As you all know i have these goats that I bought to clean up campmeeting ground some were bred some weren't.Well I guess this one was she couldn't be to far along since no milk bag,and she was not big like when bred..this would have been her frist time.Now this is what is happening she has been leaking blood now she is passing some thing like a tube but it is not like what you see when they have fluid in it and it is about 3 inches out she is eating great but she is sure passing some thing,like i said she has been doing this since last night .is she misscarrying or what do you think.She likes like it is no big deal,and she acts like no pain.doesn't go off by her self .stays with flock eating .Does any one have information on this ,thanks a lot.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 08, 2002

Answers

She would have to be a ways along for you to be noticing all of this. Most abortions are nothing more than a really wet tail, you don't see any blood maybe some pink tinged mucous at the most. How much blood are we talking? Remember with blood coming out of cavities, if it is bright red then it is fresh and fairly close to the opening, dark blood is dead and further from the opening. If you are talking tissue with dark blood then yes she is probably sloughing off a already dead or being absorbed kid. I would start her on pennicilin. You want her to clean all the way so she doesn't have problems next year. Any 300,000 unit pen is given at 3cc per 50 pounds under the skin and since this is preventative only one shot a day for 5 days instead of the normal 2 shots a day if she was ill or spiking a fever. She should have a normal, "had a baby" dark brown lochia discharge once this is over, but it should not smell and she should not run a fever, if she does, get her to the vet. If she is not valuable to her, put her down. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 08, 2002.

She is passing red blood not black,and she is on the wild side won't let me get close to her this tube like thing is coming out so slow.like I said started last night.she has lots of energy,this is so starge.thanks

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 08, 2002.

I just went to check thhis is what i found she is passing red blood it is close to her opening coming out not lot fluiding but bleeding this thing still sticking out about 3 inches her spilt is not real long she looks like she is puffy back there now she was not before.I have never saw one birthday to delivery but have saw pictures.But don't even see a milk bag.thanksp.s It was my understanding thier would be a bubble .before any thing like this.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 08, 2002.

3" seems like alot. Could she have prolapsed?

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 08, 2002.

You say she does not look hugely pregnant, but does she look pregnant at all? I used to care for a tunis ewe who would started prolapsing about her third month of pregnancy. She did carry the lambs to term. The local vets had no words of wisdom for us, but I have since seen things sold in various vet supply places to hold in prolapses to term. I'd talk to your vet to see what his/her advise is.

-- Sheryl in ME (radams@sacoriver.net), January 08, 2002.

I just went back out there and she got up and i saw this thing fall to the ground brought it in the house it was a 6 in baby goat she had lost it,I could even see the eyes she is not bleeding now.and every thing back there looks normal back there.she is up moving around as if nothing had happened.Thanks all for your help.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 08, 2002.

Boy, this sure sounds like prolapse to me. Do you notice this protrusion when she is laying down, when she first gets up and than it seems to go back in when she walks around? It could be a vaginal prolapse.There are several treatments for this. The surest is to have your vet put in a couple of stitches, but than you MUST cut these when she starts in labor or she will be unable to deliver. Other options are a plastic retainer that gets inserted in her vagina and rigged to a harness or twine around her brisket. Lastly, I have successfully tried putting a sheep into a crate with the rear end elevated some, room to get up and lie down, but not turn around, and of course you must be there when she kids as she will not be able to turn around and clean a new kid. Definetly have a vet look at her. And if indeed it is a prolapse, do not try to breed her again and don't keep any of her daughters as this is hereditary.There is also a rectal prolapse, which I have observed in sheep that have had tails docked way too short, but goats don't get tails docked so I doubt if this is the problem. Pastor Hughes, you certainly are getting an education this year with your goats! Hope all this doesn't discourage you. The forum is a wonderful place to learn. Best of luck.

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), January 08, 2002.

Can't say I've noticed prolapses being hereditary. Has it's followers but I'm not one of them. You've got an aborted fetus! Great get it checked by a vet and find out if there was a reason it was aborted that will affect the rest of your herd. Vicki's antibiotics still apply, Pen G will do, but as your holding a dead fetus I'd switch to tetracycline.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 08, 2002.

Don't really mean it's "great" you've had a goat abort but at least you have something to work with. Make the best of a bad situation is all.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 08, 2002.

Ross since we did not know she was even pg when the man was dehorning about two weeks ago I think that is what brought this on,she was dehorned at that time,thanks all.

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 08, 2002.

Okay, just a thought as a midwife to humans, and the more I read and talk to folks, I am realizing I need to mostly apply it to animals too.

First off, you don't have any experience with this stuff (andI haven't had goat babies yet, but any day!), so what appeared to be a "tube" to you might not be her, how shall I put this?...vagina prolapsing. It wouldn't be a prolapsed uterus, obviously, and it is gone now, yes? My guess would be it was part of the baby coming out or part of her bag, just looking different, and I have seen things in human look different each time. Humans misreport all the time. I went to a woman's house who was miscarrying and worried about all that blood (she thought it was a hemorrhage) and I looked at it and thought "I should bleed so little with my periods!" The point being, we don't always know what it is. If she was prolapsing, more should have been pushed out with the birth and it shouldn't have gone back in on its own, period. That makes no sense. I also believe the most logical solution is usually it. Nothing is wrong now, so why assume it was something awful, and it probably had to do with birthing a small premature baby, which would be different than a term baby.

Secondly, did she pass a placenta too? That is important to take note of, though I guess she could have eaten it.

Thirdly, I don't agree with giving antibiotics. I think we mess up ourselves and animals more with all these drugs. She didn't do anything too weird. If she had just given birth to live normal babies you wouldn't give antibiotics, would you? Just having having a miscarriage doesn't mean antibiotics are necessary. That can also be a body's way of getting rid of a weak creature. Antibiotics are great when really important to use, and otherwise weakens a creature. So, consider just keeping an eye on her and looking for signs of infection.

And last, I don't have much use for most vets or doctors. If this "tube" is gone, you might just want to save your money and assume it had something to do with the birth and see. I usually don't assume anything is wrong, and that bodies were created to maintain themselves healthfully, and don't need tons of intervention. I think this about my animals too. Take care of them well, and they usually do okay.

Just wanted to add in these other ideas for you to consider!

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), January 08, 2002.

The tube he saw was the umbilical cord, detached. The placenta is usually abosorbed with an abortion like this, or comes out along with the kid/kids, hence one of the reasons for the antibiotics. Another reason for the antibiotics was the time it took her to abort, she had an open cervic from the first email which was the night before last! Yes I would say your dehorning of these goats could have caused this problem. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.

There are plenty of diffrences between people and animals, a vaginal prolapse would be one of them. Don't goats abort from chlamydia too? I'm surprised that kind of stress would cause an abortion, I'd have thought goats were more resiliant than sheep. Personally I'd get the fetus tested but if she's going on antibiotics anyhow it might be a waste. How many other goats are in the herd?

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), January 09, 2002.

Yes that was what it was the cord. As you said in your answer. I repasted it here Vicki.Pastor Hughes. The tube he saw was the umbilical cord, detached. The placenta is usually abosorbed with an abortion like this, or comes out along with the kid/kids, hence one of the reasons for the antibiotics. Another reason for the antibiotics was the time it took her to abort, she had an open cervic from the first email which was the night before last! Yes I would say your dehorning of these goats could have caused this problem. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002. Thanks all,your the greastest couldn't do with out your help.Pastor Hughes

-- Pastor Hughes (hbchurch@brightok.net), January 09, 2002.