This is more of an announcement. My wife and I decided to sell 40 acres to get out of debt. It's been a tough decision, giving up some of what we've worked so hard for in the last 8 years. We got past that and understand the lessons learned now. So, we decided to start an essay contest for someone to win 40 acres of high mountain desert in the Rocky Mountains. The entry fee is $111 and we need a minimum of 1200 entries and have set the maximum at 5000. If you're interested, please check out www.apeaceinparshall.com. Maybe your dreams can come true too!

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 17, 2002

Answers

Didn't I see this same con here about two years ago?? Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Is this legal !! I know in some states you can't do this but that doesn't usually stop a lot of us !! (LOL) But....how do we know you are for real ???? Don't think I would want desert land...anyone have any swamp land in Florida to sell while we are at it ?? Don't mean to offend if you are on the "up and up" but you can't be too careful now a days.

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), March 17, 2002.

Lets see 1200 equals 133,200 dollars and 5000 equals 555,000 for 40 acres of desert land thats really worth what. Besides being illegal. Get real folks this scam has been around for years. Don't waste your money. If you want to be stupid send your money to me you don't have to write anything. Thanks in advance for the money

-- David in North Al. (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), March 17, 2002.

It's not illegal in many states but that's an outrageous take of money for 40 acres of high desert land.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

I think this is a good one for Chuck to look at!

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

So is over $40 an acre taxes for that chunk of land! Holy cow, are taxes that high when you're that high???? :)

To anyone entering, realize you are in for a lot of expense on this should you manage to win, closing costs, taxes, and _any_ legal fees. This ain't free. :) The smallest check you write will be for the entery fee.

The entery rules have an error - they state an essay of either less than 200 or less than 250 words - which is it?

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Yep, we all just fell off the turnip cart! Ah, for anyone really going to enter....I have some nice Florida swamp land for sale if your interested....LOL!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

I'm collecting donations for the summer homeless. Summer homeless- ness is a growing problem in America. It affects millions of people who although might have a nice home, in summertime they feel depressed and impovished because they don't own a cabin or retreat by a lake , river , ocean or in the mountains for them to vacation in ..For each donation of a hundred dollars or more, you will recieve a packet that includes pictures of the family you sponsored on vacation at their new summer home, swimming ,hiking ,barbaqueing,drinking beer, and just living it up and beimg away from it all.You will also recieve post cards from them while they are on vacation. Please help and together we can put an end to summer homeless-ness in America for everyone.

-- SM Steve (unreal@msn.com), March 17, 2002.

I don't know real estate prices in that area, but I do know that in many states it is completely LEGAL to hold a drawing for land by holding a contest. Most people have an entry fee of between $100 and $500, but limit the number of entries to somewhat in reason of what the land is worth, but I do not think there is any limit on the number of entries. Some people do reserve the right to refund each entry if the minimum required entries are not met. The drawings such as above, usually have a bond or insurance issued to cover the maximum stated number of entries in case of fraud. There is generally a board selected, with names listed, of the the people who are chosen to pick the winner of the contest. The homeowner generally has last choice in selection from a small "final" list of entries (those that make the cut from the overall large selection of entries. I would not enter any contest that was not overseen by an external group. Many times accounting firms will oversee such a contest and the money sent in is held in escrow until the winner is chosen. Legitimate land contests can be a lot of fun, but realize that it is a chance and you will still have to pay out for transfer tax fees, and deed transfers, surveys, etc. However, if you win, you got yourself a chunk of land for $111 plus costs. It really doesn't matter what the total of the monies sent in is - as the people sending money in are all paying the same amount - $111. It is not as though one person is paying for the whole amount. So check out the contest thoroughly, and the seller should be able to provide the details as to water, zoning, etc. prior to your entry. This should probably be verified through the local zoning assessor or tax assessors office - be sure of what you are getting if you cannot travel to view the land in person. Sure there are scams, but there are legitimate contests also. Buying real estate should always be looked at with "buyer beware" in the back of your mind.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), March 17, 2002.

Daryll, a similar contest was posted on here some time ago. And if I remember correctly, someone posted an update that they never got the minimum entries needed so the contest was cancelled.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), March 17, 2002.

Hello David,

40 Acres! Throw in a mule and you've got yourself a deal!

Sincerely,

Gone With The Wind

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

Hello, I guess I have some answering to do. First of all you need to know that this is legitimate. Jody and I have come from love with all that we do.

Daryll, This is not a con. We have an asset that can put us where we want to be and thought that it would be neat for another person to be able to start off without a mortgage. I hope you understand this.

Helena, This is legal in the state of Colorado. I guess for now, the only way for you to know we're for real is to accept the truth from me in saying that we are for real. Jody and I have had the equivalent of a double mortgage for 8 years now and it's finally caught up with us. This contest will take care of our financial problems. The land is definetly not swamp land or useless land. It's not the best pasture and it's not a hay field. Whoever wins this contest is basically starting from scratch just like we have done. We are on the "up and up".

David in North Alabama, The ending amount really shouldn't matter to you. If you win, the amount will be $111 plus misc costs mentioned on the web site. Like I said before, this is not illegal in the state of Colorado. This is not a scam. I don't think there's anything I could say to convince you. Wasted energy.

Dave, The possibilities for us could be astounding. Again, if you win, your entry fee was $111. This year our county assessor assessed the property at $88,000. For us to be where we want to be, we need $120K. That's where the minimum was set. If the maximum is met, we will be completely credit free. Doesn't this look appealing to you? Wouldn't you attempt this vs. the easy way out (bankruptcy)? The reason why we went in this direction is because it can help someone else. What you give you get back double fold in my opinion. Also, real estate is moving pretty slow up here, except for major subdivisions with association dues, etc.

BC, Who's Chuck? I assure you this is legitimate.

Paul, We are in the middle of ski resort heaven. This is the main factor in our area when it comes to property taxes. The best way to beat this is to obtain agricultural status. If this land had that, the taxes would be approximately $30/year. We have not obtained it because we are just now really understanding what it takes to obtain that status. It takes three years to prove and can be obtained by leasing the land to a rancher who is in the business to make a profit. This land is in a good spot for this because the BLM it borders is leased by a local rancher up the road. I have not talked to him yet about this so I can not guarantee this. Another way is for the land owner to be in the business to make a profit agriculturally. With us working strictly to pay bills and stay above water, our direction has not gone this way yet. I'm glad you mentioned expenses. I'm working on some personal blurbs, from both Jody and I, sharing our lessons learned and what you're in for. My biggest thing is the property taxes. Even though the winner will not have a mortgage, they will need to be ready to pay the annual property taxes. We have three properties and it definetly caught up with us. I was concerned about typos, Jody gave me a very early deadline of 3/15 because we wanted to hand out flyers at the Horse Expo in Denver (which is where she is right now). I looked for what you mentioned and could not find it. We did set the limit to 250 words. Please point it out if you could. I apologize to everyone for any mistakes of that sort, I will gladly fix it once I know about it.

Karen, I sure hope you decide to enter. I don't have any nice Floriday swamp land for sale.

SM Steve, We mainly contribute locally when it comes to donations but if things go well we will keep you in mind. Just in case I need to prove someting here: This will be our 8th year running the Kremmling Gymkhanas as volunteers and our 4th year hosting St. Jude Childrens Research Hospital "Saddle Up" fund raising trail rides. I would encourage anyone in our area to do the St Jude's rides. Our rides are on private ranches vs. public land. The first year was the Taussig Ranch, then Williams Peak Ranch. Last years was part of the Ellisons Ranch and this year will be the George's Ranch in Yampa.

Cindy, I mentioned the assessed value of the property above to be $88K. There's a guy selling two separate 40's north of us for $220K and $180K. They have a small stream going through them. When it comes to the judging, both Jody and I are getting the entries to the top ten. We have chosen a non-profit organization (our attorney says to not mention names in case it changes) for the final ten and they have accepted. We feel that we are the best judges for our contest, we want to know our neighbors. Jody and I are doing this ourselves with the help of our attorney and future help from the title company. Thank you for making it clear about the entry fee. I plan on providing links on the website to our local county government where you can view some recorded info about the property. I can pretty much answer most of those questions also. Again this is legitimate.

Ok, I think I covered everything so far. I will be glad to this again and again if need be. I don't have the best modem situation (typical connect rate of 4800baud) so my messages are usually reviewed and answered early in the morning or late at night. Hopefully I can get this through now.

Thanks, David Nixon

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 17, 2002.

Some more answers: SM Steve, Now that I have read your message again I see that it was a joke. Hopefully you now understand that I'm not.

Bren, Thank you for pointing that out. I would not have been able to defend myself with this one.

Gone With The Wind, We don't have mules but we do have a fainting goat that we can throw in.

Well, I think I will take Izzac and his friend Austin to do some sledding.

Thanks, David

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 17, 2002.

Checking things out is wise. But let's get all the votes counted before we declare a loser.

Never really thought about it, but I imagine lynch mobs were mostly made up of 'good'people.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), March 17, 2002.

I can't blame you one bit for trying David and anything is better than claiming bk and stiffing people. It's going to be tough to get 1200 entries though. Good luck.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.

In some states, these ARE legal, although usually there is also a legal requirement to refund all the entry fees if the minimum number isn't met. Why would you want a maximum anyway--you'd be throwing away money.

There's a book out called How to sell your home in 5 Days, or something like that, where you price under market and get people to bid for it. Saves the cost of an agent. Check it out of your library--I'm sure the principles could be applied to selling land as well.

Another option, if you don't have any relatives to sell it/leave it to is seeing if you can donate it to some organization (church, Nature Conservancy, etc.) in exchange for a life estate, if you still want to live there. Just a thought.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 17, 2002.

If you spent any time at all here you would know Chuck. Are you a newbie? And, by the by, how would everyone know if you cancelled the contest? Would you refund their monies? Or?

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), March 17, 2002.

Well, the sledding hill doesn't have enough snow on it anymore, so we just played in the haystack. Thank you Dave, for the luck. I feel that in numbers, 1200 is a very small fraction of even our nearest big city Denver. I just need to get the word out and that's exactly what I'm doing now. Thanks to GT for the other options. It's mentioned in our rules that we will return $100 to each applicant if the minimum is not met. The other $11 is retained for handling fees, etc. This is going to be and already has been a lot of work for us. We set a maximum number of entries to show people that there is a limit. If you logon to essaycontests.com and look at the section on past winners, one contest had 55,000 entries. 1) There's no way Jody and I will be able to read this many essays, 2) Your chances are much better with 5,000 vs. 55,000 and 3) As I mentioned before, the maximum will put us in a place we've dreamed for for so long now and our dreams go beyond monetary issues. The maximum will allow us to start over and do what we want. I want to raise our son Izzac, produce our own food (hopefully enough to market also), build an analog and digital music studio, along with cabins for a peaceful place for musicians to create, to be highly active in the alternative energy field and maintain our future family web site. Jody wants to raise our son Izzac, work and play with horses (she highly recommends the Pat Parelli method) and create artwork to be sold on the future family website. I can see it, I can almost touch it, it will manifest. Gailann, I mentioned above the policy on returns. I must be a newbie. I’ve responded to a couple of items before but that’s it. I’ve been a subscriber since the July 1999 issue and it’s a fantastic magazine. Come on folks, take a chance at winning this piece of ground (if you need land). Jody and I are honest, loving people and have no bad intentions.

Thanks, David

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 17, 2002.

Send me a copy of the rules, I have plenty of 40 acres high desert plots that I need to sell. According to your $11.00 keeping fee, if I get 1200 people to enter, then I make $13,200.00 for running the contest. Plus I can invest the money while I wait for the proper number of entrants and make money off of that. Then if I don't like any of the entries I can declare no winner and keep the $13,200(+) and do it again, with the same land.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

Yes, I know it is legal and all that, to run a raffle ticket type lottery to sell a peice of land. I have seen it done before. However, I seriously doubt if anyone who would put up $111 of hard- earned cash on land he had never even seen, would have enough common sense to survive homesteading.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

BC, The rules are in the website, just cut and paste. It's nice that you have plenty of 40's, I'm happy for you, do what you want with them. There is no way we are not going to find like minded people turning in essays. This never crossed our minds, to not find a winner out of 1200-5000 people. Are there any more angles of deceit you can teach me? Again everyone, we are honest, loving people. Come share this wonderful area with us.

Daffodyllady, This is not a raffle, it's an essay contest. I'm doing my best to supply as many pictures as possible. Let us know if you're in the area, we'll be glad to show you the property.

Thanks, David David

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 17, 2002.

I really have no idea why a lot of people are so down on what David is trying to do. It is legal, it is no worse than buying lottery tickets (and actually there is some skill involved in writing a good essay, so your chances of winning are pretty decent), and I'm sure there is no problem with going out and physically checking the property if you need to (you would probably have to make an appointment), which you would do with any property. People take more chances bidding on FHA and HUD auctions. It is also a good bet that even with this type of contest the owners are not exempt from disclosure laws if there are any.

I have not seen it done much with bare land, this type of contest is usually done with businesses such as bed and breakfasts. And so you spend $111 plus costs if you win--if you don't like the land after a while, donate it somewhere and take a tax write-off.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 17, 2002.

There was a similar contest out in the midwest that didn't work because not enough people applied. In the case that this doesn't work out, what are your back-up plans?

Of course, you COULD advertize in the local paper that you have a pasture to rent, which may get you your exemption after 3 years. You MIGHT split off 2-5 acres to sell to pay your more pressing bills to give you more breathing room, assuming the zoning allows a lot this small. 2 acre parcels will get someone out of the city who cannot afford a full 40 acres, and the per-acre return will be higher. How close to the slopes are you? I once went to a tourist trap on the east coast with VERY high rent: some people were putting their stuff in storage and living in a rented room during tourist season and renting their home out by the week. I can see some risk in this, but that is what they were doing.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), March 18, 2002.

Terri, the biggest risk with what you were mentioning is the neighbors telling code enforcement that you're essentially running a hotel, which you are, and then you would be hit with occupancy tax, bed tax, business tax, etc. Not everyone will buy the story that you're having a family reunion every week/weekend of ski season....:)

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 18, 2002.

Hello again, Had to do the ole 9-5. Thank you very much GT for that comparison.

Terri, If the minimum number of applicants is met, their entry fee minus a handling fee will be returned. It seems like we've always had the option to rent out pasture but there's always been enough of our horses on it. Anymore animals and we would be over grazing. I know, priorities, priorites. This is just the way it turned out. In Colorado, it takes 35 acres to obtain a domestic well (which can supply up to 3 single family dwellings, 1 acre of irrigation, 6 horses and other typical outdoor use). Right now I can divide this property into thirds and sell it for more but the well status will drop to in-house use only. Your not even supposed to water your dog with this well status. We can buy water out of a few reservoirs around here for an annual fee in order to retain the domestic status. All this subdivision process and water augmentation is a little out of our reach financially. The nearest slopes to us is Sol-Vista (formerly Silver Creek) and it's about 20-25 minutes away. Affordable housing has always been an issue up here since I got here in 1988 and probably way before that. I haven't really seen it as bad as what you mentioned. The biggest problem here is that there are so many second and third homes folks own up here. A lot of them are vacant 75% of the year. The housing is here, it’s just not available to long term renters.

I truly believe this land we purchased 8 years ago was bought sub- consciously to save our butts right about now. We will still have 59 acres, it's not the end of the world for us (this took some convincing to myself!) We’re ready for your essays, bring it on and good fortune.

-- David Nixon (arfg@rkymtnhi.com), March 19, 2002.

David, went to the website you gave in your first post and I couldn't find anything about your contest. What do I have to click on to find the rules?

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), March 19, 2002.

Thanks for the link, David. For others, when you cut and paste the address make sure you leave out the period after "com". When you leave that period in, the address takes you to a different site. Weird!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), March 19, 2002.

David, Is there any water on the property? If I had to drill a well how far down would I probably have to go? Any improvements? How is the county building dept? Do they allow small, homestead type homes? Is off grid possible or do they have laws against it like Garfield Co does? Is alternative housing (straw bale, cob, adobe etc) a problem with the bldg dept. Some will allow it but at prohibitive cost. What is the altitude? kim in co

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), March 21, 2002.