For reasons I won't waste anyone's time explaining, I have 3 kids who are 3 weeks old and haven't been disbudded yet. They're Nubians. Is it too late? I will have to use caustic paste and I can't seem to find my disbudding iron.

-- CJ (cjtinkle@getgoin.net), January 08, 2002

Answers

Then get a 3/4 inch copper fitting, holding it with vice-grips and wearing gloves, heat it up over a flame, propane torch, stove flame, or start a fire! When it is copper red, use it just like the disbudding iron! Remember the first part of the burn is just burning through skin and hair. After picking off all the hair and flipping off the cap with your thumb, you then repeat the burn until you get a nice copper circle, then you are done. You will have to reheat between buds. Caustic paste takes much longer and never does as good of a job. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 08, 2002.

Hi Vicki, then 3 weeks old isn't too late to disbud them?

-- CJ (cjtinkle@getgoin.net), January 08, 2002.

No not at all, infact it is really the best time for high multiple Nubians. The hornbuds are there for you to see clearly, just take a pair of hoof trimmers, or rose bush pruners and snip them flat with the head and burn. Swiss breeds would have horns started by 3 weeks :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.

When is the best time to use an elastrator?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.

When they have horns. If you do young goats this way they continue to grow and soon you have large stumps that need to be done again. I would always want to disbud, but if a bad scur developed or you could pick up a really nice doe (in fact a nice doe is in NC right now with horns her owner wants to find a good home for) I would dehorn her with the elasatator bands. I had no idea until last year on the internet that you could even register with ADGA with horns, so you could pick up registered stock that did have horns. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.

Ok--this may sound dumb--but how big is it before you consider it a "horn" and when you elastrate. Do you need to apply any kind of antibiotic to the area being elastrated? I know I will find this out soon when I help a neighbor do his flock (is it a "flock") but I am curious.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.

DO NOT USE CAUSTIC PASTE! I tried it before I got my dehorning iron. The stuff is dangerous, I was always managing to get it on me..., the kid's suffer for hours, and have to be bandaged if you don't ant the paste to be rubbed into their eyes, and worst of al, after all the torture they go through, the *%$% doesn't work!!! I did several kids at least three times. By the time I was done, they hated me. Some still grew back and had to have the horns removed in other ways, pinched off with nippers and then burned, all kinds of stuff, it would have been so much simpler to just borrow my friend's iron. I have no idea why the goat catalogs are still selling this stuff, I think it ought to be banned, and certainly a goat catalog should not be carrying it!

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 10, 2002.

Okay, I finally unearthed my disbudding iron. I've never done this before, it's always been my hubby's job as I bawl everytime a critter gets hurt. I have a Rhinehart X40. Let me just get this straight, I'll die if I hurt the little guys. First I'm going to shave the area around the buds, then I'm too cut the nubs of with hoof shears, right Vicki? Then, how long is "until I get a copper ring" approximately? 10 seconds? Thanks guys

-- CJ (cjtinkle@getgoin.net), January 10, 2002.

Several really good sites showing how they do it, here is what I do. I don't disbud until I can feel the nub all the way up, not just the small nub at birth. I do not shave the head. I heat up the iron, when it is hot enough to instantly make a circle on wood, I snip off the horn bud flat against the head. Yes it will bleed, infact if the kids are 3 weeks old it will spray. I immediatly place the iron, flat side down, over the top of the horn to cauterize the bleeders. Once burnt, I make my first burn throught the hair and the skin, which sort of attaches the top layer of horn material to the skull. Probably 10 seconds. I set the iron down, let it reheat while I pick all the hair and skin off the head, if you use your thumb you can actually flip that top part of the bud off. Now you can see the horn base. I then take the disbudder and apply it to the top of the head, while slowly, rotating the iron around in a circle, I do not press down hard. About 10 more seconds and check for the pretty copper circle, and that there are no breaks in that circle, or I apply the iron again. I spray the head with anything I have around that is areasol, right now it is Furox, to cool the head and disinfect it. I do not like to use ointments, you want this to dry not to stay gooped up. I go onto the other side. The kid is then vaccinated, 2cc Bar Vac CD&T IM. In 21 days I will revaccinate and at the same time really check the head, anything at all that is even rough to the feel is reburnt. Now..............the longer you keep the heavy irons plugged in the hotter and hotter they get, when doing the 5th or 6th kid you may only need 5 seconds. This is where your experience will come in. With the lenke burners you may need 15 or 20 seconds. You will quickly learn the first year if you have done a good job or not, so write down what you did. If you have scurs, or horn buds that don't come off, just continue to grow a weird burnt on the top horn, then you did not keep the iron long enough. Scurs are caused by leaving small bits of horn root intact around the outside diameter of the horn base. Remember that goats horns are actual roots the whole base is alive, unlike cattle whom only have the outside edge and it isn't attached to their sinus cavitites, that is why you can scoop out a cattle horn, if you scoop out a goat horn you leave holes in their head that you can quite literally poke into and see their nose holes!

The wound will do nothing for a week or so, then it will puff up scabby like a childs knee that is scabed over, you know just the time they start picking at it :) Then the whole thing falls off and you may have a small amount of bleeding, usually it is jello like looking blood. Just leave it alone or spray with antiseptic again. Rarely a kid will hit its head so hard on something that they will jar the disbudding job and cause blood to run down their faces. Clean them up and reapply the disbudding iron to the area on the head that is bleeding. Disbudding irons are also great for cautierizing hoof injuries, or bleeding from cutting to close while hoof trimming, that you can't control with just pressure for a few seconds. If your kids are born late in the year during fly season, you may want to spray their heads with furox every weekend, just like you would do if you castrated them. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 10, 2002.