Please don't turn this into anything other than what it is intended -- just something I have been wondering about! I have been noticing that in my years of homesteading I don't recall ever seeing, or hearing about, a non-white homesteader unless it was someone homesteading in a foreign country. I don't recall ever even seeing a photo in Countryside, Mother Earth, or the other homesteading magazines of a black homesteader or an oriental homesteader, etc. Certainly they are out there. Wonder why homesteading attacks so many white folks?

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002

Answers

Chuck, if this gets out of hand or brings out the bozos, please delete the thread. But I am hoping we can all have a civil discussion in here for a change.

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

In Backwoodshome magazine there was an article about an Asian homesteading. Jan/Feb I believe or maybe the month earlier.

-- Dave in Ohio (dr43147@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

In the spring I am a "light tan" color, In summer a "red" man, in fall, a "Dark Tan" in winter a little "blue"

-- Gary (gws@columbus.rr.com), March 05, 2002.

Gary , I think we are all blue about now !!!! Come on spring.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Gary, you had the exact same thought as I did, but I'm the only truly white person on our homestead-unless you count freckles, the rest of my family is more a peachy beige.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

The concept of HOMESTEADING is a white cultural phenomenon. Pioneers, etc., in our heritage.

Here in my part of South Texas, the predominant ethnic group is Czech. These people escaped from the oppressive Prussian Empire in the early 1900s and came to Texas to farm.

The Irish came to the U.S. to escape the potato famine of the mid 1800s, and owning land is near and dear to our hearts because it was so difficult for peasant Irish to own land on the Emerald Isle.

Blacks were brought here as slaves and their cultural goal was to escape from the type of farm labor that we whites embrace.

Hispanics have no history of pioneers, but they have a long history of ranching and cowboying. South of me, the big ranches are owned by Hispanic families, and the ranch may have been in the family for many generations. The big ranch culture doesn't have the head of the household gardening and making butter; there are servants for that.

Look back in your own personal heritage at the culture of your grandparents and great grandparents. The clues are there.

-- Rose in South Texas (open_rose@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Lot's of Hispanics here that own tracts of land and do what I would call homesteading. The culture of these people (and many other "homesteaders")just doesn't lend itself to the magazine buying need of the sort that Countryside and Mother Earth News appeal to. While I live a homesteading lifestyle because I want to and it fullfills my dreams many others live it because they know or could not imagine anything else. These folks are not getting back to the country, they have never left. Nor do they want to leave.

The magazines and web forums attract only a small group of homesteaders.

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), March 05, 2002.

Karen, I am a Native American, trying to be Homesteader. Actually, I grew up in the country doing alot of what homesteaders do now. You know, chopping woods, hauling water, gardening, feeding and butchering chickens, etc. My Grandparents and their parents did all this too. My Gramps had one of the biggest potato gardens in the area at one time. Of course, we are considered gatherers by nature or culture. So my family makes it a fun time of going out in groups to pick berries, make maple syrup or gather wild rice. You can't beat the country, can you?!!!

-- Jean in No. WI (jat@ncis.net), March 05, 2002.

My husband is Hispanic,but I'm white...does that count?He doesn't speak Spanish,and is very light...does that make a difference? LOL

-- Johna (marcnjohna@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

Well, what a hoot! My husband is Native American, I am as white as a lily in the Winter and tan as toast in the Summer(Dutch decendants) and the kids are all as beautiful brown as they can be all year long! We have neighbors that are every shade of the rainbow....well, maybe not green unless you count my neighbor in rehab down the road.....Been looking for a purple one....that would be pretty wouldn't it!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), March 05, 2002.

Hi All, Well here in NW FLA there are far more black homesteader types than white. Also a few Hispanics. The big farms are mostly 2nd and 3rd generation,both black and white. The small farms are mostly whites escaping the cities or black families that have been here forever. I think small farming is a life style here, very few would consider themselves homesteaders-unless they are like me(escapees from the city). Most of the small farmers around here that have computers are white or Hispanic and from the cities. So ,I think that affects the head count of races. If I need advice I seek out the old timers-black, white, or brown. I think the gods smiled on me when I stumbled upon this area and used my vacation money for a down payment on my little piece of paradise. Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Me and the wife both qualify as Native american by the standards going around today. This means we are probably a small percentage black, english, german, dutch, creek, cherokee and several others. That means WE ARE AMERICANS. Don't refer to me as anything other than american, not if you don't want to see a bad side of me. Have a aquantiance that claims to be creek indian, says memeber of a certain clan, has red hair lets get real. Just an american and thats the most important.

-- David in North Al (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), March 05, 2002.

Been bicultural, I realized something, my family in Cuba survived for years from my grandmother land, and they harvest the ground, raise all kind of animal, even had their own soap. During the communist regime, which still is in power. Homesteading save my family life, and my life. But other cultures don't call homesteading, by that name. I guess in the Spanish culture, they just call it farming. The whole planet homesteads. But in the big cities. So I don't know what Karen is talking about. And the question I think is plain racist. Who care if a black, or a japanese, or a white, homestead? We need to forget about the differences among us and been just what God intended human. Karen your question is out of tone. Or shade I should say.

-- Ralph Roces (rroces1@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

Common you all, it is only offensive if you take offense. To be offended is a choice. I am sure that Karen meant no offense, she was just curious. I agree with you, that most people in other parts of the world are much more in tune with nature and have been "homesteading" out of neccessity forever. We are just realizing that it is a great, simple, wonderful way of life. In general we have our prejudices...not about race, but about our way of life being better than the congested, noisy, dirty cities!

-- Peacemaker (common you guys@chilly. today), March 05, 2002.

Hello Karen,

I am white of German origin and my wife is Puerto Rican. We live in the Ozarks, (Southern Missouri).

Sincerely,

Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Ralph, my sincerest apology. It certain is not intended to be racist. It was just wondering why there aren't more homesteaders of differant races. Your response is almost funny --not making fun at you...just funny to my family because I am probably the least racist most tollerant and open minded person you will ever meet! I don't care what color/race/religion or planet someone is from. It was only an observation. I would have thought that since so many races have, through the years, been supressed that they would be the homesteaders (getting out of the city, feeding themselves, etc.) and the whites would be the ones left in the city. It is not a racist remark, just the way history has played out in the past. Again, my apology if you thought I meant any thing other the most sincerest question.

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

In most third world countries, homesteading is considered living. I find nothing about this forum that would particularly attract people of other cultures other than WASP types. That was not ment as an offense to anyone, just my opinion. There have been a few real native americans that have been here in the last couple of years, but they mostly moved on.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

I really can't see anything offensive about Karen's post! In fact, I think that it's mighty interesting. You see, when it comes to skin color, I'm color-blind. I realized that in high school. I just don't see skin color. All of my family, on both my mother's and father's, came from Belgium. I believe they were all farmers. My DH is clearly German, judging by his last name.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

I think there are more "non-white" homesteaders in the world than "white". They call it surviving instead of homesteading, and most of them don't buy homesteading magazines or have computers. Best wishes!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

I agree with Daine's post. In our area the old timers, be them black or white have been homesteading for generations. Gardening, raising stock, quilting, one of my first mentors in goats in our area was an elderly black gentleman, I learned to make Feta cheese from a gal who though white took on the muslim dress and customs of her husband. I know one black family that lurks on this forum, and one biracial faimly who is white with a vietnamese wife, she makes the most wonderful soap! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Booker T Whatley wrote a great book about small farming and he was black. I love that book!! I have always wondered about this too, mostly because I live in a mostly white area and have never seen any articles in C- Side or TMEN about any homesteaders other than white- except for the rare article about some guy who had wife from another country. Why don't these magazines clue in to the fact that not everyone is white?? I am 75% white, 25% asian, I look white, but somehow have never felt entirely white...not that I minded. :)

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 05, 2002.

Theres always one complainer ! Sorry just plain boring white here .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

This subject has always facinated me! I love to find out peoples' 'pedigrees' but usually hesitate to ask for fear someone will take offense for one reason or the other.

I'm so white I glow in the dark - Northern European Aryan/Jew mutt. My husband is first generation American, his whole family on both sides is from Chihuahua, Mexico. If there's any actual Spanish blood in him it ain't much because he's very brown. We guess he's mostly Indian with a little Negro mixed from way back. Like David says, we're AMERICANS. It always annoys me that some people tend to equate homesteader types with those White-supremacist $$$holes.

-- Jorja Hernandez (jorja@color-country.net), March 05, 2002.

"content of character - not the color of skin"

I like Gary's answer best

-- B. Lackie - Zone3 (cwrench@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

I come from German background and my wife is from El Salvador (Central America) for what its worth.

God Bless.

-- Charles Steen (Xbeeman412@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

My families have been in the "New World" so long nobody knows what all we are anymore (besides American). One of my brothers gets so dark in the summer he matched his best "black" friend when he was little. I'm pale and red headed. We share the same parents BTW. I think it's extreamly interesting.

-- Susan in Northern LP Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

After thinking about this post a couple of thoughts came to me:1.Most of the non white homesteaders that I know dont use the computer so You would not hear from them on this forum. 2.Many non whites live a life that paralells homesteding life style but dont call themselves homesteaders.

God Bless.

-- Charles Steen (Xbeeman412@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

I am darker than 100% of the Asian-Americans, 80% of the Native Americans, 60% of the Hispanic-Americans, and 30% of the African- Americans that I meet. All of you 'White' people (African-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American, or Native-American) look sickly to me. War Zonker! War George Hamilton!

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), March 05, 2002.

Karen,

Since you asked for answers to your questions and not lectures I'll do what I can.

My family is Caucasian of primarily Scots/Irish/English descent but I've been all of my life in North and Central Florida. I can tell you that here in this area there are a *lot* of non-white homesteaders, primarily black but seemingly an increasing number of hispanics. They are out there and they do many of the same things that I do so far as homesteading activities are concerned.

Chances are though that few of them will be on this forum for the reasons that others above have already identified. Many, presently a majority I believe, don't own home computers. Of the ones that do have home computers or have the sort of access to them at their place of work that would allow them Internet access most of them don't identify with the Homesteading Movement.

We do the same sorts of things and have many of the same sorts of interests but they don't think of themselves as "homesteaders" whereas many of us white folks do. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that many of them have been doing this stuff right on, it's nothing new to them just a part of the way they've always lived. For many of us white folks it's something we're trying to get *back* to and thus we consciously think about it more and tend to look more for those areas where there others like us.

Heck, I can tell you right now that both my grandparents and parents do many of the same kinds of things I'm doing but they certainly don't think of themselves as "homesteaders." It's mostly stuff they've done much of, probably all of, their lives. I grew up with it myself but then went through a lot of years being away from it and am now going back. We all do the same things but they don't think of themselves as homesteaders and I do.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), March 05, 2002.

I don't know why the question would offend any more than the recently asked one of how old we all were. No one seemed to mind that one. Isn't about just getting to know each other a little better. I'm white.

-- Sharon (spangenberg@hovac.com), March 05, 2002.

Karen, if you are asking how many of us were "city-fied" and then broke back to the country, I'm curious about the ratio too. I HAVE noticed that there seem to be a lot of single females here. My ethnic ancestry is German, Dutch, English. My Great-grandpa (mother's side) came over on the boat from Holland. My father's family is purported to be German and English - but they have characteristics of Native Americans and have not researched their lineage. But I DO think it would be interesting to know how many of us ran the "race" and went back "home"....

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

There are lots of non-white folks that homestead in the U.S..It might be the magazines you mentioned are directed at a white yuppie type of crowd .A lot of white people move away from the cities to rural areas that do not welcome non whites and the magazines probably know this .. Alot of white peoples reason for moving to rural places are to live in a place where there aren't non whites.So you might have stumbled on to something.That a lot of the magazines about homesteading have some racial overtones.And the non whites can feel this , and don't care to try to force themselves into a world they are not going to be welcomed in. My olive skin tone, even in mid winter has help my casper the ghost toned neighbors, dubb me as the SAND -IGGER.And I'm 6th generation American from British decendents.I guess I picked up some native American blood along the way.Or one of my great great grandmothers was sleeping with one of the slaves.

-- SM Steve (unreal@msn.com), March 05, 2002.

My father was from Newfoundland and they where fishermen and woodsmen. They also ran homesteads to provide the food they needed. He was dark, with black eyes an looked Native American. My mother's father grew up on a sugar plantation in Barbadoes. I know very little about his ancestry and ahve been checkeing into it. People assume that he had to have been mixed living in that area. I don't know and it really doesn't matter to me. I think one of the wonderful things about this country is the ethnic diversity that we all share. I grew up in the city (Cambridge, Mass) and couldn't wait to be old enough to move to the country. Never liked anything about the city and always was a country girl at heart. I even tried a few years ago to convice my hubby to move up to Newfoundland, as I still have property up there. But, he wouldn't go that far from civilization. Me I would love it.

Renie

-- Irene Burt (renienorm@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

Personally, although I don't think this question is racist, I am certainly glad that most homesteading magazines don't seek to divide homesteaders by racial lines. The national press' has made it such an issue that instead of acceptance it breeds more tension. As for me and my house, My husband is of latin american origin. All of his grandparents came from Mexico. He has aunts with light hair and green eyes. He has dark hair and dark eyes, but skin nearly as light as mine. I consider myself pleasantly pink, thank you. There are moments when I wish we'd just all drop the race issue. Why feed the fire? The simple truth is, that we are all human. The color lines we make are only there because we make them. I'm for human pride. Can we have a human pride week? If we are going to divide ourselves, at least let's divide oursleves by ideology. At least that means something. It certainly doesn't matter what color a person's skin is. What matters is who they are inside. As for homesteading, I would love to see homesteading be a universal movement that doesn't cross racial boundaries, but erases them completely.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), March 05, 2002.

I have only posted on the forum a few times, but I read it almost everyday. I am fairly new to the homesteading concept with most of my efforts having been within the last 2 years. I like Alan's answer. I found this question interesting because I have just started to research my family heritage. It appears that I am a mixed up mutt also with most of my family being of Scottish, Irish, English, and Dutch background. I do also have some Native American Indian heritage. I apparently picked up the Irish pale skin, freckles, & red hair, but not the temper, of course!LOL Thanks for your recent help with my "kids". They are great fun!

-- Stormy in SC (tstorm@prtcnet.com), March 05, 2002.

Half-breed native american here. I'm one-half cherokee and the other half of me is made up of german, dutch, and irish. I live on what was origanal alotted indian land that was given to my great grandpa to farm on. This land was given to my ancestors in turn for their land in Gorgia and the Carolinas when forced to move from their. The white side of my ancestors have always been of the nomadic people. Always moving to where they thought the best money was to be made. Therefore I have relatives in Texas, New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, California, and only God knows whereelse. My native american ancestors who moved here from the east have just basically always stayed here in this area, so I have a lot of relatives that live around me.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), March 05, 2002.

this reminds me of when we first started home schooling many many many years ago....someone made the comment that we were just pulling our kids out of public school because of "race" which was the furtherest thing from our minds!!!

So one of the first homeschooling parents I met with a really neat black guy!!!!

I have a lot of Native American in me (some Cherokee and Creek) and husband has some German and some Indian)

I thought ALL homesteaders were kind of light brown....like the dirt we work in all the time!!!!

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), March 05, 2002.

When I lived in Miami Fla I noticed a lot of both african americans and hispanis growing their own food and raising their own animals. I did not see many whites doing either.Most whites I knew got all they needed from the store.

-- george nh (rcoopwalpole@aol.com), March 05, 2002.

Here in Indiana, We country people just call it being country or just plain farming and there are all kinds ethnic groups here it makes no difference to me of what race,or religion one is,if my neighbor is as hard working and out to feed his own then he has my respect.I feel the main thing is we don't hear of the differences is because many ethnic groups have never left the country and they make no association with Homesteading or ever felt they were doing anything extraordinary or differnt which i thing is city thing.

-- Shedrick (living naturally@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

I myself dont find the question racst at all. but that is me i sometimes find myself asking questions to friends of a different color/culture about things that i might not ever have a clue about other wise. its how we learn. the lack of knowledge tends to create fear,and i have seen fear turn into violence. now i guess im white Gma says im a hinz 57 little of everything, but mostly im red or white then a little tan at the end of the year, I really wish i was of darker complection. being pale then burnt then pealing then white then red and on and on again. really sucks. hehe i went on silage harvest to get my CDL and we had a young black kid with us, for a 19 year old he was a very good driver ( would that be age discrimination ?) o well we spent alot of time in the sun and we got to talking about skin color ok a side note and i know im rambling but this was funny. we were in Greely Colorado, on our way to do a laundry run, he was driving another guy was in the middle, and i was by the door like it really matters but.... we can to a intersection and across it was a car with a younger black man in it. and these two waved at each other like they were long lost pals. well we asked him who he was he had never said anything about having any friends or relitves around there, he looked at us and said he had no idea who he was but, we are the only black guys in this $$$$ town, it just nice to see one another ok reading back i guess you had to be there. now im lost where was i? oh never mind 4 hours sleep then a 12 hour day at work im to tired to think straight any way im going ot bed good nite

-- Mike in KS (mhonk@kscable.com), March 05, 2002.

What a bunch of hogwash! Karen, why would you ask such a question if it didn't matter to you what color people were? You really had to know it would get controversial. And do real homesteaders have time for these kinds of time wasting ramblings? I think not. Everybody forget the color thing and we'll all be happier with each other I'm sure. Now, let's go back to milking, gardening, feeding, or whatever it is we want to do alright?

-- Marvelous (schnauzee@mstar2.net), March 05, 2002.

Perfectly respectable demographics question. Personally, I'm a mutt... light skinned, odd features. But more interesting to me is the tone of racial consciousness in this country. Americans tend to be self effacing, saying that we are such racists and shouldn't be. But in reality, we are one of the most accepting societies in the world. Almost no other country can ANYONE move to and become so thoroughly part of. We should give ourselves a little pat on the back for that and continue to strive for a higher standard of tolerance in diversity than the rest of the world. :)

-- witness (kaitomas@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

Besides, color IS fascinating and a great topic of conversation. Colorblindness is not normal. What fun would that be??? People are interesting because of their unique backgrounds and experiences and what they've done with what they had. I'll be damned if I'm going to get so politically correct that we all have to wear grey and nod our heads continually. Jiminy Cripes!

-- witness (kaitomas@hotmail.com), March 05, 2002.

When I traced my ancestory, I found an English admiral that had some cofusion over the ownership of his vessel and chose to become a "freelance high seas entrapaneur" until the rest of his pirate crew put him ashore in this country and on the other side of the tree were an Irish couple that emmigrated to this country because he was Protestant and she was Catholic. I am just American with old fashioned values and a penchant for Hank Williams Sr. music and not concerning myself with what goes on outside my property lines ( I have enough problems of my own trying to pick up the pieces and find a new mate for the rest of my life :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

My next door neighbor is Donald White. I guess that that makes all of the rest of us in the area non-Whites? Worked for some years with a steer farmer named Wesley Black. Two longtime friends are Jack Green and Phil Rose. And one of my kin married a Hazel Brown. Someone above made mention that the black homesteaders would not have a computer. That was a back-handed slap but everyone remained calm and let it ride. This is a forum for all of the world to see and if there is a chance that one racist kook is watching, any of our friends who would admit to being black would be bombarded with hate mail. So, for all of my friends of "color" out there, stay cool and just look at the majority of the "color blind" posts. Lots of nice people in the CS Forum who don't give a tinker's damn what color you are when we may all be sharing the same homestead problems. We are all suffering from cabin fever in the north and soon we'll all be having real problems to solve on the Forum instead of worrying about what everyone's age and ancestry are.

I was reminded today of a part of early history of SW Wisconsin. An old man died at age 90 in Beetown. Not on most maps as it's just a wide spot in the road. While my Norwegian ancestors were trying to create 40 acres of workland out of 180 acres of limestone hills in the 1860s, a thriving little town of Beetown was established and all residents were 100% freed slaves. Color didn't matter with the rest of the area residents as all were doing the same thing; trying to wrest a living from the soil. The residents of the Beetown area never left but there are no blacks there today. Color didn't matter when a single farmer was looking for a wife or a single woman was looking for a husband. (One of my great uncles came back from Canada with a Mohawk wife!) Some of the old families in SW Wisconsin usually claimed that they got their skin tone from a French ancestor despite Norwegian names back 4 generations!

So what am I? Depends on the events of the day. If working in the garden, a nice loamy color. If cleaning out the pigeon lofts, dusty white. If crawling under my race car, oily black. But I come out of the hot shower nice and pink. So, I would have to admit to being non-white except when covered with pigeon dust.

Has anyone heard of Samuel Gravely, Jr.? He was the first black admiral in the US Navy. When he was the gunnery officer on a Navy cruiser, a smart aleck junior officer commented to the CO that the gunnery officer was colored. The CO replied by asking what color he was as he hadn't noticed!

So, now let's get on with more serious things to worry about.

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 06, 2002.

Human race here. That's how I answer all questions regarding race, as does the rest of my family.

-- lynne (leaves@nothere.com), March 06, 2002.

Exept for a few comments, which I've chosen to ignore, this has been a fascinating thread! I think that learning about the different parts of the world and all the ethnic groups is very interesting. My mother was racist and I found her attitude awfully boring! The diverse ethnic traditions are so much fun to learn! And, yes I said I am color-blind when it comes to skin. I never consciously made that choice. I think that it was because I found that what is in someone's heart to be far more interesting.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

I'm still trying to find the post Martin mentioned that said "Black homesteaders wouldn't have computers." I didn't see it, am I missing something?

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

I think that he was referring to Alan's post where he talked about the minorities around him. I think to view that as a back-handed racial put down was a real stretch myself. I live among a rather large minority group who don't consider themselves homesteaders and don't have computers. They are called Amish. ;>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

Good point, Diane!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

Thanks Diane! I re-read the posts and couldn't see what he was talking about. In my post about non-white people of the world, that covers a lot of people and a lot of colors. I couldn't figure out why Martin would have singled out the black population. Thanks again for the info! Best wishes

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

Actually, there were several of us who have more or less said the same thing. If you'll go back and look at my original post what I actually said was:

"Chances are though that few of them will be on this forum for the reasons that others above have already identified. Many, presently a majority I believe, don't own home computers. Of the ones that do have home computers or have the sort of access to them at their place of work that would allow them Internet access most of them don't identify with the Homesteading Movement.

I don't live in a vacuum here, blacks make up a fair part of our population and of the ones that participate in what we typically call "homesteading" activities what I have said is generally true of the ones that I have met. Many, perhaps even most do not yet have home computers. Home computer ownership is hardly universal here in the South though more folks get them every year. Of the ones that do have them most do not seem to consciously identify themselves with the Homesteading Movement. I'm quite sure there are some trying to "get back to the land" like the rest of us but most of those whom I've met that do our kinds of things have never *left* the land in the first place. If Martin can find a "back handed slap" in that then all I can say is that he's had too much coffee. Just because you keep a garden, raise chickens and what not doesn't necessarily mean you're going to go hang out in the homesteading forums. A fair part of my greater extended family never left the farm and are still there but you won't find them in forums like this. Of the ones that have home PCs (that number grows every year too) they'll go to those areas that interest them. If any of them hang out in places like this they sure haven't mentioned it to me. Mostly they think I'm a little daft for getting into this so much.

What's more if you're here to find out how to best keep your chickens, make a garden and so on why would you bring up your ethnicity? The subject is such a "sore as a boil" topic that no matter how gently and diplomatically you mention it you'll instantly get folks going all bombastic and doing everything BUT answering the questions you actually asked. I think Karen is sure getting an eyeful of that just now.

.....Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), March 06, 2002.

Correct, that mention was in Alan's post. His first paragraph mentioned that the minorities around him were blacks and some hispanics. Second paragraph said that they would probably not have home computers. 12 people can read or see something and all come away with a different interpretation. That's why there are 12 people on a jury. Original question specifically mentioned black and oriental homesteaders. And since it was the original black homesteaders in this area that I was familiar with, I thought that many people would be interested in that well-documented story of Beetown since it also affected my own lily-white Norwegian lineage.

In short, go back and read the original question and all responses in between and see how many actually pertain to the question. Then you'll see where I was coming from when my post was created. Nobody, in my opinion, has yet answered Karen's question, nor has anyone really determined what answer she was searching for!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 06, 2002.

I second Mike in KS sentiments. My name is Julio R. Guerra, which is a definite "Hispanic" name . . . you can almost picture a dark skinned Zapatista rideron a horse, jet black straight hair, brown eyes, sombrero hat, wearing bandoleers of cartridges slung across both shoulders.

Yet my light skin color, wavy brown hair, hazel eyes, (maybe Castilian bloodline?) allows me to pass as "white". Whatever that is. People who I have never met are surprised, at least from what I read in their eyes, when we are formally introduced. I doesn't really bother me; in fact, I often get the same reaction when I find out the racial name doesn't fit their appearance (You are Mexican? Compadre!).

But that is as far as it goes, at least with me. Being a fellow Mexican-American (or is it Texican? Latin-American? I can't keep up with what name I have been labeled with this month . . .) doesn't change my opinion of the person I have just met. Their attitudes, behaviors and actions will do that.

As far as "white" homesteaders posting here often, I think that one reason may be, as someone else posted above, is that they do not have a computer, or do not have the time to be bothered READING about homesteading, they are involved an everyday activity, just making a life for themselves. This isn't homesteading to them, this is just living a life that their parents, grandparents and so on have led.

GOOD QUESTION Karen; I do not see it racist at all. And very interesting to read the various opinions.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), March 06, 2002.

O.K. Martin..........is this the question you are referring to??

"Wonder why homesteading attacks so many white folks?"

Assuming this means attracts :>), this white lady was attracted to homesteading cause it is what I have always done. A better question might be what attracts me to this forum................which I OFTEN guestion myself.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

make that question

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

Alan, my apologies for having read something into that post that may have been interpreted in different ways by different readers. As I have said before, "crow is best eaten while still warm" so I know what lunch will be today!

As for my own ethnicity, seems that I spotted just about every other nationality mentioned and opted to let my own be known as well. After all, we did have a question a few weeks ago about ages and family makeup of the Forum regulars. Perhaps I don't live on a farm anymore and at age 64 I don't have to break my back stacking hay and bucking firewood. Don't have to soap up and spend an hour or more throwing my shoulder out of joint to turn a backwards calf. But unlike many who are young and just starting out, I've "been there, done that" and never forgot. If someone asks a question and I think that I can contribute, I will do so based on my own experiences or knowledge. Your extended family still farming. My hat's off to them as mine is also. Some on the same land since 1866. Dairy farms, horse farms, cash crop farms. If I don't have an answer, one of my cousins will and they all ARE on the Internet!

For Karen, possibly the reason why whites are more attracted to homesteading is perhaps, and I will only say PERHAPS, in case someone else reads this the wrong way. America wasn't settled by office and factory workers but mainly poor European peasants who knew best only how to work with the land and they had been peasants for many generations probably preceding written history. It's in our genes! And if you wonder why there are no blacks or orientals featured in Countryside Magazine, it is a question to ask the editors, not us peasants.

PS Alan, I do prefer tea over coffee. Pot is brewing now to wash down the crow!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 06, 2002.

Martin,

Gladly accepted. In return I'll offer mine to anyone who thought I was making racially derogatory remarks because that certainly isn't what I was trying to express.

Seems we have gotten sidetracked into talking about online discussion forums and not paper printed magazines which is what Karen asked about.

I don't edit anyone's magazine but that question I think I can answer. Homesteading magazines can only print articles that are submitted to them. I have no doubt that Countryside, Backwoods Home, Mother Earth News and any of the others would print an article by a black, Asian, or any other minority author if it was worth while but they can't print what they do not receive.

At the same time, who is to say that they haven't been printing articles by these folks? Not every article has a picture of the author or their family in it. Mentioning ethnicity would be out of place in an article that such a mention would have no bearing on.

......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), March 06, 2002.

Amen!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 06, 2002.

Why would a person of ethnic origin go out of their way to write an article for a magazine that seems to dominated by and focused towards whites? Personally, I would welcome articles about such people. I think it would quite wise for the people at C-Side to actively search for a few people of other background who are maiking a success of homesteading and write up a few artciles on them. It'd broaden the range of potential subscribers. Besides Booker T Whatley, ( you could write some VERY exciting articles about his ideas), articles could also be written about historical figures such as George Washington Carver. Or, the next time someone takes a visit to another country, why not write about how farming and homesteading is doen there, much as Ken did with Croatia. Dairy Goat Journal and United Caprine news are always having articles about goat keeping in Russia, France, Taiwan, etc.

I saw an article in another magazine once, about a Japanese family in California. They had an extremely successful market garden operation, focusing on top quality. It was a very inspiring article, I still think abut it a lot. There is a lady, I think she has the 'Goodwoods' herd, who has done much for the dairy goat industry. She is working with Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats. Why not write up an article about her, and include pictures!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 06, 2002.

For those that were wondering why countryside didn't feature articles by other ethnic origins the last couple of Countryside issues have featured articles by Habeeb Salloum a Canadian homesteader of mid- east descent, I loved the articles because they dealt with foods I didn't grow up with. As for others who can tell? That is the great equalizer of the printed word.

-- Terri in NS (terri@tallships.ca), March 06, 2002.

I think that Karens statement offends people to the point in which she stated it. Maybe the more appropriate way to put it would have been," and I am being politically correct" but political correctness can go to far if you ask me. Anyway,,, maybe asking, I was wandering if there were any minorities interested in or seeking a homesteading lifestyle. It all depends on individual wants, desires, and needs. It has nothing to do with race, creed, color, religion, or national origin. You could say the same thing about professional sports, why are blacks more prominent in football, baseball, and basketball,and as far as I know only whites play hockey!! Lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill, this is a free country, anybody can do whatever/be whatever they want to, some people prefer to live in the sticks, others would rather make millions in sports and endorcements. Me,,, I am 45, I've had alot and lost alot, and I still don't know what the hell I want to be when I grow up!!!!!

-- Stephen Coffman (marine3@alltel.net), March 06, 2002.

In the Crayola box (I only own the 64 color version, but the sharpener still works...watch out!), I am flesh colored. I always wanted to be burnt sienna, though. (How thoughtful of Crayola to consider flesh color to be that kind of sickly greyish-pink. Kind of mortuary putty color, I guess). Pro athletes seem to like those "flesh" colored band-aids, too, no matter what skin tone or ethnicity they may be...

I always did wonder why violet-blue and blue-violet were so different. Anyone else?

I am curious why homesteading attacks so many white folks, too. Interesting question.

-- Coloratura (hueish@lurking.com), March 06, 2002.

half red here

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), March 08, 2002.

I have also wondered about this question. My ex wife was 1/4 blackfoot, I, who have always considered myself of german origin, know I had a Cherokee gggggrandmother. My step sister has Cherokee on both sides of her tree and since my ancestors owned slaves there is probably some black in there as well. I am an American.

-- Rog (rw285@isoc.net), March 09, 2002.

I do believe that was a very good point about looking into your roots, to see why you have an urge to homestead. My roots are in the Alps of Switzerland, tending cows and goats on the high slopes, making cheese, etc. My ancestors fled to america for religious freedom in the 1700's. Guess that explains a lot, doesnt it?

But as far as what race I concider myself, I refuse to fill out that "race" box on any legal forms. If black is a race, then I'm speckled. If "African-American" is a race, then I am "European- American," for pity's sake. And those options arent listed.

I think the whole issue of racism is being fueled by those who like to think they are helping, by majoring on the issue. I grew up in southern Virginia, alongside the blacks, and I really like them. The most racist people I know are people who carry a chip on their shoulder, refusing to let the past be in the past, wanting to hold all whites accountable for everything their ancestors have done to their race. That is totally unrealistic and asking for further perpetuation of the "underdog" mentality.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), March 09, 2002.

I used to say I didn't see color. I do. I hope that any of my friends that are non-white know I see it and I love them for it. Your heritage is part of who you are and for me to say I do not see the "Color" of my friends is for me to say I do not see my friends for who they are. I am proud of being gay just as I pray they are proud of being black brown yellow red tan and any other color they choose to describe themselves as. Diversity is what makes us all so wonderful.

-- Laura (lauramleek@yahoo.com), March 09, 2002.

Thanks, Laura, for being honest to speak up for yourself. I'm not looking to foment more arguments but want to get in one more shot before this goes into the archives. Several of my friends read between the lines and knew me enough to ask exactly why I mentioned certain events in my first post. A "negro" community vanished into the surrounding Norwegian community in Wisconsin. Some were probably already quadroons by the time the civil war ended and those freed slaves came to Wisconsin to start a new live as homesteaders. As more and more genealogy information is made available, and lineage becomes easier to find, it's surprising how many old families suddenly have to bite their lips know that the dusky appearance of a great grandmother in an old photo was not due to working in the family garden. The old gentleman who died in Beetown at age 90 had a mother who shared the same name as my great great grandfather. The patriarch of this family in America came over from Norway in 1866 after being a soldier in the Denmark-German war of 1848 over control of the Schleswig-Holstein area. Hard to find a wife to help on the homestead when he was 42. Records now show that his wife was probably a quadroon or maybe an octaroon. That makes me at least a sixty-fourth and no name for that mix. So we shall answer Diane's question which was "How many homesteaders out there are non-white?" None according to the responses. Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans and one old Norwegian discovering more and more how proud he is of his ancestors for procreating and allowing him to be here. As Paul Harvey would say, now you know the rest of the story!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 10, 2002.

Excuse me Martin.........but I didn't ask the question......just for the record.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 10, 2002.

Sorry, Diane, it was Karen. Had so damned many notes in front of me that my bi-focals fell on the wrong line. Murphy's Law!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 10, 2002.

Well , I'm White , He's Black and we really are working hard to get out there, somewhere. We've managed to save up almost 20,000 and hope to go in with some others to make a place or add to one.

There is some fear of how one would be received, as it's one thing to face the expected challenges of homesteading itself , but another to be accepted or to potentially worry about ones safety beyond the challenge of being there in the first place. anoter

-- Ian A. Storms (drclue@drclue.net), March 10, 2002.

I loved the Crayon post. The little girl I watch that is 1/2 black 1/2 white certainly doesn't match the color "flesh" in the box when we color. She certainly won't be able to wear "nude" nylons. Bandaids do come clear, though she much prefers Barney :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 10, 2002.

Out of all the postings,this question has received the most responses! Does that TELL anybody anything?? I am sick of the whole thing!! Every time the word "race" is mentioned, people of ALL ORIGINS take offense!! Why is everybody this american or that american, and everyone else is just white!!! I come from a number of different, ORIGINS of which I am fascinated by how I came to be and How did I get here, I don't blame others for any atrocities that has befallen my ancestors at the hands of another, nor do I blame others for any of my own misfortunes. But I do know this, I will get everything I want out of life or I will die trying, and if the latter happens, then I consider my life fullfilled, Because I "DID DIE TRYING" What does that make me? An American,, nothing more and certainly, nothing less!!

-- Stephen Coffman (marine3@alltel.net), March 11, 2002.

in some ways I feel lucky to have no idea what my origin is.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.