PLEASE USE THIS THREAD TO CONTINUE THE DEATHBED CONVERSIONS DISCUSSION.

IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY, FEEL FREE TO READ THE ORIGIANAL THREAD ... THEN MAKE YOUR POSTS ON THIS THREAD.

PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY MORE ON THE ORIGINAL THREAD.

THANK YOU!

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2002

Answers

THANK YOU!

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2002

Brethren and Friends:

Mr. “Someone” has found something that he thinks is “interesting” as follows:

“I find it interesting that Romans 10:9 STILL hasn't been brought up.”

The subject of this thread is “deathbed conversions” and inasmuch as this verse has nothing to say about deathbed conversions no one should be surprised that this verse has not been brought up in connection with this thread. But also this verse, Romans 10:9,10, has been discussed by E. Lee Saffold and others ad nausium in other threads. In fact, in our lengthy debate with Mr. Barry Hanson in more than one thread we not only brought this verse up in our responses to him we completely explained its meaning in detail. And then later, in the archives, there is an entire thread, and a lengthy one at that dedicated completely to a discussion of this verse and E. Lee Saffold had more to say about it than anyone else. SO, Mr. “Someone” who is not willing to “bring up his name” because he probably is ashamed of the false doctrines that he prefers to teach about this verse and others, is just completely unaware of how much this verse has been discussed in this forum, isn’t he? But, he is new to the forum and we can understand.

Then he says:

“Each day I do a search on this page to see if it has been used as counterpoint to those that claim we must be baptized to be saved. “

Why would anyone want to “counter what Jesus said? For Jesus is the one who claimed the following:

“He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED” (Mark 16:16). So, if you want to bring up “counterpoints” against Jesus Christ and His “claims” that is your business but I would not recommend using the words of the apostles of Christ for they made the same “claims” that Jesus made about baptism. And you will quickly find that Romans 10:9,10 is not a “counter claim against Mark 16:16. They harmonize perfectly with one another.

Well, you should search not only this page but also the archives. For it was brought up to “counter” the truth that Jesus taught. For he said, “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16) and if you read that thread you will see that it did not work out to well for the person who tried to use that ignorant and useless argument.

Then he says:

“I see Romans 6 quoted over and over by E Lee...but never this: "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10"-NKJV “

Indeed, you do see E. Lee quote Romans 6:3-6; 16-18 numerous times but you have NEVER seen ANYONE especially Mr. Someone ANSWER the argument from Romans 6:3-6; 16-18) now have you? But we believe every word of Romans 10:9,10. For it shows clearly that MAN must DO something to be saved which is something that Mr. Someone denies. And this verse does teach that “with the heart man “believes unto righteousness AND with the mouth confession is made UNTO salvation. But Mr. Someone believes that a man is saved the “moment” that he believes in Christ and that he does not need to DO anything else for salvation. But this verse says that a man after believing must CONFESS unto salvation. SO, a man is not saved by “FAITH ONLY” according to these verses he is saved by FAITH AND CONFESSION. If he believes but does not CONFESS he will not be saved, now will he? For this verse says plainly that with the mouth CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION. Now what does that do to the nonsense of salvation by faith only? Now, Mr. Someone wants us to accept that Romans 10:9 is all that one must know and obey in order to be saved. But verse 9 only tells us one thing we must do to be saved. Verse 10 tells us another thing men must do to be saved. And if we go through the rest of the scriptures we shall find ultimately ALL of the things man must do to be saved, won'’ we. For we are told in God'’ word that"

“How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! How great is the sum of them!” (Ps. 139:17).

We must believe in Christ. (John 3:16; Romans 10:9)

WE must repent of our sins (Acts 3:19; 2:38)

We must confess Christ before men (Matt. 10:32,33; Romans 10:10)

And we must be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16).

So we cannot just take part of what God commands us to do and ignore the rest and expect to be saved. But that baptism is the place WHERE and the time WHEN our sins are remitted or removed from our souls and we are thereby saved from sin and its consequence is evident from numerous passages which we have mention before that Mr. Someone just cannot answer. (Mark 16:16; Matt. 28:19,20; John 3:3-5; Titus 3:3-5; Eph. 5:25,26; Heb. 10:22;Gal. 3:26,27; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Acts 8:14-40; Acts 16:17-34; Romans 6:3-6; 16-18; Col. 2:11-13; Gal. 3:26,27; I Peter 3:21). Read them friends. And you can rest assured that Romans 10:9 does not teach contrary to Acts 2:38 or Romans 6:3- 6;16-18. For God’s word does not contradict itself. For just as surely as Romans 10:9 says that man “believeth unto righteousness” even so Acts 2:38 says, “repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38. And Jesus said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). Now all of these verses together teach the truth. But Mr. Someone’s problem is that he has added something to Romans 10:9 that is not there. You see Romans 10:9 says that man believeth unto righteousness but Mr. Someone thinks that it says “man becomes righteous by believing ALONE”. But do read it as often as you like and see if you can find the word ALONE anywhere in the verse. And he does not want you to notice that the very next verse 10 gives something else that a man must do to be saved “besides believing”! No, friends Romans 10:9,10 does not give Mr. Someone any help for his false doctrine of “salvation by faith only” now does it? But, as far as his implication that we were ignoring this verse let him read our thread in the archives, which was dedicated entirely to these verses.

Then he says:

“Today is the first time Romans 10:10 has appeared on the search. “

We recommend that you search again!

Then he says:

“Notice 10:9 ---that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. “

It does say that doesn’t it! Now what just happened to his doctrine of salvation by “faith only”? For now not only must one believe unto righteousness but he must also “confess with his mouth the LORD Jesus? And confessing with your MOUTH is WORK, believe me! Just try confessing Christ in any group of people and you will find yourself in many arguments and you will WORK very hard confessing Christ with your mouth before men. But, Mr. Someone thinks that works does not save us but this confessing with your mouth is a work that a man must DO if he is to be saved isn’t it? And since these verses tell us two things a man must do to be saved are we to just ignore any other verses in the word of God that instruct us of what we must do to be saved? For example, Jesus said, “I tell you, nay, except ye REPENT ye shall all likewise perish.” (Luke 3:5). And we are told “repent ye therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out…” (Acts 3:19). And again “At the times of ignorance God winked at but now commandeth all men everywhere to REPENT” (Acts 17:30). But the two verses that Mr. Someone quotes do not say anything about repenting. So, can confessing Christ and believing even if he fails to repent of any of his sins save a man? I do doubt it. And Jesus said, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16).

Then he comments on these verses as follows:

“NOT "you might be saved" or "you must then be baptized as well" only "you will be saved"”

Now, this verse does say that a person who confesses Christ and believes on him he WILL be saved. But WHEN will he be saved? This verse does not tell us, does it? It just says that a person who believes and confesses Christ will be saved. But the scriptures, which talk of baptism, tell us WHEN a believer who has repented of his sins and confessed Christ will be saved. He will be saved when Christ; whom he believes in and has confessed removes his sins from his soul! But when does that happen? That happens WHEN a believer is buried with Christ in baptism and not one moment before. (Col. 2:11-13).

And when does a believer who has confessed Christ begin a “New Life”? He begins a new life when he dies with Christ to the world, is buried with him in baptism and RAISED TO WALK IN NEWNES OF LIFE” (Rom. 6:3-6) and not one moment before. And when does a person become a NEW CREATURE? He becomes a new Creature when he is IN CHRIST JESUS. “Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. “ (2 Cor. 5:17). And when does one get into Christ? When he is BAPTIZED IN TO CHRIST. “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. “ (Gal. 3:26,27).

And that explains why “baptism doeth also now SAVE US” (1 Peter 3:21).

And that, my friends, is not only “interesting” but it is the truth.

For Christ and those who love the truth in Him,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

...."yap yap yap" says the neopharisee.

oh brother. I bet you won debate class all the time....your opponents probably cried out for mercy...gave up...just to be done with you.

you are an excellent twister or words...not that I would be proud of such a skill....

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

Yep, that's what it ways. No nonsense about when (as you add to the Scriptures)

I suppose I could do the same lame thing and sink to your level...."mark 16:16 never says WHEN a person must be baptized....neener neener!!!"

what boulderdash. Have fun with your many words, and hoping that by them you will be heard.......

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

oh and now watch mr neo P pounce on the typo's....he'll no doubt go on for pages and hours.....

...."yap yap yap".

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

Mr. Beeswax,

Since you value short answers and E. Lee seems incapable of short answers, let me respond to your "point" about Romans 10:9. Let me start with a question:

Who was Romans written to?

If Romans was written as an evangelical letter to some non-believers, then you've made a point. If Paul was trying to instruct some non-believers through a letter, then certainly Romans 10:9 would be a complete answer.

But if Romans was written to believers, to those already completely instructed on the "milk" of the faith, then when Paul alluded to how they came to faith, he would say just enough to remind them about when they accepted Christ.

In fact, not only does he summarize in Romans 10, but he also summarizes in Romans 6:4-5 "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection".

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

It's funny how our anonymous poster stops at Romans 10:9 for if he or she were to continue on to verse 13, the Bible specifically says that "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Verses 14 and 15 explain verse 13, and if you continue on to verse 16, it specifically says: "But they have not all obeyed the gospel."

So, the gospel is something that must be obeyed according to the Bible isn't it?

You said in the other thread "It comes down to works Vs. grace"

You seem to misunderstand what Paul meant when he was speaking of works in the book of Romans. Romans 11:6 is not teaching that there is nothing we must do (other than believe) to be saved. Paul is making a comparison between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ in that salvation is no longer based on works as it was during Old Testament times.

Oh by the way, faith is also a work. See John 6:29.

In Acts 2:40 Peter exhorts the Jews to: “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

Also, Paul exhorts the Philippians in Philippians 2:12 to…“…continue to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Grace is God’s part, but Obedient Faith is humanity’s part in the salvation process. To deny these clearly stated Biblical admonitions is surely a very foolish thing is it not?

James 2:20 says "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" Verse 26 continues with, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

It is God, not fallible humanity, who has elected to focus upon baptism as the dividing line between the saved and the lost.

It is only the most foolish of people who would dare to deny this fact of eternal significance.

God is not tolerant of disobedience as Galatians 1:6-11 (emphasis verses 8 and 9) clearly states.

Indeed it is OBEDIENCE, NOT "FAITH ONLY" (James 2:24) which is absolutely crucial to ones salvation – see Hebrews 5:8,9.

Baptism is a work of faith in God’s operation/work, not ones own righteousness. At baptism ones sins are removed by God because one is obeying His command, thereby manifesting the right attitude toward Him - 1 Peter 3:21!

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

Brethren:

Notice that Mr. “Someone” says:

"yap yap yap" says the neopharisee.”

I have read my own post again as well as others in this thread and have not seen anyone say “yap, yap, Yap” except Mr. Someone. Is he calling himself a “neopharisee”? If he did he is probably right but I would think that the Pharisees were more faithful and concerned about truth than he appears to be.

Then he says:

“oh brother. I bet you won debate class all the time....your opponents probably cried out for mercy...gave up...just to be done with you.”

Well, I do not gamble and therefore “betting” is something I would not do as a Christian. But, If Mr. Someone is “betting” that I “won debate class all the time” he would be wrong. For the truth is that I have never attended a “debate class” in my life. But one thing is for certain. If Mr. Someone attended a debate class and offered no more evidence to support his proposition than he does in this thread he would definitely never “win” in debate class, now would he?

Then he says:

:you are an excellent twister or words...not that I would be proud of such a skill....”

That is a fine assertion but what is the PROOF of it? He does not show one single word that we have “twisted” now does he?

Then he quotes in large letters the following verse:

“Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”.

So, we shall now just quote the verses that he hates to hear and refuses to believe.

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved:” (Mark 16:16).

Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38).

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doeth also now save us. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Christ” (1 Peter 3:21)

And now why tarriest thou arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16).

And then he says:

“Yep, that's what it ways.”

Yes and that is what it means. But it does not say that “believing alone” saves us now does it?

Then he says:

“ No nonsense about when (as you add to the Scriptures)”

I did not “add to the scriptures at all. I stated very clearly that this verse does not tell us “when” one who confesses Christ and believes in him SHALL BE SAVED. For that is future tense. But Col. 2:11-13 does tell us WHEN we are saved and so does Romans 6:3-6;16- 18. We are saved WHEN we are baptized according to these verses.

Then he says:

“I suppose I could do the same lame thing and sink to your level...."mark 16:16 never says WHEN a person must be baptized....neener neener!!!"”

If you want to get to our “level” Mr. Someone “sinking will not take you there. You will have to step up and state the truth, won’t you?. Mark 16:16 does not tell us when those who believe and are baptized shall be saved now does it? But Acts 2;38, And Col. 2:11- 13; And Romans 6:3-6;16-18 do tell us WHEN one is saved. It is when he is baptized according to these verses that one is saved. For that is when they receive the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38) and that is when the Christ removes sins from our souls with the “circumcision made without hands” (Col. 2:11-13).

Then you say:

“what boulderdash.”

Well, that is a fine assertion that Mr. Someone could not prove to be true if his life depended upon it.

Then he says:

“ Have fun with your many words, and hoping that by them you will be heard.......”

We are indeed praying and hoping that the truth found in the words, which we have spoken, will be heard. And they will not be heard because there are “many” of them. Only those who love and seek the truth will hear them. For those are willing to read as many words as they must to learn the truth. But, those who care nothing about the truth are too lazy to read much especially if they must face truths that they do not want to hear.

But, as Jesus said, “let him that hath an ear hear”. False teachers have always been hard of “hearing” haven’t they? Notice the following scriptures about that matter:

“Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they [are] a rebellious house.” (Eze. 12:2).

“But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.” (Zec. 7:11).

“He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” (Matt. 11:15).

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Tim. 4:3,4).

Mr. Someone would hear us if we were to teach the fables that he prefers to hear, wouldn't he? But instead we speak the truth according to the Lord Jesus Christ, which is stated by him i these words:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved:" (Mark 16:16).

But Mr. SOmeone prefers the "fable" that men are saved by "faith only" and even though James 2:24 flatly states the opposite he still prefers that "fable" over the truth. Hear the truth taught by James on this matter. "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

For Christ and those who love the truth in Him,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2002

So....

If one must be baptised to have sins 'remissed'....

Do you ever sin after you have been baptised? Have any of you ever lapsed (say, lusted after a woman or told a lie)?

Do you need to be re-baptised in order to be saved?

If not, why not?

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Brethren:

Finally we have a good question from Mr. Nunyo Beeswax, who appears to be the same person as our “Mr. Someone” who is too ashamed of his positions that he cannot prove to be the truth that he does not want anyone to know his name.

But, in response to the truth of God’s word, presented by us in our previous post he asked:

“So.... If one must be baptised to have sins 'remissed'....”

Well there is no “if” about this for the scriptures plainly states the following, which Mr. Nunyo Beeswax cannot answer:

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)

And again Ananias told Saul:

“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16).

And again:

“In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;” (Col. 2:11-13).

This is the reason that Christ tells us:

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:15,16).

But even though baptism is the initial point wherein our past sins are all forgiven the very good question arises concerning those who sin after they have been baptized as follows:

“Do you ever sin after you have been baptised?”

We are no different in this regard than those who pretend that they can be saved by “faith only”. For if you were to ask them if they have ever sinned after they “believed in Christ” they would, if they were honest and truthful say yes, wouldn’t they? Then are they required to start over again and “believe” in Christ?

But we have an example in the New Testament that shows what one must do who sins after having been baptized into Christ. Let us read about it together.

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and [in] the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.” (Acts 8:12-24).

Now from this we learn that the Samaritans, including Simon, had believed and been baptized. And from Acts 2:38 we see that they had therefore received the remissio0n of sins (Acts 2:38) but they had not yet received the “gift of the Holy Spirit” that was promised in Acts 2:38 even though they had believed the gospel and obeyed it by being baptized. Therefore the apostles “Peter and John” came down and prayed for them that might received the Holy Spirit and when the apostles laid their hands on them they received the Holy Spirit. So, we have persons here who had now believed and were baptized received the remission of their sins and had received the Holy Spirit through the lying on of the apostle’s hands. These were indeed saved from their sins. But one of them, Simon, had an evil thought after being baptized stemming most likely from his former manner of life and thought. SO he sought to buy the gift of God with money”. He wanted to have the same power as the apostles to bestow the Holy Spirit upon anyone that he would lay his hands. And then Peter told him, after he had been baptized for the remission of sins that he was guilty of sin and was “in the bond of iniquity and the gaul of bitterness”. And then they told him in verse 22 what he should do about his condition. He was not told to be “baptized again” but instead he was to repent and pray God if perhaps the though of his heart might be forgiven him. Now this should settle for all thinking persons the fact that once a person obeys Christ commands to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins that they are then IN CHRIST JESUS having been forgiven of all their past sins. (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; Gal. 3:26,270 For now that they are in Christ they are new creatures. (2 Cor. 5:17). And then if they sin they have an advocate with the father< Jesus Christ the righteous. And what they must do to receive forgiveness of any sin after they have initially obeyed the gospel by “repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38)? That is to do what Peter told Simon to do “Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.” (Acts 8:22).

And this is what John told those who had become Christians to do:

“If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 1:6-1John 2:4).

Now the apostle John wrote his letter known as 1 John to CHRISTIANS which are only those who had obeyed the Lord’s Commands in the gospel since one cannot become a Christian otherwise. And he tells them that if they sin they have an “advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous”. Now Christ is the advocate, according to John to those who “OBEY his commands” and this the Hebrew writer says as well (Heb. 5:8,9). So, when we obey Christ’s commands to be baptized we shall be saved because then Christ not only removes our past sins from our souls but he also becomes our advocate. This is in case we sin against him after having received the initial cleansing that comes from our obedience to the gospel of Christ. (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16) and then if we sin we must, as Peter commanded Simon to do “repent and pray God” for forgiveness. And this John also says when he says “if we confess our sins he is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness.” Now that is what the scriptures say. It is only ignorance that would think that on must be baptized every time he sins. But this does not negate the fact that baptism is “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38). For it is in baptism where the blood of Christ, which takes away our sins, is applied to our lives for the rest of our lives so long as we are faithful and obedient to Christ. And once we are “baptized into Christ” we have a perpetual access to his precious blood which continually “cleanses us of all unrighteousness” if we will confess our sins and pray to God for forgiveness. But those who are not “baptized into Christ” (Gal. 3: 26,27) do not have this access to Christ blood. That is what baptism brings us to. It puts us into Christ where we have access to the blood of Christ and Christ is our advocate. But, until one is baptized into Christ he cannot reach God’s grace. And this explains why Jesus Said:

“He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED:” (Mark 16:16).

Then our friend says:

“ Have any of you ever lapsed (say, lusted after a woman or told a lie)?”

I have not lusted after a woman or told a lie but as all men who have become Christian I have sinned. And when I did I took the inspired apostle Peter’s advice given to Simon who sinned after he was baptized and I took the advice of John the apostle. I repent and confess my sin to God and pray that the “thought of my heart might be forgiven”. And because of Christ and the fact that I have been baptized into this relationship with Christ, I am able to do what those who have not been baptized into Christ cannot DO. I am able to simply repent, confess my sin to God and pray for forgiveness and be forgiven. Those who have not been baptized into this relationship with Christ do not have this great blessing for they are yet in their sins and have not obeyed the commands of Christ and submitted to him as their Lord. For until one submits to Christ as Lord by obeying his commands to believe and be baptized (Mark 16:16) he cannot have access to the throne of Grace. For it is given to all them that obey him (Heb. 5:8,9) and all others have no access to this precious “tree of life”!

Then Mr. Nunyo Beeswax asked:

“Do you need to be re-baptised in order to be saved?”

No, as we have shown above. One must be baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:27) and once he is “in Christ” he is a “new Creature” (1 Cor. 5:17). And if he ever sins after that time he has an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Whose blood cleanses him of all sins so long as he is faithful and obedient to the commands of Christ (Heb. 5:8,9) and he repents, confesses his sin to Christ, and prays for forgiveness. This is the teaching of the word of God on this subject.

One is baptized “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38) and this action puts him into a relationship of submission to Christ as Lord (Heb. 5:8,9). And in that act of being “buried with Christ” in baptism Christ removes all past sins from our souls (Col. 2:11-13) and then we are placed in that special relationship with Christ wherein his is our SAVIOR, and not one moment before then. So, no one can “accept Christ as Lord until he submits to Christ as Lord in obeying his commands to “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38; Heb. 5:8,9) and no one can accept Christ as their savior until he saves them from their past sins which occurs in baptism (Col. 2:11-13). Thus, no one can accept Christ as "Lord and Savior” without being baptized according to his commands (Acts 2:38) and his sins are forgiven. But once Christ becomes a person’s Lord by their voluntary submission to his will he then and not before then becomes their savior by removing their sins when they are baptized. And once Christ has become their savior he then, and not before then becomes their advocate with the father so that when they sin they need only repent, confess it, and pray for forgiveness and Christ our advocate will plead their case before the father and they will be forgiven. But those who refuse to even obey the simple command of Christ to be baptized do not have this relationship with Christ because they are not IN CHRIST because they have failed to obey him by being “baptized INTO Christ. (Gal. 3:26,27).

Then he says:

“If not, why not?”

We have answered this above quite sufficiently haven’t we? But, one does not need to be baptized again if he sins after having been baptized into Christ because once he is IN CHRIST he has a perpetual relationship with Christ wherein he can obtain forgiveness of sin simply by repenting, confessing and praying for forgiveness of them. For this is the relationship that is established between Christ and us when we OBEY HIM (Heb. 5:8,9) and this includes his commands to be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:11- 13; Romans 6:3-6; 16-18). This blessing does not belong to those who have never obeyed the gospel by being baptized. And those who do not so obey the gospel will be eternally lost (2 Thess 1:8,9) because they do not have this relationship with Christ our Lord and savior.

So, now let us see if Mr. Nunyo Beeswax can answer our arguments stated above or can he do nothing more that hurl insults at the truth, which he despises because it does not fit with what he was told by someone other than God in his word.

For Christ and those who love the TRUTH in Him,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002