Hey Everyone... I hope you dont mind...but I need to ask a question and with so few friends... ( well, except for you guys in here, I'm coming up zero...)... Here is the question... My hubby and I have been married for 7 years...( they seem to get longer each year..LOL)...but no matter how hard we try...we just cant get our lives going...Hubby made good money ( till he lost job he is looking for one now )... we even built a house about 3 years ago...but had to sell it...( Money probs..)... We have about $14,000 in debt and have worked to pay those off over the last couple of years....( Mostly medical bills due to me getting injured..)...SO HOW DO WE GET OUR HOMESTEAD?...I dont want our kids to be teens by the time we get there...and the plan we have now is 6 years till we can pay off all our bills, save the money to pay for land and building house, ect...any help would be appreciated...THANKS FOR LISTENING TO MY COMPLAINT... PS we have had to live with his parents for 5 of the 7 years we have been together and it is getting reallllllyyyyy old....Please be honest with your answers, but remember I am about to go over the deep end here...K

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), January 25, 2002

Answers

Response to ok, here is the problem....

Maybe you could look into renting a homestead with the option to buy. Some old people don't want to give up the life or sell to builders. This will give you the oppoutunity to grow your own food and be frugal.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

Lower your perceptions of reality, pay off the bills now not tomorrow; I survive on $21.00 per day- veterans pension; that includes electric, rent, insurance, groceries, haircuts, phone, laundry, propane, kero for heater, kat phood,; tighten up to survival level, get mean, and do it, period.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

I sure can relate to what you are saying. 28 years ago that was us. 3 little boys, no money and desperate to get out of town. Hubby did have a job but there was never anything left over. In the end we just did it. DH said "if we're goibg to be poor we might as well be poor and happy". We picked up sticks and moved 1200 miles. When we first got here we rented a place for 5 years. Things were cheaper including the rent and with our own animals and garden we actually made out better. Even with hubby earning less we were better off and HAPPY! I'm glad now we rented, we learned a lot those first few years and when we got this place in 1979 we knew exacly what we wanted and needed. Of course, even after all these years we are still working on the place and we still love it. Sometimes you just have to go for it, the worst thing that can happen is that you end up where you started.

-- Judy Schumacher (TootlesTheBrit@aol.com), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

Here is how we did it when we bought our farm in VA> I took my tax refund money and used that to put down on 35 acres and then we bought a used 12 x 50 2 bedroom trailer to live in while we built the house. We lived without electricity for 2 yrs (hubby being bullheaded with building inspector, he dug septic, etc). As Mitch said, ya gotta get tough if you really want this. got to do without necessities. But if you work hard and are frugle they will come soon enough.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

We really got our start years ago when I read an article in the Small Farm Journal. It gave something like 10 steps to get started. One of them was to find an old farm or place with a house and a little land that was empty or abandoned or part of a larger farm... basically we lived in a old place in exchange for helping with the upkeep of the rest of the place. We mowed and kixed fences and kept an eye on the elderly ladies nearby. It was in bad shape. We had to do all of the repairs as we had money. No heat or air conditioning. Used a wood stove that I still have and have moved half way across the country because of the fond memories it gives me. We left it in better shape than we found it. It gave us an opportunity to re-group , get out of debt, and find our own place. That's another story! Now we are back on someone elses' farm. It comes with the job my husband has. It works beautifully but we are planning to again get our own place in a few years. I agree with Mitch. Pare the budget down to the bone. I have taken it a bit far-- I agonize over every purchase almost to the point of obscession. I realized it when my kids began to offer me their money at the check out counters for groceries.....

-- Tana Mc (mcfarm@totelcsi.net), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

Tana, it's funny you should say that about your kids...my 6 year old son offers to buy things for Mommy all the time! I have to admit, though, being tight with money and budgeting and going into stores with a list (and only buying what's on the list) is not only good for my pocketbook, it's good for my kids. They are both much better than I was at their age about saving for the things they really want and not wasting money on stuff they don't need or cheap stuff at the dollar store. Just thought I'd mention one of the side benefits of being constantly broke!!!

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), January 25, 2002.

Response to ok, here is the problem....

The in-laws are horrified at how frugal my kids are. They tried to take my poor babies to a fancy steak house for a nice dinner--- and they REFUSED to order from the menu when they saw the prices!! My oldest son began to tell them how they could go to the grocery store, buy steaks, charcoal,potatos and salads for the whole family for what just two meals cost there. ( Homeschool math combined with Home Ec.!) Grandma was very distressed that I make them use their own money for snack and extras that they buy when we are in town. If one of the kids doesn't have enough, the others pitch in to get his (it is always a male child...) They figure next time it could be them coming up short.

Kristean,

One more money tip is to not spend change. Always put your change in a jar or container each day. It is amazing how fast it adds up. We use this money for special stuff for the family and everybody contributes. We were able to support a child in India thru our church mission ($120), take the cat to the vet for an emegency leg amputation after an unfortunate encounter with a steel trap ( $110 plus some of our savings account), pay for the gas for an old friend to visit us ($55), buy a ram ($100),a Sunday afternoon treat for the whole family at the ice cream parlor ($25-ouch!) and there is still around $65 in the jar. This was all in the last year. Any money found in the dryer, laying on the counter, saved from the vacuum cleaner, ect. goes directly to the jar. If your entire pay check is laying on the coffee table and you are not on the premises, it could wind up in the money jar.

-- Tana Mc (mcfarm@totelcsi.net), January 26, 2002.

Keep tabs on where the money is going. If you buy something write it down. By knowing where your money is going (all of it) you will have a better idea of what you can save or use to pay down/off a bill. If you buy a candy bar, write it down. You would be amazed at how much the little items add up. I also have a change jar. I try to put 25 cents a day into it along with all dime, nickles, and pennies. Compare prices in the store. Using sodas as an example, I have seen 12 packs on sale for $2.50 but if you bought two 6-packs it would be $2.20. I have seen this happen with numerous products.

-- Mike (uyk7@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

Kristean, I certainly agree with mitch, you will be amazed how well you can do on little or no money! Wife and I dropped out, but not in debt, and not broke. Leaving the fat salaries and moving away from it all in the city was scarry, but we were delighted to find out life goes on without nightmares when you just simply go away and start over. I suggest you carefully choose a place you would like to live, do your homework (ie; home, different job prospects, local economy),and just jump right in! GOOD LUCK!!!!!

-- woodsbilly (coleenl@penn.com), January 26, 2002.

Kristean: keep that $14,000 debt in perspective...it's not so bad! You're in pretty good shape if that's your only real debt. I agree with the posts that say to save your change...I'd go further and make it a goal to put a minimum of $2 each day into a "savngs jar". This would not be a rainy day fund, but a savings that you keep for reaching homestead goals. Put more than $2 on some days, if you can. And DON'T touch it. In fact, you might not even let the rest of the family know it's there. They'll be pleased to learn of it someday! Also, make some lifestyle changes, examples: forego all beverages except water. Limit meals out to one a month. Make goodies at home instead of buying prepared snacks. I know these are just little things, but I bet you can save a couple bucks a day!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), January 26, 2002.

You really should invest in some how-to books to learn more about frugal living and to keep you motivated to stay-the-course. Several people on this forum have spoken highly of the 3-volume "Tightwad Gazette" book series. I have the set myself and refer to it regularly. Much success to you in your endeavors...

-- Liz Rhein (merhein@shentel.net), January 26, 2002.

I too, would recommend the change jar idea. It's amazing how fast it adds up! Plus, you'll never miss it- a very easy way to save! To reach my "cabin in the woods dream" I have been selling on ebay. My goal is to make $200.00 a month. It's not a lot when you consider the cost of buying a homestead, but I've got to start somewhere! It is extremely motivating to me to actually see my little pile of money grow (think of Scrooge counting his bills here! LOL) It may seem like "being frugal" gets you nowhere, but it adds up eventually. Someone once told me it's easier to save a $1.00 a thousand times than to save $1,000 dollars. I remind myself of that whenever I question my frugality. Also, and probably most importantly, I would recommend setting goals for yourself. Write them down! And then "act" your way towards them- take baby steps to reach the big ones. I hope this is helpful- I wish you the best of luck! I know it's frustrating not being there yet, especially when you read about so many that are living their dream. I also liked the ideas of the people who simply said "Just Go For It"! :+)

-- briches (vesely@webtv.net), January 26, 2002.

I have been there and it took me 4years to dig out from it. I'm a single person and it was about the same amount. I'm also learning new and better ways to achieve my goals as I expect we all are!!

There is a "Complete Tightwad Gazette" out w/success stories. You can do it. It can be done. I have other places and things to list, but it would take toooo long so, please email me to get those!

-- Katie (4gnaturegirl@chibardun.net), January 26, 2002.

Look for the Tightwad Gazette books at the local library. Our library has tons of books on saving money, budgeting, gardening, animals and even farming and you don't have to buy them.

-- buffy (buffyannjones@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

I also found it especially helpful to visually remind myself of how much progress we were making to eliminate debt. We used graph paper to make a bar graph of the amount owed. Every month on the graph, we drew a bar to represent the amount owed, showing a steady decline in the debt amount. I found this very motivating to continue reducing our debt. We posted this graph behind our bedroom door so we could see it when we wanted, but also could keep our information private from visitors.

-- Liz Rhein (merhein@shentel.net), January 26, 2002.

Kristean,

As long as everyone is offering their favorite books, How about "How to survive without a salary" by Charles(?) Long.

WARNING: This book will bounce off your brain like water off a ducks back if you (AND hubby!!!!!) are willing to make some MAJOR changes in your spending habits and lifestyle.

I can't speak about you specifically, but I know a whole lot of people who are in denial about being poor. They are poor, but want to buy all the things that everyone else has. They buy new bunkbeds for the kids ($500) because "they need new beds" when really the kids need something safe and comfortable to sleep on. This could have been as little as second hand matteresses from goodwill placed on milk crates. Total savings: $450. Soda is NOT a nessessity! TV is free (but pretty lame IMHO), Your Local library's video rental department is free, unlike blockbuster. Life can get pretty austere, but keep the goal in mind.

I am in a similar financial situation and have to remind myself that every decision puts me one step closer or one step farther away from my dream.

-- James in ID (jlfinkbeiner@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.

As someone who's helped count Tana's loose change in her sofas, I can vouch for her success! And she's full of other great ideas, too! I miss her much, and wish she still lived closer to me.

My husband and I were DIRT poor in college but scraped enough money up and called in favors to buy an unfinished cabin and 10 acres 18 miles from town. We "lived between the studs", finished the place off, fixed up the property and sold it for $25,000 profit in 3 years. It helped us get a start, and we suffered at first, parents thought we were nuts, etc. but do what you have to do! Cut your expenses to the barebones, and find a fix- it- up place to buy or rent. Blessings, and remember God's got a plan for you! Find out where he's working and join HIM!

Lisathemom

-- Lisathemom (raylisa@friendlycity.net), January 26, 2002.

Another idea that I have used for years with incredible success: You need an Image Board. Get a piece of posterboard and a bottle of glue. Assuming that you have access to old magazines, what you do is cut out pictures of all the things you hope to have or achieve. For instance, you want a farm? Collect pictures of farms. You want to live in the mountains? Cut out pictures of homes in the mountains. You want a horse? Find horse pictures. Flowers? Gardens? Dogs? Kids on bikes? Old tractors? Barns? Log cabin? Whatever you love, get pictures from the magazines. Glue them (collage-style) all around your poster board. Cut words out, too. Got a mag with an article called "Decorating Your Country Home"? Cut that line out and glue it on your Image Board. This board should have pictures and words that make you happy and that represent or describe your goals, however far- fetched. Then, keep this piece of art in a place where you'll look at it every single day. You want these images embedded in your brain! You are giving your mind a clear and concise goal to work toward, and the amazing thing is, the things you put on the board WILL come to you. I have done this many times, with spectacular results.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), January 26, 2002.

My advice to you is much different from the others. It's to stay out of the grocery store! If you don't have garden space where you are now you can still garden in containers that you can move with you later on. Go scrounging for containers - don't buy 'em. Five gallon buckets will grow a big tomato plant and milk jugs will grow salad stuff - let your imagination go on this. Grow every bit of your own food that you possibly can. Shop yard sales for canning jars. Others here have found that you can get two dozen or more for just a couple of dollars. Shop for a pressure canner at these yard sales. Make it a habit to check your local Goodwill or Salvation Army stores every week because canners turn up often. Let the store managers know that you need a canner and ask them to let you know when one comes in. Let your church or social groups know you want a canner. Once you get it, make sure you have a good gasket and then use it! Shop at the Farmers Market and buy 15 to 20 pounds of veggies at a time. Take them home and can them. For a total of $30, we canned far more green beans than we can hope to use for the two of us for a year. Excess goes to the local food pantry or directly to others who appreciate the free food. Make friends with the farmers at the farmers market. Talk about your homesteading wishes and plans, explain you are canning food for your family. We found that these farmers would call us in the middle of the week to let us know they had a bushel of this or that and wouldn't "hold" until the weekend market. We went and picked these veggies up. Do your canning as a family project. Buy dried beans in bulk instead of a package at a time. I've been astonished at how much money we are saving simply from staying out of the grocery stores! Make your own snacks and "junk food". Use the money you save to pay off your debts faster.

And remember it's the very rare person that can make the jump to homesteading and self sufficiency all at once. The rest of us, the great majority, have to do it one small step at a time. But we can see forward progress and our goal coming ever closer. Talk about a high!

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), January 28, 2002.

I've always been a frugal guy, so let me offer this as advice, the more you save, the easier it gets. For every time that you pass the convienience store, or the convienience grab in the grocery store, you will be rewarded by your strenthening will. Your will power is what will get you through this situation, and propel you into your dreams. I've never seen the tightwad gazette, but I think I may just order it today, as I appreciate good advice, and I feel that I can trust that it will be worth every penny spent. Important things to do are to buy in bulk. Try to get involved in a food co-op so that when a bulk order goes out, the shipment costs are shared. Also if you might not need 50 pounds of lentils, you could devide it many ways with some other folks in the co-op, and you still get the bulk savings. I had done this before; and besides the organizing the anachists headache, it was very worth it. Grow Tea, and drink only water besides. Learn how to forage; many wild foods are abundant, and free for the gathering. Just be sure to give thanks, and harvest responsibly. Learn to keep yourself in health. Never give up hope.

-- roberto pokachinni (pokachinni@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

One caveat about the Charles Long book, I think it is written more for Canadians (they do have national healthcare). The Tightwad Gazette book (along with others that I can't remember just now) also glosses over healthcare (I believe Amy Dacyczyn's husband retired from the military, so healthcare for them was relatively inexpensive). On the reviews I saw on Amazon on one book about living on one salary, it was brought out that that particular author had married someone with tenure at a university, again, low- cost, virtually guaranteed healthcare. That is certainly not the case for many. And one medical emergency can wipe you out completely.

Not that they are bad books otherwise, but I find that for many healthcare can be their biggest expense, in some cases more than rent or mortgage.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 30, 2002.

Rememberthere are poor people everywhere. Take you money, find a place with owner finiancing & pay off your bills as you go, but get it done. You can live on far less and you know it because there are people living on less.

Making your dreams happen will make you happy. GET RID OF THE PHONE!

-- Gilinda (Me@gilinda.com), February 02, 2002.

As for medical costs, eat right, excersice, and understand your body WILL heal itself. It is designed to. Much of traditional western medicine only dispenses drugs to aleviate symptoms, till the body heals itself. Emergencies such as broken bones, etc. are an exception, where you might want a doc to set the bone. But for the most part, much of the money spent on so called medical care is waste, only masking symptoms. While it certainly might make you FEEL better, it can actually slow down the healing process.

Get off the drugs, eat right, and get fresh air, sunshine and work hard, and most health problems just go away.

Debt free and lovin it.

DONT REPLY CVIA EMAIL, the address is fake because this site allows easy emnail harvesting Blaine

-- Blaine (DO_NOT_REPLY@devnul.bs), March 31, 2002.

3 books that helped me learn to be frugal and live my dream - The Tightwad Gazette, Your Money or Your Life and More-With-Less. All have good ideas, encouragement & down-to-earth advice. Your library should have them.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 01, 2002.

Read these... http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/archives.html

Here's something I wrote February 2nd. Thought you might be interested ;-)

We have been hosting some wanna-be homesteaders in our driveway. It has driven us all nuts. Maybe you can learn something from this. We have learned a lot of lessons from them. This is hard-earned advice. Our driveway dwellers are such a perfect example of what NOT to do.......

1) do not move far away from family and friends....find a place you like in your favorite state

2) do not buy up homestead junk for "someday" then drag it around the country. It will cost more in transportation and storage than what it's worth. Until you are settled, you really don't know what is needed

3) don't spend a penny you don't have to. Look up what the typical disabled or welfare recipient gets and live on that....after all, they are expected to live on it. Anything more and you are wasting money. It makes you realize the necessities versus the junk. Save the rest.

4) Never run out and buy something. Sleep on that thought. Analyze the product. Read reviews. Make sure you *really* have to have it. Freeze your credit cards in ice.

5) Act now like you intend to act as a homesteader. You will not miraculously change when you move.

6) Don't buy the cheapest land you can find. You will live there many years. Access to your house, ease of getting to town and nearby services get more and more important. You might save a few thousand on land and then pay the difference yearly on vehicles, travel, higher prices, etc.

7) Make sure you make your needs and wants known to friends and newspapers and radio programs. Have lists. If you want to build a greenhouse, start gathering free windows and scrap lumber NOW. Keep your eye out at garage sales, etc.....but don't buy junk you might need that you have no plans for.

8) Quit whining about wanting to do something. If you really wanted to, you could be doing it right now. Maybe one part of your mind wants to and the other doesn't. Be honest with yourself.

9) Life is short. Yours could end tomorrow. If you think it's important.....DO IT TODAY!!!!! Don't wait for a time when the planets are going to align for you.

I think enjoying life is key. Nothing is more important than family, then friends, then reaching out to others. I think people who have too many tasks and run themselves ragged are crazy. No kid has to belong to every club and activity that comes along....neither do the adults. It doesn't matter where you live....you can lead a much more leisurely life.

I have never understood the folks who want to homestead, but put it off while saving money. Just sell all your crap, buy 5 or 10 acres and go live there!! A homestead doesn't need to be out in the middle of nowhere....and I think that in most cases, the people who go way out there are making a mistake.

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), April 01, 2002.