I'd like to quote from a Lisa Lombardi, whose teacher trained sister home schools her kids, who wrote a letter to the editor in Feb 2000 Atlantic Monthly:

..."Her children are bright, wth good manners and lovely, lively spirits. The five year old can already read and do his numbers. Howver, by the end of their twelve year home schooling process they will know nothing about geology. They will know nothing about evolution or natural selection, which are the cornerstones of modern biology, from ecology to genetics and gene mapping. They will speak only English.They will have been taught that their way of belief and behavior is the only way, with no exposure to other cultures, other beliefs, exept to be told that those ways are wrong. And that includes not only other systems such as Islam and animism but also Catholocism and, indeed, other kinds of Protestantism, which are also anathema to my sister. Those children will know a great deal about the Second Amendment and nothing about the First, which guarantees freedom of, and freedom from, religtion. They will be taught that the United States is a Christian, rather than a secular, nation.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

Answers

Well, that sounds like an indictment of that particular homeschooler (if you consider it an indictment). I know of Pagans who homeschool. And I'm sure there are Christians who homeschool who include all those things "missing" in the curriculum above. You couldn't generalize about homeschooling based on what ONE homeschooler does.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

I agree, Joy; I'm not making an indictment against home schooling. Just making an observation. The pro's and con's of homeschooling, like those of public or private schools, can't be summarized in such a short missive.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

This is a rather odd post coming from you joj, I always thought you were a bit more broad minded than to even pass this dribble on. While I am very certain that there are homeschoolers that would fall into this category, my personal experience has shown me a wonderful diverse group of people are homeschooling and doing a great job of exposing their children to a multitude of experiences, languages etc.

My personal opinion is that I can not imagine why anyone who has the means to do it would not homeschool, rather than subject their children to the dumbing down that is happening in most of our public schools. I am perfectly aware that not everyone has the means to homeschool or the ability, and I am also sure that there are some good public schools out there as well.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

I help homeschool a kid who is 6. We've been having school since she was 3. She can add and subtract columns of numbers as well as use negative numbers. She writes in cursive because she mastered printing at 4 and was bored with it. She draws and letters the most elaborate stories. She has already had 4 years of Spanish by a private tutor.

On the bad side she can't keep quiet to save her life and has very little idea what obeying means. I'm the only one who makes her mind and the only one who whips her butt when she needs it. I expect she will be hell on wheels when she gets to be about 10. I don't envy her parents dealing with the teenager she seems likely to become, but they have brought it on themselves.

Guess there are good and bad sides to everything.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

....And public schools social indoctrinations are better? Schools should only present the facts, not ideals. A well educated person will grow into their preferred society well enough without cattle prodding by the schools. At least homeschooling does give more options than being "another brick in the wall". It all boils down to the teacher. When I was homeschooling my ex's son, I had a better resource and media lab than the school and my science lab accomodated his biology,chemistry,geology and earth sciences. And of course, our greenhouse was used for agronomics and horticulture. I utilized the internet for sociology studies. I was not always happy with the direction of his social development, however, that was the direction he chose.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

There's an active discussion of this topic over at CS. JOJ and I have both participated. Not to re-direct you from this thread, by any means, but you might want to check it out. At least to better understand the above quote, as well as my opinion, if anyone actually cares..LOL. Or JOJ's!

And I gave up posting over there....

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2002

I've always thought education was really wasted on the young! Maybe reading and writing just so they are prepared for later when they can really pursue an education.

I sat down with my kids (after my wife died) and told the they could go to school wherever they wanted but they had to choose. My son went to a hippie school for several years, was home schooled 2 years then finished high school in a Quaker school. My daughter just decided to do public school. They both did okay but the thing I did right was letting them be responsible for getting educated, or not, the way they wanted. My wife would have shit!! Ha!......Kirk

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

We homeschool 2 out of 4 right now and I have always left the option for them to attend another school,they both say no way.I am glad about their choice but will always leave it an open option to them,dout they will choose to go though.

Its alot of work to keep everyone on track and I did have the learn to relax about it,now it's ok.We teach openess on all subjects and will not focus on one idea or theory wether its religion, science,or social studies. I have learned alot myself and look forward learning with he kids.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

JOJ or Sheepish, I can't find the thread over at CS. Does it have the same title as it does here? I must still have icicles hanging off my eyelids from the drive into work this morning. Can someone help me out and send the direct link?

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

I guess the method of schooling can mark its success both by the quality of its teachers and the responsiveness of the pupils. Nothing is without its pros and cons and to each his own I say. I considered homeschooling but I truly think that I would suck at it. My primary reasons for considering it were fear for my children in "The System" and concerns about the quality of the local school. My kids will be attending an Acadian school where class sizes are low (like 12 kids in a class!!) and the curriculum is taught in French with emphasis on Acadian and Francophone culture. We qualify to send our kids there because my husband is French Canadian. I am an Anglophone but I am thrilled to send my kids there starting with Ben this fall, because of the quality, atmosphere, parent participation, and size. Drawbacks: no sports teams but we will overcome that through extracurricular activities if the boys wish (like 4H, soccer, etc etc..whatever we can handle and they show an interest in). I wish others that choose public school could be as fortunate as us.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

Well, I homeschool 4 children ages 16, 8, 6, & 4. I agree that this is an example of only one type of homeschool. And there as many examples of schooling as there are people in this world. And if this is the way they are being schooled it their parent's prerogative to do so. The children will soon find a different world when they begin to experience the world as adults. Even if the parents are pagan their views are going to rub off on the kids whether they intend them to or not. Everyone eventually finds their own way!

As far as academics are concerned: if a child knows how to learn and to study, they can learn anything they want to if the need arises. Kids don't come out of a public school with every fact and skill they will need for life either. Their attitudes and knowledge will increase and evolve with every breathing moment. That's how it has worked for me in my life.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

We have homeschooled our 5 (now 22,18,15,11 &6)for 13 years.At 16 they have a choice to stay home or go to school.WE have had incredible opportunities that p.s. kids miss.Some of my kids went to Mexico(remember thats a long way from us)and built homes and a church in a remote village.They raised their own funds.They have done archeological digs with a team from the university here.My son learned to trap with some real old characters and that led him to do museum work with a master taxidermist,stuffing walrus ,musk ox and polar bears for 3 years.He was only 17.One year we walked thru the jewish calendar from sept. to may ,celebrated all their feasts,ate the food and had a jewish friend come and celebrate Hanukah with us.One of my sons works with handicapped kids and does a mean improv,has been to drama school with a local troupe,and counsels kids with Diabetes.My daughter who has learning delays had taught herself spanish,guitar an sings in band.My youngest daughter has built her own drop spindle (from cs)and has learned to spin.We study all religions and cultures at one time.I dunno,sounds like someone has some sour grapes.There are alot of things my kids have missed out on though,I will admit,they can't get flavored condoms here,they are not bullied except by me, when they haven't brought wood in,body piercings,multi-coloured hair and tatoos are permitted if they can justify the expense,I could go on....p.s.My son 18,is in high school now,has won 3 gold medals in wrestling,He has diabetes and its tricky to match output with input energy and sugar wise,is drop dead gorgeous,(yes I know its mother pride,)and he is ribbed constantly cuz he's still a virgin.He just laughs about it though...we were watching the horses breed and he says...I'm really depressed Mom,everybody 's havin sex but me....I love my kids!!!!

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

Here ya go, Sherri: link

That is the correct one, isn't it, sheepish?

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

This is the first year I've homeschooled my son. We should have done this long ago. Last year he took high school biology. The whole year they didn't look into a microscope, not once. They did not study reptiles, mammals, ecosystems, plants, or amphibians. Neither evolution nor intelligent design was mentioned. And this is supposed to be the best public school in our area. I shudder over what the not-so-good schools are like.

The parents who are taking their kids out of ps, are the ones who have volunteered and tried to make the school a better place. The guidance counselor whined at me that all the good students were leaving. Gee, isn't that sort of a hint?

Kyle is a gifted musician. He plays clarinet, oboe, and bassoon. Try to be a guy and not get your head smashed into a metal locker because you play a so-called girl's instrument.

There was a boy with Down's and he was way smaller than the rest of the boys in Kyle's class. Some smart ass kid had him down on the floor, punching the daylights out of him. My son came along and yelled at the little creep to stop. He didn't, so Kyle grabbed him by the back of the shirt and smacked him up side the head. This was the first time that my son has ever hit anyone. Yep, Kyle was suspended from school. I heard that the boy with Downs is now being homeschooled too. The bully is still there.

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

Good point about the incredible violence that comes with the public school systems Vicki!!....Kirk

-- Anonymous, March 26, 2002

So what's a single parent supposed to do?

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Sherry you do pose a more difficult situation with your question. But not one that can't be overcome. From what I gather and from my own experience, homeschool in elementary grades takes about 3 hrs. per day. A single parent could use Sat. and Sun. for 2 days of it and do the others in the evenings. A close relative could help with some of it. In a divorce situation the other parent could help with a subject. Those are just ideas. A high school student usually takes a little longer per day but also is more self directed and needs less one on one. But as I'm sure you know (because you have many interests) that a person can always find a way to fit something in if they are committed enough to doing it. I chose to give up a successful business to raise and educate my kids. If I found myself to be single at some point, I would still manage somehow to get it done.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Sherri, I just realized that I spelled your name incorrectly. I'm sorry. I know how to spell it, I just typed it wrong.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Sherri, I read your question before I went out to chore and have been thinking about it a lot. I am not exactly certain what the basis of the question was. As a single parent of three children I would have been much better off if the law had allowed me to homeschool. The public school system was totally inadequate and undependable as child care, and they did not educate my two learning disabled or even my "gifted" child. I did, AFTER they had had them for the best hours. My children will all tell you the same thing; they learned in spite of the schools. I know I can not speak for all single parents, but IMHO they are totally able to handle the task if it is something they desire to do.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

I have been following this on all the forums - maybe I just missed seeing someone post something different; but there seems to be an either/or mindset going. Either you home school your children, or you send them to public school. Who says you can't do both? What I see on these forums is folks saying you're a bad parent if you do this/don't do this.

Jes entered private pre-school at age three; and will graduate from high school in 9 weeks. I did pull her out of one public school because I didn't care for the administration; but I enrolled her in another public school. Had this school annoyed me as badly as the other one, there are some parochial schools she could have gone to. I never considered strictly home-schooling her.

However, I didn't just send her to public school and expect them to send me home an educated child; I participated in her educational process, both in concert with, and in addition to, her public school education. Let's face it; I, personally have limitations as far as providing a well rounded education goes - I don't know how to diagram a sentence, can't remember the table of elements from chemistry class, can't do html, have forgotten the minimal algebra that I learned, and have no intention of providing her with 17 more children to be on a baseball team with! However, I taught her how to sew - which assisted her spatial knowledge; I taught her how to cook - which helped her a great deal with fractions; I was her 4-H leader - which taught her volunteerism, along with all of the other things we both learned; like how to conduct a meeting, working in groups, how to win and how to lose, how to prepare yourself as well as your project for judgeing. I was involved with her classes as a room mother/class chaparone - I think I missed one field trip in 11 years. We also did a lot of educational things on our own, and as family vacations - trips to museums, zoos, historical places - where she learned to use maps to plot a route, figure miles/time, figure gas milage on the car, along with learning about the place we were visiting. We also used programs for the computer - at age 9, she was able to type far better than I. I worked with her on her reports for school - and she assisted me with my papers for nursing school; as she knew how to cite references, and I didn't.

What I have now is a 17 year old who can write an excellent college application letter, get online, order plane tickets, drive herself to the airport in a large city, check in and board, fly 1000 miles from home, get a cab and go to her destination, use public transportation to get to a University, find the administration office and participate in an interview process that ended up with her being not only admitted to the university, but offered grants and scholorships to attend. I couldn't have prepared her for this on my own.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

What you did, Polly, is what my parents did with us, too. However, I'm not sure any of the other parents did with their children. If they did, I never heard about it from my peers!

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

I think you underestimate yourself, Polly! I do think you are correct in saying that she wouldn't have done as well if you had not augmented her education from home. And as far as all those things you have forgotten, it's amazing how fast you can pick it back up. It's definitely not like learning it for the first time. I know I can't teach them everything. But I certainly didn't learn everything in my public school experience . I've taught myself so many things as an adult whether it be out of desire or need. I think that's how it will be for my kids too.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

In a one-parent household, unless the parent is on welfare or works out of the home, the children have to be somewhere while the parent is at work. That somewhere is most likely the public school system. If all of the parents who want to take an active part in their child's education pull them out and homeschool, what's going to happen to the public schools?

I'm not against homeschooling, I just like to play Devil's Advocate from time to time. (although in my case, would that be playing Loki's Advocate? or maybe Coyote? )

Thread drift warning! On Friday I met someone in real life who knows Denise from another forum. Small world! :)

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

I certainly never intended to indicate that I thought people were bad parents if they didn't homeschool. I just happened to be one of the people that deeply resented it that I didn't have the choice. Every time we have one of these homeschool discussions it gets down to this, no matter what forum it is on. What works for one family won't necessarily work for another. It varies from child to child as far as learning styles etc. We don't all have the same resourses as far as available schools or homeschool abilities. Not a single one of the so-called professionals were able to do what needed to be done for my particular children.

I don't as a rule even participate in these discussions on the other forums as I think it has been hammered into the ground enough times to be nauseating. Since it was HERE and IMO a rather outlandish example of what could be WRONG with homeschooling, I choose to participate and once again am sorry that I did.

In a perfect world perhaps what Polly suggests would be the most balanced way to school a child. It certainly worked for many years. In my state the teacher's union has gotten so outrageous that even very good teachers think it stinks. It is all in personal opinion and choice and totally unfair to judge anyone in regards to what choices they make for their own children.

Oh, and Sherri, I think it has already happened to our schools, at least around here. When slowly but surely the state took away our ability to have neighborhood schools and to feel like we had a say in what was being taught, people of all religions etc. started pulling out. It certainly isn't just a Christian thing by any means.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Thinking back to my single parent days... (Although, I was never really a single parent; as Jes always had two parents - we just didn't live in the same house!) How would I have tried to home school? How about the parent working a job where the hours do not fall in conflict with when the child is in school/being schooled? Looking around at work, I see a lot of those folks. Having a good relationship with the child's other parent is a plus; that way you could work out your job and schooling schedule so they don't conflict. That's pretty much what I did, even though Jes did attend public school. One time, I was attending school, working in a convience market, tutoring, and sewing for people at home. Jes went to the college with me and did her school work or read while I was tutoring, watched while I cut out patterns and stitched, and went to her Dad's house the couple of nights a week that I worked at the market. My boss worked my job hours around evenings that Jes could spend with her Dad. She also stayed at night with her Dad or Grandpa (Pop) when I took at job working 11pm-7am. Yeah, sleep suffered. So what else is new?! If no other parent is in the picture, or is unsuitable, Grandparents or trusted friends in the area can also help with scheduling time for school - or can do part of the schooling.

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Well, I think that the public schools would get much better if everyone started pulling their kids out. It might just get their attention!

And Sherri, she mentioned that to me. Isn't that funny! I just met her about a week ago at a brand new forum for Susun Weed's students. She seems very nice. I heard that you are nice too!

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

Now Denise, you just hush! If you keep telling folks that I'm nice it's positively going to ruin my ferocious reputation! :D

-- Anonymous, March 27, 2002

As I posted on CS, my mom taught me at home (off-hours) while I went to public school. That indeed was the best of both worlds, imho.

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002

I was taught the same way as Sheepish and Polly too, regular public school during the day, and Mom and Dad making up for, adding too, and in general, "over- seeing" any and all things that the school teachers overlooked or misrepresented. My parents CHOICE of where they chose to live was based on the suitability and quality of the whole area/village/town, as well as the local school system. It was not a rich or well funded system, but, the whole town CARED about it's growing children and acted appropriately.

Folks are missing the whole point about education, wherever they CHOSE to teach their children, the quote goes, "It takes a whole village to raise a child", is very, very true! It is more important to chose an appropriate place to LIVE and RAISE a child than the exact method you chose to educate and teach that child respectively. That is a decision that every parent must make before even giving birth to said child, where to live! Familial sense of community has all but been forgotten with the resulting effects evident every day on the news!

So dear Sherri, don't feel left out, or less of parent for not choosing to homeschool, your entire community will help educate your child with you if you live in an appropriate area that actually still cares about how children are raised. In our small community, there are NO secrets about anyone and anything, the entire community self polices itself and everyone else's business, everyone knows who is on drugs, or is a drunk, or who beats their spouse, cheats on their spouse, skips classes, etc., etc. This is a "good thing" when it comes to raising and educating a child, and something every parent should strive to obtain for themselves and their family.

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002

Annie, I was just asking the question for the sake of discussion. I don't even have any children, unless you count the cats. :)

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002