Both have died.

They made it a day and a half in the house. Yesterday they even almost stood up on their own. One was dead this morning and the other was gone a few hours later.

An interesting point was that neither of them had their hooves fully developed. It was suggested that since the mama was still with the other goats, maybe she got butted hard and that led to a pre-mature birth. Could the selenium factor have anything to do with it?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 01, 2002

Answers

Paul, I'm sorry about your goats. Selenium is a big deal where we live, it is a life and death matter sometimes. If you have a problem like this again, let me know. I have a bottle of BO-SE and would have been happy to give you some for the kids. Do you have any more due to kid sooon?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 01, 2002.

We have two more does that are due in the next month.

We're buying some selenium injection stuff today.

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 01, 2002.

Also sorry about the loss. For future reference only, I took the advice to put a baby monitor in my barn this year as kidding time approached, and was able to hear when the does were kidding. When the temps are extreme, it sure is a big help to know when you need to hustle out there to assist. (One of mine kidded at 3 am when it was freezing or just below out, another kidded on a 20 degree or so afternoon, but being a first timer, did nothing at all for the kids, so it was lucky we heard.)

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), February 01, 2002.

Paul, sorry about your kids. I would not give SE injections unless SE is the problem as it can be toxic in too high amounts. Instead, you could get your does a mineral mix which contains SE that they can eat free choice. I would check with your local vet to determine if you are in a SE deficient area. Don't rely on a map. Our area is listed as adaquate on the map, but it is in fact deficient. You could also check with your county extension office. Find a local livestock vet who who will talk to you. If you dont know for sure when your kids are due, I found a formula in a British book on goats years ago that has worked for me. Count ahead of the breeding date 5 months and subtract 1 day. Your does will usually be within 2-3 days either side of that date. Good luck.

-- c j Mn (annaboo@paulbunyan.net), February 01, 2002.

From past postings I know you have added sel. in the mineral. Might be time for a blood test! I'd inject the kids at birth but the two you lost were probably premmie. Selenium won't cure that!

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), February 01, 2002.

Paul,

How much did the kids weigh any idea. You might have posted this info before I'm not sure. The kid's hoofs would have been very soft and may have appeared not to be fully formed it almost looks like there is no hoof there. But they harden soon after birth.

Linda

-- Linda (jlsam@ccrtc.com), February 02, 2002.

They weighed four pounds each.

It did look like their hooves were not fully formed.

All of our animals have been given selenium now.

The mom of these two is a goat we call "Sally". She didn't look nearly as pregnant as "Mercy" and "Fireball".

We've moved Mercy and Fireball into the garage where we have set up a heat lamp. Hopefully, this will reduce the butting from the other goats and provide a slightly warmer place.

Since Mercy and Fireball look sooooooo much bigger than Sally, I would like to think that their babies will come out much bigger, stronger, healthier, etc. And there is a good chance that we won't have to be involved.

All of the does we have now we got for free to be used to clear brush. One of the does, we were told, has the "early arthritis" problem. I think it might be Mercy. How much would it cost to have the does tested for this?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), February 02, 2002.

CAE is the "early arthritis" problem usually, though it could also be mycoplasma and also could explain the problems you are having with your kids! Either the encephilitic form of the CAE or the mycoplasma problem could cause the kinds of kids you are having. You can send in blood http://www.dreamhighfarms.com/Kassiesblooddraw1.html the test run 6$ at Pan Amercian in Austin. You can use any lab that runs Elisa tests, no AGID testing, it is old and unreliable. Drawing the blood and one day mailing it, actually with as cold as it is you could 2 day mail, is the expense. So pull the blood yourself, put it in a syringe and tape the top, put in a padded bubble envelope, put the does name and your info on a paper and slip all of it into the two day mailer at the post office, do not tell them that it is blood :) The lab bills you direct and sends you or calls you with the results. Just because this one has symptoms, you should test everyone. If positive you may have some of the story you need, but certainly not all of what is going on. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), February 02, 2002.