Hi, My LaMancha doe has had Mastitis now for about a week (according to the Dr. Naylors Indicators) today. I've been giving her a one 6cc shot of Liqumycin LA200 daily in alternating back legs(1st day was right rear then left rear then right rear, ect.) according to the fiasco farms website (www.fiacofarms.com) last Sunday morning she woke up limping( her front legs, I believe) yesterday I cleaned and trimed her hooves (which needed terribly done because the previous owner left them to grow). Today she's still the same still limping she's still eating and her stool is normal. She is from a reputable breeder here in Minnesota (Terrapin Acres) so I doubt it would be CAE but you never know, The person they sold her to and stayed with them for 5 years was relible until their son graduted about 6 months before I got her. She still has Mastitis but after 4 days of medicating I waited one day and gave a shot the next day and yesterday and today I didn't give her shot because of her limping. Note: She is Limping NOT kneeling. Thank You all soooooomuchh!

-- Chandler Wible (Providencefarms2001@yahoo.com), February 12, 2002

Answers

Chandler, you would not believe how many reputable breeders own CAE+ goats, and how many of those will sell animals as negative that are not. Unless you saw the test results with your own eyes, you should have her tested.

She is limping- where is the pain originating from? Start at one end of the leg and feel it gently, watching for her to flinch, until you find the sore spot. It could be something embedded in the hoof, or it could be that she needed her feet trimmed- it can take a few days before they feel comfortable with trimmed feet if they've been neglected for a while. Have you changed her diet at all lately? More grain, richer hay, anything like that?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 12, 2002.

If she didn't start limping until after the injection of LA 200 I'd think she is sore from the injection. I had to give the LA 200 to my goats after bringing in a buck that spread a cold to all my does.I had a few does that their legs were so stiff,they couldn't sit for 2 days.I had to lift them up with the help of someone to help them lay down.They were sore for a week. I will no longer use LA 200,it gave the does symtoms that were worse then their colds.I don't anything know about Mastitis, try to find someone who knows if there's something different to treat her with.

-- SM Steve (notreal mail@msn.com), February 13, 2002.

Look in the archives for mastitis threads .Also go up to luscent and scroll down there is a dairy goat forum .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

Okay, i am the radical here. i think antibiotics are wicked, unless it is for drastic lifesaving measures. you can cure mastitis without antibiotics. one of my human clients was convinced by her back up to take antibiotics for a bladder infection and ended up with HIDEOUS kidney pain. she almost went to a specialist, until i convinced her to take the homeopathic antidote. it worked MIRACLES, literally.

so, if it didn't start until she took the antibiotic, i would say the antibiotic caused it. if you have any interest in a homeopathic antidote for it, let me know in an off-board email and I will write all the details out for you. i don't want to do it here if you aren't really interested.... good luck! if you have given her antibiotics, you will really need to build her immune system back up, as they wipe out all the good bacteria with the bad!

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), February 13, 2002.

Chandler, all over the counter antibiotics can and should be given under the skin. How do you know she has mastitis? Hot udder? Nasty milk? Blood or tissue in the milk? Does she have a fever? Cold udder. If you do not have one of the above, or more than one than you do not have mastitis! There isn't a place on the internet that tells anyone to use Dr. Naylors Cards. They are worthless. CMTtests are fine. You are guessing using tetracycline that this is the drug that will treat the kind of mastitis your doe has. Very few drugs go through the body and into the mammary gland. Have you went to saanendoah.com and looked up what dosage to use? Joyce's site very clearly states, along with Goat Medicine that all over the counter antibiotics should be given under the skin. LA200 stings, every goat owner should use Biomycin or any other tetracycline that comes in 200 mg, they are all the same and have none sting carriers. Have you read the archives here? Every mastitis post states to put a sample of the milk in the fridge before you start to treat, so you can send it in if you choose the wrong antibiotic. You should be infusing the udder along with systemic antibiotics along with frequent milking, if she has masitis. Did you call the breeder and ask for help when you suspected you had a problem? A doe with CAE does not start limping, CAE in the arthritic form starts with swollen knees but no pain or blood in the fluid around the knee. Her feet are overgrown because you have not trimmed her feet while you were waiting for her to kid all these weeks! Worm the doe, keep her feet trimmed, she will stop limping when the medication is absorbed into her body, or if you inserted the needle in her siactic nerve, it will take time to heal, right now the med is sitting in leg muscles which are necrosing from strong meds in them, if you are lucky she is still eating and drinking and won't founder on you also. Learn the correct technique for giving shots, and always look up on saanendoah.com the drug before you use it. This is the reason why antibiotics get such a bad name. You now have used an antibitotic at probably the wrong dose, the wrong route and now you have stopped giving it before its course is up. The next time you try to use tetracycline when you really need it the bacteria in your goat may have resistance to it. Always ask for help if you aren't sure, before you do anything, we can't fix anything now, because we don't know what is happening. Goatworld.com has an excellent 911 site, but it also sounds as if you have a major herd in your own state you could ask advice of! I am sorry if I am harsh, but I can only give the same information over and over for so many times! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.

Vicki, you, of all people should know that Almost all shots that are to be given SubQ can also be given successfully IM or even IV. And to quote from "Veterinary Guide for Animal Owners" "Many veterinarians no longer use intra-mammary infusion (mastitis tubes), as there is a great risk of introducing other bacteria into an already-stressed udder. You can't sterilize skin, and 99 percent of the tube tips that enter the teat are not sterile, even if you dab them with alcohol. Systematic treatment is better because it goes to work in the body all through the tissues, not just in the surface of the interior of the udder. Remember, the inside of the udder looks like a sponge, not an open, hollow ball full of milk. Getting an antibiotic forced through the teat and massaged into all those little pockets where there is active infection is darned near impossible." ( Rodale Press, second edition, 1998). Now, Vicki don't get me wrong I respect you for what you know and your experience, but I won't harm the health of my doe using mammary infusions.

-- Chandler in Minnesota (Providencefarms2001@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.

So Chandler, you use an injection technique IM that is much harder on the doe? You were the one talking about you laming the doe, it was from faulty technique, so give the shots subq! Antibiotics cause the muscle to necrose in a doe, you give one shot on Friday in one rear leg, Saturday in the other rear leg, you have her lame, so what muscle you going to pick next? How about the neck? Subq gives you the freedom to choose all over the body, no two shots in the same spot, and it absorbs much better, slower, which keeps her blood levels of the drug up. Yes Chandler, you use your all stock vet text on your goat, was it there you got the information to use LA200 for mastitis? Anyone who has had goats for any length of times knows that vets and generic vet books are not going to give you worthwhile information, unless your vet has continued their education. This is why you are on this board, because you need answers after following what this book says and IT IS NOT WORKING! Not only do most dairy folks use masitits infusions during mastitis treatment but most use dry cow treatments at drying. Of course you do it cleanly, and you do not insert the tip of the applicator! Like I said in the last post, most antibiotics do not even get into the mammary tissue, so yes it is important to do both routes, course it would be nice if you knew you had mastitis, or what the bacteria was. I would think you would want the best information, to save the does udder. Now Chandler, dont get me wrong.....................................Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 15, 2002.

Chandler quit while you are ahead.Vets and vet guides are a great start , but hold nothing to a well educated herd owner with years of experience.I'm sure you did what you thought was best , we all do .But please read over the archives well and print it out , go to saanendoea {sp i know , it's early !}and readthere site well , print out also.In my option {and I'm sure many others} Vicki will beat the pants off of any vet any day .I have never seen her steer anyone wrong in over 3 years .Good luck with your doe.~ Patty

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), February 15, 2002.

She has chunks in her milk , Vicki. Today I talked to a dairy cow raiser and she uses them all the time, Your right I'm wrong. How do you give a doe a Mammary infusion

-- Chandler (ProvidenceFarms2001@yahoo.com), February 16, 2002.

The tube will have directions on it .Clean the udder very well and good luck.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), February 16, 2002.