An Amish-like church is forming in Florida. We are in agreement with the entire Dordrecht Confession of Faith, 1632. We will have the lifestyle and beliefs of the Old Order Amish, but with the following distinctives:

Services are in English Buggies will be any plain style available Debt-free lifestyle Husbands and fathers work at home Homeschooling is the norm Previously divorced and remarried couples will be considered Hands-off courtship is practiced

We have a concern for the environment, our relationships with others, and being a good witness. If you have ever dreamed of moving to the country, building a log cabin back in the woods, growing an organic garden, raising livestock, simplifying your life, working out of your home, and spending more quality time with your family, while being in fellowship with other Christians, we encourage you to prayerfully consider learning more about our group.

For a copy of our statement of faith, and a list of our church rules (Ordnung), please send an SASE to:

Amish PO Box 51 Bonifay, FL 32425-0051

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 07, 2002

Answers

Do you have to be religious with your physical appearance or can you get by with your mind?

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), February 07, 2002.

What does " previously divorced or remarried couples will be considered hands-off " mean???

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), February 07, 2002.

I believe they ment to put a period between considered and Hands-off. Terry

-- Terry Lipe (elipe@fidnet.com), February 08, 2002.

Anne if I am correct you posted a while back about this correct ?Glad to see you are moving forward .How many acres ? What part of Florida.I know of an Amish couple who left the church near me and last I knew he was going to bible school {correct term ?} down in Florida.I wish you success and keep us posted.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

I'm sorry but the formatting didn't post properly. Please assume a period before each capitalized word in the second paragraph. It was supposed to post as a list.

We have not exactly posted about this before. We were planning to join a community in Missouri. It appears that there is a need for a more "seeker friendly" community, however. We hope to fill that need.

All members would be require to follow the rules for attire.

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

So is this an Amish-like community that uses both buggies and computers?

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

No, computers will not be permitted. We are simply making use of one until we get rid of electricity, which we anticipate to be very soon now. We are still working on a couple of things, like pumping water without electricity, and heating water so that we have pressurized hot water.

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm thick headed and can't understand this. I live in the country, I have a great place, (several acres), I grow an organic garden, I raise my own livestock, My life is symplified, I work out of my home,I spend quality time with my family, I have wonderful neighbors and I didn't have to join a group to do all of this. I can plant what I want, when I want, I can drive a buggy to town OR the pick-up. (I don't have to follow rules for attire). I am free! I think a lot of people on this forum live as I do, we make our own way. I am having a hard time seeing the benefits of your community. Thanks for the help!

-- cowgirlone in OK (Cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

That's fine, Cowgirl. I suppose it's not for everyone. But some Christians feel a desire to be interdependent, rather than independent. We recognize that we are God-reliant, rather than self- reliant. And we feel the bible commands us to gather together with those of like mind. If you don't agree, that's fine.

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

Anne, obviously you have ran into the "fence". I wish you well in your new venture. My prayers for you would be that you do not follow the path of those who have gone before you and make your lifestyle your religion and take your eyes off the Savior and put them on the world. Plain is fine and IMHO very Biblical but what usually happens is that, when rules are made by man regarding just what plain and simple means, that God gets lost in the process.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

cowgirlone, it's not about farming. It's about religion. I've been there. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

Thank you Anne for explaining this to me! The Christians in my neck of the woods are interdependent and God-Reliant, (we rely on what God gave us),I guess we just need more "Elbow Room" than some. LOL! Thanks for your help!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

Thank you Diane and Daffodyllady, like I said, I'm thick headed about this and it takes lots of explaining to get through! LOL Thanks for your help!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

And yet this thread is allowed to stay?

Nothing but a cult, rules of man not rules of God. The only praying I will be doing is for your children. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

The Amish are not a cult. There is no central leader in absolute authority. Everyone is free to leave if they choose to do so. I am surprised to see the word "cult" thrown around so freely these days.

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

from "The American Heritage Dictionary"

cult n. 1. A system or community of religious worship and ritual, expecially one focusing, upon a single deity or spirit. 2. a. Obsessive devotion or veneration froa person, principle, or ideal. b. The object of such devotion. 3. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric interest. (end of dictionary)

IMO any group that says that you have to dress, or anything else in a certain way to be acceptable is a cult and the very opposite of what Christ taught.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

I'm not here to argue with anyone. :-) You are entitled to your beliefs.

-- Anne Keckler (raymondkeckler@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

Diane...

you beat me to the defination! LOL!

Anne,

why not start now by unplugging your computer! please! and forget about the 'hot pressurized water' heat it up like everyone else does on teh stove! Go outside and turn off your circuit breakers! quick! dig a larger well so you can bucket up the water pulling on a rope! Go do it now! why wait?

-- Lurky Lu (LurkyLu@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

Have lived and have family that lives near the Amish in Lancaster, PA. Up north here have had Amish help us with our buildings. They are very nice people, seem to be honest in a days work and polite. I have asked them many questions about their way of life and most of the replies I have gotten from them on this is "it's not our way"..concerning no electric etc. This family I'm thinking of came from Ohio and had to get the OK from the head of their order before purchasing their family. It was because to see if it was too much for that one family to run and then it would fall on the others in the "community" if they failed. Suppose they meant taxes and the labor. Women don't worry about insurance with having children..the order pays the bills...around here they do go to the local hospital over night for delivery. If a husband dies and leaves a wife and children the order supplies the labor and money until she will remarry or older sons can take over the responsibility of the family. Have difficult time with not protecting our country but some American's don't like the Army either..so guess that's not just the Amish way of thinking. Had a Quaker boyfriend in high school...didn't get drafted either if I remember right. Well anyways...Some of their business ideas are a little two way in my opinion. Can use electric and farm machinery just can't own it. Can use a phone or car just can't own them either. Sort of confusing ?? But...hey this is American and you can do what you want to with your family and religion. Just be very, very sure that you are able to leave with your family and monies if this isn't what you want to do with your life. At least you would have had the experience of it. I guess I couldn't have someone tell me what to do and what not to do at times..too independent I guess. Wish you well !!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), February 08, 2002.

To add to the above excellent advice, concerning making sure you will be able to leave with your family and money... I would recommend that since you are in on the beginnings of this, you should be able to help write the bylaws. Be sure that you preserve your children's freedom of choice. The amish practice of shunning those who leave after taking their vows, is extremely CRUEL to all concerned. Aged parents who see their grown children opt out, have to treat them as sinners on their way to HELL. My husband has a lot of emotional scars from his parents being shunned for leaving the Amish. Be careful what you may be doing to your children and grandchildren's freedom of choice.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

In some ways we should all learn from Amish and like groups .Gosh imagine how horrible to take care of the sick and elderly and not just throw them away .How about all that time spent with you family , yuck! And to help your neighbor , how awfull !!No I don't agree with all they do but geesh guys if you don't like it leave it alone.I'm sure we all have some things we do that some would not agree with .If this is what will make a person happy go for it .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

I can't believe how many people have been rude about this. If I were looking for such a community, I would be grateful that the information were being posted in different places. If you don't agree with it, then DON'T bother reading or arguing! It solves nothing. Some people can't lose weight on their own, and join places like Weight Watchers, or TOPS, and are successful. Others find that restrictive and can do it just fine on their own. We are all different, and I always thought that was what made America great? That we could freely, be different. So you chose your attire. I bet each one of you has your own uniform! Be it jeans/shirt/boots or jumper/blouse/tennis shoes. Just becuase you picked it yourself, that makes the difference, huh? Some people just chose to be different, together......

-- Missy (jc4me14@juno.com), February 08, 2002.

Anne, I pray for the best to you and your community. Something alot of people are lacking is community and working together. Not talking of other countrysiders! Fellowship in the word with likeminded believers is so important. Blessings....

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), February 08, 2002.

Anne, my family will also remember you and new community in prayer. I too can't believe how rude people have been to you and what an issue is being made of something they just don't understand. Can't figure out why people feel so threatened.

There is a differance between not understanding someone's choice of a way of lifestyle and being down right rude and nasty about it. I think we often forget how "wierd" we homesteaders are to the rest of the world. It just depends on where your prospective is.

By the way, the amish lifestyle IS biblical. Again, depends on where your view point is and how literal you interpret it. Actually, there is so much to the Amish way of life that is right on the mark and much to admire about the amish way of life...it is just that most of the rest of the Christians just can't separate themselves from the things the world has to offer to put it in practice. It takes a lot of courage and faith to go the path Anne has choosen and should be complimented...right or wrong...for following her beliefs to the limits!

-- Karen (mountains_mama@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them." Mother Teresa

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), February 09, 2002.

Other than Patty, I don't think those of you who thought some of the answers were rude, have much of an idea about the previous discussion of this issue. I have many dear friends who are Amish and am Mennonite myself. Anne clearly speaks of the difficulty with the Amish in her post here..... "We were planning to join a community in Missouri. It appears that there is a need for a more "seeker friendly" community, however."

If anything was RUDE here it was posting something like this that clearly violated the rules of this forum (Not that I particularly AGREE with these rules, but they are rules none-the-less).

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 09, 2002.

I have MANY friends who are Amish in many different states. I am quite aware of the problems that some communites have, and have read the discussions of the past. Don't assume that because we sympathize with a poster that we are ignorant. Problems are one reason why new ones form, (apart from land prices). I believe the discussion is allowed to continue because is has to do with living in the country. The point has certainly been made that someone (who is a Christian) does not have to join a group like this in order to live without electricity and cars. This forum has a capable monderator. Don't blame a poster if the moderator choses to allow a discussion to continue.

-- Missy (jc4me14@juno.com), February 09, 2002.

Diane and Vicky: I don't see how the rules of the forum were violated. Ken may correct me on this but I don't think the issue has ever been "absolutely NO religious or spiritual references whatsoever" in the posts.

What precipitated the "rules" to begin with, as you no doubt remember, was the use(abuse) of the forum for witnessing and prostheltyzing and the en masse attacks on those who didn't agree with that particular theological take on things. Even a casual reference to a spiritual approach that was different from that "approved" of by a particular set of people would bring them out in "force" to set the "heathens" straight.

As far as I'm concerned this thread is pretty benign and shouldn't get anyone upset.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), February 09, 2002.

Well now I am assuming ignorance. Yikes..........I think I am ignorant and confused. One think I am capable of is admitting publicly when I am wrong, confused or just plain ignorant. I see one thread being deleted and another one just like it allowed to stand. You go for it Anne, I think you know I only wish you the best in your "seeking".

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 09, 2002.

First, if it was a Catholic nun or a hippy or a Native American or a pragmatic agnostic calling others to come together into a community with rules, no one would argue with them.

Why do small religious groups get disrespect so often? Is such a community much different than the Discalced Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus with their uniforms and straw mattresses and vows of poverty and hail marys every day before a statue? Or the Native Americans and their sacred insignia and rituals before the four winds? Are we forgetting diversity makes us great?

This is a community forum. It's similar to a small town cafe. Would you get in an argument right out in public about the Amish lifestyle with someone quietly posting a message on the bulletin board of a small town cafe?

I respect those who want to discuss religion. Well, how about emailing Anne privately? Wouldn't that be more in a spirit of community and goodwill like we try to create as homesteaders?

Peace.

-- Cathy G (blackpearls@wtvhmail.com), February 10, 2002.

There is an interesting web-site about a Band called the Electric Amish...Three men,three beards,and no power. It tells how they all went through a Mennonite stage before they all met up. Seems to me we ALL go through one stage or another...Some get wild and crazy...others go the other way into some form of ultra-conservatism. Either way can be extreme...Here-in lies my warning...Extremism!!!

-- D. Kessler (kandkprod@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.