I'm thinking about buying a small flock of sheep(maybe 6 ewes to start) for a little extra income, so maybe I can stay home more and not have to volunteer for so much overtime. However, I have absolutely no experience with sheep. My "thing" is horses and dogs, my SO has a lot of experience with dairy cattle and goats(loves cattle but absolutely HATES goats). A few questions-

1- Is it possible to make any money with sheep? I'm thinking along the lines of selling freezer lamb and whole pelts(How much does it cost to get one of those tanned, anyway?).

2- What breed? Yeah, I know this is like asking what religion is best! I'm thinking along the lines of Icelandic(Are they really that hardy?) or Finn or Romanov. I like the idea of a less common purebred as they have that extra marketing advantage. As a novice, I don't want to deal with really dumb sheep or poor mothers- I don't have a problem with bottle feeding extra babies but it would be nice if mama could at least raise twins on her own.

3- What books/websites do you recommend and which books are mostly fluff?

4- Can sheep happily co-exist with horses or would they need to be separated?

5- Maybe a silly question, but if I wanted to use them as lawnmowers occasionally, what are the chances of them staying contained by a single strand of temporary hotwire?

Thanks in advance for any info you have to offer!

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), January 21, 2002

Answers

You don't want to deal "with really dum sheep"? As far I as know, there are only two types: dumb and dumber.

Try www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/ and www.breedersworld.com/sheep

Can't help with the making money angle, I couldn't make money if I was robbing banks.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), January 21, 2002.

The only address I have for a custom tanner is Sebring Custom Tanning, 429 Webster Turn Drive, Sebring, FL 33870. Don't know if they are still even in business.

Once you find out what it will cost to have a hide processed, inquire on eBay under Sheep Skins to see what they sell for. Remember if there were a viable market for them, New Zealand would be exporting them by the millions.

On freezer lambs, inquire with your local Ag. Extention Agent to see if there is even a local market for them.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

Sounds like you are wanting to make money with sheep right away. I don't think it's going to happen. If it were that easy, "everyone would be doing it". With the breeds you mentioned, or any of the less common breeds, you are going to have quite a sizeable investment. You will have feed cost,vet cost, and LOTS of misc. costs. You will have alot of time and energy invested. You will have processing fees, etc. I think you could count yourself lucky if you broke even. With Icelandics, you have a good product, but it will take you quite awhile in getting back your investment. We raise Romanovs and cross bred Romanovs on a small scale. If we break even, I'm happy.

It would be much easier to either work the overtime, or cut back on spending, than make money with sheep.

-- Kim Bailey (bailey@hilly-acre.com), January 21, 2002.

Another aspect to consider is what will you do with the carcass after the pelt is removed. Few people have a taste for mutton. You might net out more just taking culls to the local livestock auction barn.

What do you sheep raisers do with your cull animals?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

A positive aspect to consider is if your property is now zoned as residential, adding livestock may allow at least a portion of it to be rezoned as agriculture. The tax rate for agricultural usage is generally way lower than for just residential usage. I pay right at $2.00 per acre per year in property taxes.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

It reads like you're looking at going a similar direction to me. I'd suggest subscribing to one of the sheep related magazines like Shepard. The reading I've done so far has just puzzled me more.

I think your ability to make a profit may be related to your ability to get the sheep/lambs to an auction or large city. In the Northeast, the weekly newspaper Lancaster Farming carries market reports for livestock from the auctions. It's obvious that during the same periods lamb pricing is higher at some auctions than others.

From what I've read if you're going the auction route it's a matter of timing and is the lamb you're selling in demand. Among the influences on lamb prices is weight. Smaller lambs around 40lbs sell for more than heavier lambs at 70 or 90lbs if I'm reading the reports correctly.

Marketing a lamb closely before an ethnic holiday or religious holiday seems to bring a higher price. Marketing directly to Hispanics or Muslims during those periods seems to be even more of a moneymaker for some. You also have to understand what they are looking for in an animal.

The overall feeling I've gotten is that you have to work for that profit and that thinking it through is as important as the husbandry aspects.

I hope this helps. If anyone has any comments on my thoughts I'd sure like to read them.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), January 21, 2002.

We raise sheep for a living.

Can't pass up on an opportunity to talk about our sheep.

www.romanovsheep.net

homestead2

-- homestead2 (homestead@localnetplus.com), January 21, 2002.

I was more thinking about on the hoof and delivered to the slaughterhouse than the auction market, as I doubt I would have the ability to produce large uniform groups of market lambs required to get the better prices, especially w/ a small flock. I'm about an hour south of Louisville, KY which has quite an ethnic population there, and there may be a small ethnic market in the small city closest to me. Right now I'm still in the asking questions stage- not quite ready to jump in yet!

As for the ag use category, that's not a problem- I already have that classification. I raise Saddlebreds(hence the name "shakeytails")on a small scale, have a couple of beefers for my own use and already file taxes as a farm.

Just looking for alternative ways to diversify the farm and be able to stay home more. I work the overtime not because I truly need the money, but I like to pay down debt as quickly as possible(like the mortgage and horse trailer) and I like to be able to splurge every now and then- I'm already quite cheap! I don't have credit cards. I heat with wood, shop at the scratch and dent grocery, buy cosmetics at the flea market($12 foundation for $1!)and I think my last clothes purchase was a pair of insulated Carharrt overalls for $28(used- there's a store here that gets company returns- I've gotten some real bargains!).

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), January 21, 2002.

There was an article in Small Fram Today that talked about selling to ethnic groups. They had a sign in front of the farm. If you're that close to Louisville, it might be worthwhile looking for small markets/grocers that already sell to those groups and talk to them.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), January 21, 2002.

Dear Shakeytails, I love having sheep even if I seem to have 4 of the most skittish females on the face of the earth. In my limited expeience I would recommend cross bred ewes because of whats known as hybrid vigor..sometimes a crossbreed can be more hardy. Finns are quite prolific and very good mothers so a Finn cross should give you at least a 200% lamb to ewe ration if not higher. I would also start out with ewe LAMBS not adults so that you can tame them a bit and get them used to you more. My big mistake was getting an adult and her lambs. They follow her blindly and she passes on her skittish behavior though they are less flighhty than she since they are Jacob crosses. If I could do it again I'd get lambs. It'll delay you but be worth it in satisfaction of animal/human relations. A known docile breed would be helpful for a first time shepherd too.

-- Alison in NS (aproteau@istar.ca), January 21, 2002.

Ken wrote "Remember if there were a viable market for them, New Zealand would be exporting them by the millions", NZ exported about seven million unprocessed lambskins last year which I understand is in addition to the several million dollars of processed skins, pelts and hides. SOMEONE is buying them!

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), January 21, 2002.

To your question 1.I think you can. If you raise Icelandics be prepared to spend some money for breeding stock however you should have a beautiful pelt that should bring at least $100 or more depending on color and size.It cost $50 and up to have one tan or you can tan one yourself.I found Rittel(on the Webb to be reasonable and informative).2.Go with a crossbreed,more vigor, and.If you want beautiful pelts anything bred with an Icelandic is beautiful.A finn bred with a luster longwool as a Lincoln, border leicester, Cotswold produces a fleece or pelt that is luxurious. Finns tend to be small and these other sheep medium to large.If you go this way use a Finn ram on the others so that you do not have too large of lambs for the mommas.3)there is a book Raising Sheep the Modern WAy and Tan your Hide (Countryside bookstore has them).4)Mine do! 5)Fairly good.Two or more would be better 60. Good luck, Terry

-- Terry Lipe (elipe@fidnet.com), January 21, 2002.

To make money with small numbers of sheep means you'd have to think way outside the box! 6 sheep is a starting point? I knew a fellow who contracted with a shopping mall to run a live nativity scene with some of his sheep, birds, etc. at Christmas. It didn't pay all the bills but they had fun with it. Selling meat to "the ethnic market" has it's problems, they often want live lamb and they can be the most arguementative bunch......... Still better than the auctions here. Breed type for them? White faced males is what they want, everything else is 2nd rate and last sold. To make money with sheep here I sell meat, milk, milk, and milk products, wool, and breeding stock (to a lesser degree) Wool is getting a look now to sell some processed stuff, felt etc. People make money processing wool, spinning, carding felting, and giving lessons fopr same. Hides are a possability as well, I'd tan them myself unless I heard $50 Canadian to tan, so I might not. Could sell hide slippers, mitts, hats, vests, and pillows. And?? Even sheep manure is saleable. My SIL took lambs to city kids B day parties, very popular just she didn't want to keep doing it. Breed choices are as you guessed very opinionated. Dorsets are not the best breed but a good starter type. Websites OK state U for breed choices, Breeders world will get you all the "my breeds better than your breed" stuff, but it still good, and the Maryland Small Ruminant page is another good starting point. The book Raising Sheep the Modern Way isn't modern or complete but a great book to start with. It's reader friendly. The Western Canadian Sheep Production Manual is good too (for basics)Laura Lawson's books Managing Your Ewe and Lamb Problems are great but heavy reading for some, so is David C Henderson's The Veternary Book For Sheep Farmers. Don't buy a Merck Manual first buy it last. Horses may harrass the sheep they may not, the sheep should be OK with them. Lawnmower sheep's been done for money actually, but with one strand of electric? It's all in the training I'm told I can't make electric work well with 6 strands, so don't ask me!! I don't mind yakking about sheep either.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 22, 2002.

Oh yeah selling meat, our next idea is to sell individual plastic vacuum packed lamb cuts at our local farmers market, maybe even start a co-op to sell beef pork chicken and bison too. Oddly the only other producer I have on board so far is for bison! I'll be raising chicken for it as well though.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 22, 2002.