Hello everyone, My name is Jennifer and I have asked you guys a few questions already. I am trying so hard to get things going for us but it is not easy. My husband wants that life but is scared of it at the same time. He said he is willing to go there but needs a few years to get ready to do it. He is willing to let us move to a rented homestead in a year when our lease is up but he wants to know why now. I suck at debating. I couldn't argue my way out of a paper sack. I know how I feel. I feel that children raised in the country have more benefits than children in the city. I am already doing little things here in the city such as homeschooling. If anyone can help me by sending me good reasons why it would be better for our two small daughters ages 6 and 1 1/2 to move to the country in 1 year instead of 5. Please

Jennifer

-- Jennifer (jenniferthf@aol.com), February 01, 2002

Answers

First of all don't put yourself down!!!!! Homeschooling is certainly NO SMALL THING!!!!

Trees, fresh air, animals, less likely to be hit by a car, can have pets, can run and play and shout and be joyous, it really is easier to know who their freinds are and their freinds parents etc, less likely to be stolen in your own front yard, life..............

-- Novina in ND (homespun@stellarnet.com), February 01, 2002.

Novina makes all the good points I was going to make. On a deeper level though, kids who live in the country seem to have more responsibility (taking care of the animals, gardening, etc) and develop a wonderful work ethic.

At six years old, my DD had taken over feeding the dogs and cats, both inside and out. Now that she's 12, that's expanded to her own animals and she's feeding the cats, rabbits, chickens & horses. At 3 years old, we started our son on simple chores like making his bed and feeding the dogs. He also helped plant the garden last year. Most teenagers out where I live have already taken jobs on a neighboring farm by the time they are 14. My DD at 9 years old, helped our neighbor twice a day by bottle feeding their calves.

Its experiences like this that will last a child a lifetime.

-- Lisa in WI (llehman16nospam@hotmail.com), February 01, 2002.

I would have to add that country life teaches children self- government. I don't have bored kids. After the chores and school is done, then they have free time. Now--how much free time depends on how long it took them to do the stuff that needs to be done everyday. So they learn how to regulate their time, prioritize, and do good work...ta da... self-government. I do have to add that they don't learn this overnight! Our goal is to raise people that don't have to wait around to be told what to do, or need to have artifical entertainment to keep them happy.

-- Lynelle So.westernVA (x2ldp@aol.com), February 01, 2002.

I don't have children and don't plan to but the other day my husband and I were walking around our timber - "playing" as we call it - and I said to him we should have kids just to give them the opportunity to grow up where we live. I can't imagine the fun times kids would have playing in the woods, splashing in the pond, running in the pastures and having all kinds of critters to play with. I was raised in town so I missed out. Anyway, he said, "I have a better idea - let's us grow up here!" :)

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), February 01, 2002.

Jennifer, Dont fool yourself that kids raised in the country are going to be better off than city kids. This is not true. WHat the parents do is going to be far more important. Most of the trappings of city problems are in the country as well. Some problems even get overlook in the coutry due to the good ole boy and everone knows everyone attitude people have.

The parents will be more of a determining factor in the kids action than where they live. I do find that in my move to the country that being further away from everything helps. I can control my enviornment a little more. I am not tempted to run to a mall or whereever to kill some time, I spend more time at home. I am more likey to eat dinner with the family instead of grabing a burger around the corner. You get to know the people in your area, church, schools and social orgaizations are different in the country than city. Sports for my kid is very different in the country than city. Its the kids, the game and then winning. City seem to be winning, game, coach then kid.

I think a people (kids as well) become more independent in the country. They can think, act and be on their own without needing something to keep them occupied. It was to easy just to call a plumber when in the city. There were dozen to choose from with a few minutes of respond time. Now there 1 maybe 2 available and they dont have 24hr servivce.

I say make the move, overall parents active in their childs life will do better in the country than in the city. However non-interactive parents are not any better of in the country than the city.

-- Gary in Ohio (gws@columbus.rr.com), February 01, 2002.

No concrete and all the negatives associated with it.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

• Better friends for your children. More home-schooolers in the country.
• Actual productive work. I know that for me, I couldn't see a lot of meaning in washing the dishes over and over again. Even with mowing the lawn, will the world fall apart if it doesn't get done? Chores in the couintry are an entirely different matter. If you don't cut, split and stack firewood, you're cold until you get up and do something about it. If you don't feed or milk the animals, they will suffer and die, or get sick. If you work in the garden, you get the benefits of your work- a ripe strawberry, green beans, tomatoes. There is more reward and pleasure in work in the country, not just a flimsy dollar bill.
• Less drugs- notice I did not say no drugs.
• Less temptations in general!
• Health. Less colds, more fresh air, less pollution.
• When you live in the country you can send your children outside when you get tired of them. The don't have to stay all cooped up in the house of be walked to a park, or be confined in a little yard that they know every inch of.
• I asked my son what he thought was better. He says it's not noisy, and that you can't have goats in a city. :)
  
  -- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 01, 2002.

...Plus you get to run around the front yard naked! That'll sell him!

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), February 01, 2002.

oh my goodness, chuck, not if you have kids... that'll get you reported to the social services in no time flat.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

I've lived it the city and now in the country.I've been a 4H leader and through that have seen differences.The country kids seem to have more tolerance and compassion for the kids that don't do as well,or need help.They welcome and include less able kids.There seems to be a nurturing nature.Maybe because they see what it takes to raise an animal,to take care of its needs.They also learn that when you do eveything right you can stil loose something you love. Guess that's where their compassion comes from.I don't know if they have the time to learn that in the city.The kind of trouble my kids got into is nothing compared to my friends kids in the city.My daughter had a fondness for riding anything big enough to carry her.If I would tell her don't get on a particular horse cause it's not broke yet,well she would go out back and mess with it til she could jump on it's back.They always let her without hurting her(some were really rank!). Now she trains horses for a living and helps at risk youth at a christian boys home.My son is into his guitar and can play as loud as he likes without disturbing anyone!There's freedom in the country.

-- Cheri (cmv@netnitco.net), February 01, 2002.

I too have lived in both city and country, and if all you can afford is the "inner city" you are probably better off in the country. If you can afford the suburbs, or the upscale part of the city, I would say the country is different, not necessarily better. Parental involvement is important, and imho, MORE important, than where you live.

I do not agree that there is less crime in the country--you seem to have just as many candidates for the Darwin Awards (people building pipe bombs in their back yards, that sort of thing) in the country as you do in the city. As to whether drugs or alcohol is worse, ask someone who's lost a family member to a drunk driver. Alcohol seems to be a more prevalent problem in the country (I don't know how much illegal stills contribute to that).

Pollution (air and other types) is debatable. I have seen postings on this forum where people have stated they burn diapers, and I even know people who burn styrofoam! Talk about noxious fumes. Also, there are people who think nothing of burying trash or dumping oil, gas and other chemicals on their (and others') property without batting an eyelash because "they're in the country".

Having regular responsibilities (chores) of some sort, are important, whether or not they involve animals. I know a lot of people who live in the country so they can have a big giant yard, animals (other than maybe a cat or dog) are the furthest thing from their minds.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 01, 2002.

What do the kids think? I have not seen anyone post their kids opinion of country life. My now 12 and 10 year old boys have been in the country now for 3 years. There is hardly a week goes by that one of them does not comment on how wonderful country life is! They cannot imagine ever going back to the city, even though they have more chores, and most of their friends are still in town. They hike, yell, build forts, have animals, hunt, and just generally be BOYS. We hope we never have to return to the city!

-- Glynn Pennington (glynnpennington@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

I hit submit before I finished, sorry.

I think you have just as many problems with sports (coach favoritism, and so forth) in the country as you do in the city just due to the nature of team sports (I think team punishment does NOT contribute to group or individual morale, for example). Also, you notice how much TV coverage is given to local sports only because there is no pro team in the area to cover?

I guess what I am trying to say is that one is not necessarily and absolutely better than the other. You actually may raise children who will grow up and leave to live in the city (wouldn't be the first time that's happened, lol), and hopefully you can accept their decision to do so. I think it is actually important to expose children to the best (and some of the worst, so they have something to compare it to) of many environments. Maybe you have relatives they can live with in the city for a year, for example.

Part of the problem in convincing your husband may lie in the fact that he is the breadwinner, not you. If the situation were reversed, and YOU were the one able to make as much money or more living in the country, I'd bet that he would come around pretty fast to your way of thinking, just for financial reasons. It is very nice to want to live in the country, but if he is looking at maybe a 1, 2, or 3 hour one way commute (I know people who have done this) it gets old really fast (and makes for extremely grouchy spouses), and you can find that you aren't saving money at all, but actually losing it. Nice to have that place in the country, but if you aren't there to enjoy it.... Just a few other items to plug into the equation.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 01, 2002.

i wish we could have gotten them out here sooner! they were 6 and 9 when we moved here, and are now 9 and 11.

one big reason to move out: THEY CAN RUN AROUND NAKED WHENEVER THEY WANT! No, but really, they do sometimes run around in the sprinkler out back.

beside developing responsibility, they seem to have gotten BRAVER. my kids were sleeping out under the stars without a tent last summer by themselves. they take walks in the woods alone, and have a connection with nature they never did in the city. their homeschool ed. is fabulous! the things they have learned about animals, gardening, and the stars, all self-directed by what they SEE around them.

they are never bored, have a great time, and love it out here. my daughter hates the extra bugs, and sometimes wishes she could "wander town", but we let her do that with friends when we run in to do errands. plus her best friend just moved to the country, and her other two really good friends are country kids as well.....

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), February 01, 2002.

I had to make another comment from my daughter's prospective. We've been living in the country for as long as she can remember, but she does have vague memories of living in an apartment in the city. Every time we go into a city now, she comments on how the houses have no yard!

Awhile back her third cousin invited her to spend the weekend at their house and they could go to the mall, etc. My daughter said to me, "Why would I want to walk around a mall all day?"! LOL! I loved that!

-- Lisa in WI (llehman16nospam@hotmail.com), February 01, 2002.

Oh Lisa, you didn't tell me that one! I'm Lisa's mother and I found her a husband out here. I've watched her daughter and son flourish out here in the country! I'd like to grab my other two grandchildren who live in a city and get them out here.

The children who grow up in the country have a whole different attitude than kids in the city. I've sat and watched those children in he city and it's pathetic how badly they behave. They are rude to adults...even their own parents! In public schools, they learn nothing positive that I can see.

If yo can, get your husband to read these posts. As a grandma, I am hoping his will change his mind and take his family out of the city soon. God bless!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), February 01, 2002.

I think kids that grow up in the country are much more grounded in reality. They learn what reality is, and usually learn it fast. They learn where food comes from and how much work is involved in raising a garden and most times food animals. They learn that things they love sometimes die and there isn't anything that can be done to stop it. They learn about the reality of birth and quickly understand that it sometimes isn't easy. They see that people get out of bed very late at night in all sorts of weather to help a animal in trouble give birth. And they sure understand quickly the sense of satisfaction and happiness involved in giving that needed help. Country kids learn that a short spell of bad weather can make a lot of hard work go down the drain. They learn that it's a good thing to help a neighbor out when needed. They learn they can count on others to help them. They learn the real world isn't at all like a Walt Disney movie. They learn to face up to it when they shirk their responsibilities and can see how they have let others down.

In short, they learn integrity, responsibility, and build character. And country kids don't spend endless hours in front of a TV!

I'm sure there are other things, but these are the first ones that came to mind.

Good Luck!

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), February 01, 2002.

If children are spending hours in front of a TV, that is a parental involvement issue, not an issue of where they live or don't live. Same with schools being good or bad, you can have either one in the city or the country.

Again, it isn't really a good or bad issue, it is just a different way of life issue. Maybe ask your husband for a trial move for 2-3 years?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 01, 2002.

My 2 cents.

Drugs are everywhere-it doesn't matter if you are rich, poor, city or country, but somehow I think this poor soul would have faired better if he

Man eats cocaine, dies

By TERRY CORCORAN THE JOURNAL NEWS (Original publication: Feb. 01, 2002)

A 21-year-old Peekskill man died early Wednesday after he swallowed crack cocaine in an apparent effort to avoid being caught with it when an officer pulled him over, police said yesterday.

Wayne J. Kall of 205 Nelson Ave. died at Hudson Valley Hospital Center in Cortlandt around 6:10 a.m. Wednesday after going into cardiac arrest at the Peekskill Police Department, Detective Sgt. Mark O'Buck said. Police arrested Kall and his passenger, Bruce L. McAllister, 23, of 951 Diven St., on misdemeanor drug charges after finding a small quantity of crack cocaine on each of them, O'Buck said. Police also charged Kall with aggravated unlicensed operation, a misdemeanor, and cited McAllister for violating probation, O'Buck said.

O'Buck said police first booked McAllister, then shortly after 3 a.m., brought Kall to the booking area, where he became ill and began trembling.

Despite Kall's denying taking any drugs or drinking, police called an ambulance around 3:15 a.m. and he was taken to the hospital.

"Shortly after arriving at Hudson Valley, he went into cardiac arrest. The doctors worked on him until 6:10 a.m., when he was pronounced dead," O'Buck said. "We found out from the co-defendant that during the stop when the officers initially pulled him over, he ingested what McAllister described as a sizable quantity of crack cocaine."

Cocaine overstimulates the brain and causes seizures, which can result in breathing problems and muscle contractions, said Dr. Timothy Haydock, director of the Emergency Department at Westchester Medical Center. It makes the heart beat erratically and can constrict blood vessels, which can cause a heart attack, Haydock said.

Kall's family and friends are questioning the police account of the incident. "I felt there were things the police could have done to save my son, but they chose not to," the grieving woman said.

Rosemarie Kall, 40, said her son is no stranger to Peekskill police. She said he may have been selling drugs for a quick profit, but does not believe he was using them. Kall served time in state prison for an October 1999 attempted robbery conviction in Putnam County.

Before that, he spent about a year in the Westchester County jail on an unrelated felony conviction.

Rosemarie Kall remembered her oldest child yesterday for his smile, love of basketball and desire to see his 14-year-old sister, Beatrice, make better decisions than he did.

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), February 01, 2002.

virginia, I Agree. BUT if you live in an area as I, you kind of loose controle. I raised 4 children onless than 1 ac. of land.50 chickins, 6 turkys, 3 pigs, 4 rabbits, 1 goat, and dogs-cats. kids are grown and gone! one has a dog!!!! They live the life as they were not tought to! I feel living in the country would have given me that edge. If you are living in not-country,thats where they will go! This comes from Bill (the sad dad in conn.)

-- william Henry Szall (billisaszall@earthlink.net), February 01, 2002.

Bottom line, it's a whole lot easier to make a move like that when your children are younger. A 6 yr. old will think it's an adventure. An 11 year old will complain about leaving her friends, not being able to ride on her bike (like in the city). Right now their minds are very open to new experiences, but in 5 years, it will be harder on them and on you in return. As a wife, it's up to you to support your hubbies final decission. That is after you have talked it out and each given your reasons for the way you feel. In the end it is the most important that you live life to the fullest where ever you may be on any given day. No matter what the final decision, keep your sence of humor and raise your kids the way you know best. Country or city, good people are good people:}

-- Stacy in Western Michigan (dsparsons@lakeshore.net), February 01, 2002.

I just had to come over here and post that in the country you can play in the dirt and be healty, play with your animals they are the best of friends, pee outside if you aren't going to make it inside in time, and if you have good parents learn that family means more than what 'other people think' about how you look or how you dress etc;etc;etc;

We would play in the creek and every where and get so much dirt on us that we had to be hosed down before we got a bath, and it was that good old OKLAHOMA red clay dirt, (other places have some similar so they can understand that just fine)

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

We lived in NJ before moving out here and my oldest daughter went to K-1 grades up there, in 1st grade there wwer 4 classrooms with about 20 kids in each class. There were 3 elementary schools in the district. My daughter basically knew who was in her class and girl scouts. Down here there are 156 kids in her whole school, she has friends from K-5, in fact last weekend a 5th grader slept at our house. My girl scout troop is K-5 with 26 girls. When I drive down the road I know the people I pass and wave even if I don't know them I wave. What I am trying to say is it is much more personnal here. Now the flip side,

When we lived in NJ we had everything at our feet, the ocean, great adventure, PA, NYC (shows) and that was great hop on a train and you can go to NYC to see a show or concert. The shopping was much better and the food stores has better stuff. And my husband misses really good bread (I am trying).

My kids I think are lucky in the since that we still have family up there so we have to go back and my oldest DD's father is there so she visits there year round so she can do things there and then come home. She does pefer it here and last time she was there she told her dad she doesn't eat store eggs.

Life is really what you make of it there are bad things and people in the country, I stay involved in my kids life both here and there. There is a sence of security here I am not on the road so when my kids are outside I don't worry about cars and people. They get to see more with nature and experience things that sity people have to go to the country to experience. My daughter and I got to milk a cow and it was a thrill for both of us, now we want a milk cow and we can have one.

My kids still get sick that is everywhere. I think if you wait your girls will resent the move because they will get a life outside home. I was 12 and my parents divorced and my mother moved up northern country part of NJ and I hated it and I still hate it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I got a bit of lip from my daughter and she was 7 yrs old that she was gonna miss her friends and she does but she made friends down here. If we had waited any longer she would not want to come. We also had the finanical resources to get here and we have an income from my husbands pension so for us it is easier, we also sold our house in NJ and made a good profit. Everything came together at the right time, I waited 8 years to get here.

-- sonneyacres (jtgt12@ntelos.net), February 02, 2002.

Moving from the city to the country is a change of attitudes along with lifestlye. My wife and I both grew up in inner city neighborhoods with all the drugs and violence and everything else, but from the beginning (birth I think) we were country people at heart. When we lived in the city I kept my gun a lot closer than I do now. For us and our children it was the wisest thing we ever did in getting out of the city. Generally the pace in the country is a little slower and a bit more considerate. There are nut cases, drug dealers,liars and thieves in the country just like in the city. the difference is that in the country you know who they are. Basically it does not matter where you are as much as what you are.What everyone wrote about kids in the country is true as far as ours are concerned. For children it's like living in a park. The big issue is your husbands work. Will you only be moving 20 or 30 miles from where you are now so he can keep the same job, or are you planning a move were he might have to change careers? It is cheaper in some ways to live in the country and in other regards you pay through the nose. Economics is a big issue. You may have noticed a lot of chit chat about cutting costs and saving money, that's because none of us has much. We love our big gardens because it beats the pants off starving. I don't want to sound like the voice of doom. To be honest we love it here and have never been happier in our lives but this is "our" happiness and it may not be somebody elses. It is worthwhile but it can also be a lot of work. Be prepared, no rose colored glasses, if there is one thing the country has in abundance it's reality. Good luck.

-- JJ Grandits (JJGBDF@aol.com), February 04, 2002.

Jennifer, I am an awesome debator, but one thing I've learned is that although you can win the debate, the other person will not do what you want them to do no matter how right you are! It takes seeing the benefits and the ability to see the application in their own lives. The other posters are right who say location does not guarentee outcome. I live on 10 acres in a very rural neighborhood. Our town has a PO/Town Office combo and a mom and pop store, that's it. My kids are never bored, very responsible for their ages(my 10 yr old cooks, cleans, and takes care of 2 younger siblings, 6 horses, 6 chickens, 3 cats, 2 rabbits, and a dog then starts my coffee in the am without me ever asking or implying it was her job-not always, but often enough to make me embarrassed for groaning at getting out of bed:) I noticed she is alot more invloved with family and less stressed than when she was going to public school(I homeschool her now). She never balks at my asking her to clean up after herself if I even have to ask. She exchanged barnwork for riding lessons so far into winter that it was the instructor who had to call a break due to bad weather. She even begged to have her birthday postponed so she wouldn't miss her riding lessen!? My younger ones are following in her footsteps to independence and responsibility. My nephews come and don't want to leave, they love the animals!

I cannot say the same for my neighbors, unfortunately. The teens walk up and down the road vandalizing, robbing, and harrassing. I know a twelve year old who is out at 2 am lurking about the neighborhood. The cops have been by often asking if I saw this or that, the twelve year old had a cop take his BB gun away because he shot at and barely missed his own cousin(though he dented the wagon his cousin was sitting in real good). Teens have been arrested for spotting at night and poaching(I'm talking part of a big ring involving resteraunts and such!). Dirtbikes and tools have been stolen, etc. I notice their parents are drunks or never home. Their country atmosphere only leaves them bored.

I highly doubt your kids would be negatively affected by rural living because you care, but the company they keep when they get older also may not be all you hoped for in a rural setting. If you want your husband to see the benefits of 'country life' you can start real small with pets for the kids and a kitchen herb garden. "Seeing is believing". Also make sure you have neighbors with the same priorities!

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), February 04, 2002.

I raised 3 boys on the farm and they look so much healther than city kids. Their big and strong, and did well in sports. They were never bored, and learned so much more. They could run equipment when they were young, and even work and repair what they used.

-- (rickdavis57@aol.com), February 12, 2002.