it simple. How about "The Food Terminal" or "Discount Distributors". You don't want to mislead people and you don't want to sound like a salvage yard.

-- JJ Grandits (JJGBDF@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

MMMMM, I LOVE these "salvage" stores and I don't mind calling it salvage! When we go to MS to visit our friends there we ALWAYS hit the salvage stores. Once I hit it just right and got a bunch-I mean a bunch of tylenol-childrens for 10 cents a bottle!!! Boullion which I use a lot of-cheap-cheap......This last trip I got CERTO for 25 cents a box. People won't care what you call it as long as you have the bargins! My friend buys cereal, lots and lots of cereal, very much cheaper than even Wally sells it. I wish we had a few salvage stores here in the north! Keep it clean though-nothing worse than a dirty floor! Kathy G......Iowa

-- Craig Giddings (ckgidd@netins.net), March 31, 2002.

Bargain Barn? Sav-a-lot? I think it's really exciting for you, Ken! Too bad you aren't closer to us, the local Safeway store was remodeling recently--tearing out all the shelving and replacing it with new, and there was nothing wrong with the ones that they tore out. I asked the workers and was told it would go in the dumpster in the morning, but I was welcome to any that I wanted and we loaded up our small horse trailer with shelving units. Might check around there if some of the local stores, K-mart comes to mind, are going out of business, or redecorating, and you can get some shelves for nothing. Keep us advised, we're all with you! Jan

-- Jan in Co (Janice12@aol.com), March 31, 2002.

Ken, here we have On The Road Liquidators. They moved into a large vacant Pamida store and thus have room to stock anything and everything available from overstocks, store closings, etc. Food, hardware, drugstore items, and so on. All the foodstuffs are either dry, canned, or bottled goods. Lots of stuff that doesn't sell as the manufacturers wished so it's sold at a dime to the dollar. Liquidators mark it up 100% and it still 20% of retail price. Maybe find pints of mayo with the label all in Arabic for two-bits or another crate of the same stuff in Hebrew. Last year they had a pallet of tartar sauce in half-pint glass jars. When price got down to 10 cents, I quickly grabbed 24 just to get the jars for canning and dumped the sauce! Anyway, since you'll be liquidating salvaged food, call yourself The Food Liquidator. That sounds a lot more acceptable than food salvager. Salvaging has the sound of someone rooting around a dumpster or wrecked semi trailer trying to find what may be salvaged.

Mad Marty in WI

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 31, 2002.

For clarification, I am already licensed as Waverly Discount Groceries. I thought of using Blue Creek since it is the name of the road and a well-known creek. A friend was using a building at the other end of the farm for a flea market type operation and she called it the Blue Creek Bargain Barn. Bargain Barn Discount Groceries was tempting, but Waverly lets everyone in the county know where it is located. (And if you put a pin in the geographic center of Humphreys County it would likely hit my farm somewhere.)

The building (metal sided with concrete floor) I will be using here at the farm is 22'x49', so I am somewhat limited to the amount of items I can stock. Basically canned, bottled and boxed groceries. Will use a pallet of something as a lure.

Again, I'm doing this for something to keep me occupied as much as anything else. I want it to be worth my while, but don't want it to be too successful either if that makes sense. If I have to hire someone to stock shelves, etc., I have to sell an awful lot of groceries just to pay them. By being open only four days a week, I can stock on a closed day at my leisure (heck in my underware on hot summer nights if I want). I don't want to be open more than 30-hours a week. The building is across the parking area from my trailer. While I have a better suited building down the road, as I have said, if it is here it is a hobby. If I have to get in the car to drive 1/3 mile down the road it becomes a job. Plus, during slow times I would have to still be there. Here I can at least go into the trailer and watch the talking heads on TV if it is slow by installing a driveway alert bell.

I checked into used grocery shelving and found it to be about twice what building my own will cost me. Plus, if the business doesn't work to make it worth my while, I think I can sell the shelving as garage shelves as it is quite sturdy. Shelves are either 24" or 32" wide. (Actually, I would have preferred 16" and 32", but I already had most of the 24"ers and didn't want to build new ones. Only difference is 48" aisles versus 53"s) A 2"x4" spruce frame is made and a piece of 1/2" roofing sheeting (good neither side) screwed to the top. These are 8' long. Shelves are separated by four 6' long, 2"x4"s as legs. Five shelves. Bottom one sits on the floor. Then four separated by 13", plus the top. Really, really sturdy. The 24"ers go against the walls. The 32" are accessible from either side. I have one 8' long table to be used for grab boxes. A shelving is being painted white. Someone gave me a work desk and counter acceptible as a check out counter.

If the local WalMart does become a Super WalMart, I would expect fixtures there to become surplus and would scarf them up. When a drug store in town went out of business the guy with the contract to clean it out put out the word to come get the shelving. At the time I didn't need them.

(This started out as my doing research for someone else as a possible business change for them. They couldn't afford set-up cost and initial stockage. It looked so good on paper I decided to try it myself.)

Question was really related to how I can word classified ads for the store. People in this county read the classifieds and I think it will be both cheaper and more cost effective than block ads. However, as the saying goes, "Half of my advertising money is wasted. The problem is I don't know which half."

Typical ads would be something along the lines of "Drive a little and save big. Waverly Discount Groceries, 1645 West Blue Creek Road. Open 10AM-5PM Thursdays - Saturdays. 296-3793." or inspired by one of the above, "Save big on manufacturer and retailers overstocks. Waverly..." or "Generic dog food, $6.00 24-can case, free-sample, while supply lasts, Waverly..." Ads have a draw, store name, location, hours and contact point. Grand opening block ad will have a map in it. (Classified ads are $4.00 for first ten words, then $.10 per word above ten. Cheapest block ad would be about $18.00 a week. I can run about three classified ads for the cost of a block ad.)

(I really like Drive a little and save a lot, but we have a Save-a- Lot locally and I don't want to advertise for them.)

I agree retail names are important. One place in Linden, TN is just J & H Sales. Certain not descriptive to me. Another one in Hollow Rock, TN is John's D&D. D&D? On Highway 70 between Waverly and New Johnsonville there is an older building with Denver Salvage and Bait Shop on the side. (Went out of business years ago.) Just recent realized the salvage part was groceries.

Someone noted taking food stamps. Today they use something like a credit card. I would have to put in a scanner and second phone line, plus keep track on what can and cannot be purchased. Not worth the hassle right now. Credit cards likewise, plus they charge a percentage of sales. Only checks accepted will be on local banks. On bad ones a retailer can swear out a warrant. Sheriff's department wouldn't go looking for them, but it appears as an outstanding warrant on their record for arrest purposes if they get stopped for a traffic violation or something.

Was tentitively scheduled for first load of stock on Wednesday, but will delay it a couple of days to one load on Friday and one the following Monday.

I know of at least one other on the forum tracking this venture as a possible homestead business for them also, so will keep you posted on progress.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), April 01, 2002.

I find this a very interesting topic, and follow it closely. Sorry I don't have much to add, but I enjoy all the comments. :)

I feel much that is said can apply to any small business, even those not in retail can learn.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), April 01, 2002.

Sounds really neat Ken..........nice to hear from you. I always wanted to open a little shop right here to market various things that I do, but have never gotten that far. Best of luck in your new enterprise and keep us posted. :>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 01, 2002.

Living in a small town has its advantages. I sold five young cows with four calves to a guy who also bought some hay from me later on. He has a small wholesale business in town and stocks candy vending machines. When we were talking about my new venture he said to stop by his place as he had a book I can use. It is a monthly price list from his wholesaler. Say I open a banana box and find a package of American Style Salad Crispins. How to price it? The book says their wholesale price is $18.20 a dozen and suggested retail is $2.17 at a 30% markup. I now have an idea on what to charge, say 75% of $2.17 if the package is good and has not expired.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), April 01, 2002.

Just remember that some of the names tossed out here are trademarked, and you don't want to invest huge amounts of money in stationery, signage, etc., only to be told by some company's on-retainer lawyer that you will be sued six ways from Sunday for infringeing on their trademark, or service mark, or whatever.

Are you going to take credit cards? I don't mind using cash if I can get a discount, but generally avoid places where cards are not welcome, particularly if the prices and selection are not making up for the inconvenience. Just something to think about--you might be in an area where few people use credit cards.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 01, 2002.

We have a couple Amish grocery stores within a reasonable drive. One is a dent-n-bent store and the other one mostly sells bulk foods, but also has dent-n-bent. Of the two stores the one with the bulk foods does better. Customers go there because they know what basics they can always find and if they find something extra in the dent-n-bent, well all the better.

The all dent-n-bent store doesn't do that well. They haven't tried to maintain the basics (like tomato sauce) so going there is much more a hit and miss kinda thing. I've walked out of the store without buying anything because they didn't have any basic foods.

So my suggestion would be to watch what people buy and make sure you stock those basics that they are looking for. I would also talk with the people who leave your store w/o buying anything to find out what they had wanted. Very few stores bother with that kind of attention to "non-paying" customers, but it does make the customer feel important. It also lets you know where you failed. Getting the customer into your store is the hard part, getting them to buy something after they are in your store is supposed to be the easy part.

-- Margarete (forpippin@earthlink.net), April 02, 2002.

My kid's call our's the broken food store. as in "this box looks rough did you go to the broken food store again?"

-- ronda (thejohnsons@localaccess.com), April 02, 2002.

Hi, I don't have a answer I have a question, I have just started my own salvage food store and looking for more places to buy the salvage goods. I have a few but I could use some more contacts. We are doing pretty good so far it seem everyone does want to save money no matter what the packages looks like, If you could help I would very much appreciate it. Thank you (Tiny) Raymond N. in Ring. Ga

-- Raymond Norman (ngliquidator@catt.com), May 10, 2002.