My journey up the mountain was long and torturous, O Wise One.

I had fights with many strangers who tried to stop me!

But it will all be worthwhile just to hear your words of wisdom. .......OK, so I plagerized this from Hagar and the Sunday comiics. Sonds good tho, doesn't it? Hee heee.

Here's what I can up with on tonal and naugal.First;concious and unconcious thoughts. Latter; your paranormal aspects.

Now that makes sense to me. Your explanation of astral aspects helped point the way. Thankee kindly.

Here are some more gems from Tales that I liked. Whattdoya think?

"The basic difference btwn ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge,while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse."

Challenge being opportunity to grow.

"A warrior must be fluid and must shift harmoniously with the world around him,whether it is the world of reason, or the world of will."

Believing in the unbelievable. Belief being possibility. Having to believe being certainity. Ah yes.

"Without awareness of death,everything is ordinary,trivial.It is only b/c death is stalking that the world is an unfathomable mystery."

I LOVE that!

And I just read his description of seeing his infancy.I love it! He really covers a serious topic in a delightful way. This book is a good read.

When I get stuck on something, I just put it down and pick it back up at a later date. That helps.

Your advice has been sound.I understand what you say ,in theory. The problem is in the application. Still need to learn how to deliberately find the "stillness". I find it, but not purposefully, just happenstance.

Way too much internal, infernal dialogue. What a "blursing" I like the way you turn a phrase, by the way.

John, most time, most years, I do take the serious business of living with a light heart.I find humor in just about everything! I have few sacred cows. Ha!

But this year needed to be different. What happened was needed. Hard to deal with, but needed.I have to go thru all this to get to where I think I want to be. I understand that now. But I also had to find plant allies that worked for me to help me get to the point of being able to wrestle with the rest.

Annie and my friend here, helped me with that part, and I'm grateful for their willingness to share their knowledge. Now I'm working on the second part of dissecting it all and putting it back together in a way that fits - on the days the plants help make me strong enough to do so anyway.

Yep, I have the strenght,I've been thru so much I don't doubt that. But, I still needed "medicines" to get me to the level of coping again. Still, a reminde of that ability, from a friend, from time to time, sure helps.

It is good to talk to someone who understands and takes time to offer helpful but not judgemental suggestions and insights.Thank you, John, for sharing a little of your abiding passion with me.

I don't get to post on Beyond much anymore;I don't have the time. And you know the other part, too. But I'll check back here, as I can.

Some private conversation on the way.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Answers

I like that!

"The basic difference btwn ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge,while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse."

Guess I'll pay attention the next time someone tells me that I'm on the war path!! No, seriously - I see this a lot in my work. Folks being bowled over by stuff that other folks seemingly either just take in stride, or appear to actually look forward to tackling.

Mama always quoted to me "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." I'd usually mouth-off back something like "Yeah, right - unless it permanantly maims us!" (She loved me anyway, I know she did!)

I find that I have far less difficulty with the application of theory; and far more difficulty understanding it. And maybe sometimes you're finding the stillness, but you just don't know it. And you could just be trying too hard to find it. I often find that these things come when I am least seeking them; unbidden, as you said. Putting the book aside is a way of seeking; allowing the subconcious to do the work of the concious. And, for me; a brief "nap" is often the easiest way to seek. Those 10 minutes that I spend sitting with my feet crossed in my lap, chin on chest, hands resting in lap at 03 am nearly always renew me; bring me strength. Not to mention that I can tell the nursing house officer "No, of course I'm not asleep - don't you recognize meditation when you see it?"

It is so true that our capability for dealing with adverse life happenings - or for that matter; even favorable life happenings - fluctuates from day to day. This, in and of itself, tends to throw a lot of people for a loop; as they want to believe that if they can handle a certain event or occurance on one day, or one year or period of years; that they should be able to handle it any other given day. And when you add in that our response cannot be tied to only our internal learned and instinctual behaviors; but that we must also take into consideration the effects of the outside world - both seen and unseen; which, are of course, unpredictable - well, it's a wonder that any of us manage to get out of bed in the morning - or want to!! I just really hate it when Mercury goes retrograde! ( 1/18/02 to 2/8/02)

What I find amusing in talking to my coworkers, is that while we are trained to believe and respond as if certain behaviors are not appropriate, such as responding to internal stimuli; ie "my voices are back and they don't like me"; almost all of us are willing to admit that we have had some of the same experiences as the folks on the other side of the nurse's station. A feeling of standing beside ourselves and dreamily watching ourselves do things perhaps; or maybe hallucinations - unless, of course, you believe (as several of us do) that ghosts are real. Hubs sees my Mama walking through the basement upon occasion - odd, in that the house she lived in on this site didn't have a basement; but I tell him she is probably just going to the bookshelves to find something to read! Though I feel that she isn't satisfied with the choices on display sometimes, as I will occasionally find a book lying out that I know I haven't seen in a long while! While we run the gamut of religions, and non-religions; we one and all consider ourselves to be very spiritual persons. It amazes our folks when we tell them "Ya, sure; I've done that/felt that/seen that". The problem is not in what you (we) percieve - it lies in how we react.

Sheesh! I read that over and I sound totally schizo! There must be at least a couple of me here writing tonight! Good luck wading through - I'm not even sure what I meant to say!

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

yikes Polly...........I understood what you were saying I think. Yes, when I would work psych I frequently thought what a very fine line between me and my patient.

sharon, I seldom can find the stillness, that is actually the space around the internal dialog, until I meditate for a while. The meditation practice I use is the shamatha practice of basically following the breath in and out and watching the thoughts flow through without judgment or bias. Just label it all as thought and go back to the breath. The trick is always to bring ourselves to the experience and not our "discription" of the experience. The warrior is one who experiences the experience not the discription.

Nice to see you posting sharon.......wishing you well and hugs.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

A question for Polly. If you're schizoid and I understood what you said, what does that make me?

Sharon:

You said; "The basic difference btwn ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge,while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse."

"Challenge being opportunity to grow."

One of the things I most appreciate about Tibetan Buddhism is their desire to use EVERYTHING in their life as an opportunity to grow. Even minute, seemingly inconsequential things can yield spiritual insight and growth if they're properly approached.

"A warrior must be fluid and must shift harmoniously with the world around him,whether it is the world of reason, or the world of will."

"Believing in the unbelievable. Belief being possibility. Having to believe being certainity. Ah yes."

While I don't specifically disagree with that and actually tend to believe it myself I often ask myself if it isn't a high falutin exercise in self delusion. Its like the difference between the empiricist and the "true believer". The empiricist sez "I saw. Now I believe." The true believer sez "I believe. Now I see."

Part of the "trick" to this stuff is to be emotionally invested in the belief system because the passion(emotion) is what animates and vivifies the belief.

On the other hand I personally believe we are currently deluded and it has occured thru the "mechanism" of maya or illusion (original sin?)so perhaps the same mechanism can be used to return us to "reality"?

"Without awareness of death,everything is ordinary,trivial.It is only b/c death is stalking that the world is an unfathomable mystery."

I LOVE that!

Yupper, thats the mystery and also points the "way" to eternal life IMO.

"And I just read his description of seeing his infancy.I love it! He really covers a serious topic in a delightful way. This book is a good read."

I don't remember that.

"When I get stuck on something, I just put it down and pick it back up at a later date. That helps."

I do the same thing. Sometimes I'll get stuck for years. I'll bring it up now and then and think it over and put it back when I'm not getting anywhere but sooner or later the pieces fall into place.

"Still need to learn how to deliberately find the "stillness". I find it, but not purposefully, just happenstance."

Something that's been helpful to me is to pay close attention to the circumstances immediately preceding the stillness. What were the inner conditions that aided in taking you there? How did you FEEL immediately prior to the stillness? Among other things I suspect a total immersion in what you're doing. A sense of comfort and total lack of self consciousness with the activity.

"John, most time, most years, I do take the serious business of living with a light heart.I find humor in just about everything! I have few sacred cows. Ha!"

I've sensed that from many of your posts but sometimes we get so caught up in our internal dialog and all the nagging fears and worries that we do sometimes forget that they are "vain imaginings".

"But this year needed to be different. What happened was needed. Hard to deal with, but needed.I have to go thru all this to get to where I think I want to be. I understand that now."

Thats a good attitude!

"Still, a reminde of that ability, from a friend, from time to time, sure helps."

Thats what friends are for.

"It is good to talk to someone who understands and takes time to offer helpful but not judgemental suggestions and insights.Thank you, John, for sharing a little of your abiding passion with me."

Glad I could help.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Polly.... you know there's that fine line btwn genius and insanity.

Einstein was a warrior, wasn't he?

You're still on the right side methinks.( I was,however, having some doubts abt. me in 2001, but I'm right with it now!)

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002