Hi everyone, I hope someone can help me out. I have a goat that is due to deliver anyday now. She has had a discharge for 9 days. She was bagged up but bag is going down now.

This is what happened. Saturday I ran some errands. I came home fed the goats and went to feed the chickens and rabbits. I had only walked away from the goats about 20 feet when I heard some awful screaming. I ran back to the goat pen to find my goat caught in the electric fence. I ran and unplugged the fence. Total time she was caught in fence was about 45 seconds. At first I couldn't get her to stand up but after a couple of minutes she seemed fine, she ate some hay and drank some water.Last night (Sunday) she was laying in the barn. I thought she was getting ready to have her babies. When she tryed to get up she fell forward onto her face. I still thought she may be in labor. This morning she was still in the same spot that she was in last night when I left here. I live close enough to work that I can come home on break and lunch to check on her. At my 9 a.m. break she was the same as I left her earlier. However, at lunch (noon) she tryed to get up, she couldn't. She thrashed around and screamed several times. I helped her up and she walked for a few feet the layed back down. She sreamed again. I thought she may have a baby coming out the wrong way so I ran to the house washed my hand, got some towels and veg oil. I put the oil on my hand and went in to feel for a baby. I was only able to go in to my wrist as it was very tight that far in so I decided that I had better no attempt to go in any further. After I took my hand out she wanted to get up again so I helped her up and she walked around and seemed to be better. Tonight she is still laying down but I got her to drink some water and eat a small amount of grain.She grunts every-so-often but she doesn't push.I think at this point her babies are still alive. I can not find a vet who knows what to do with goats or even wants to deal with a goat. Does anyone have any idea what may be wrong? Thanks, George

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 07, 2002

Answers

George, get an experienced goat or sheep woman to come over and check the doe. She could have a kid stuck. It could also be ketosis or milk fever, if I were you, I'd e-mail Vicki McGaugh, she will know better what to do. Smell the doe's breath, does it smell like acetone? Are her ears cold? I think you should call or e mail someone right away, milk fever and ketosis can kill a goat very quickly.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 07, 2002.

George, the above post is right, but you really need to get a vet right away.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

George, find a dairy cow vet or a sheep vet. They are both quite common and should be able to extrapolate. She sounds like she could be in real trouble.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), January 07, 2002.

Remember the stress information I hammer and hammer into everybody? Nothing more stressful than to be electrified! She is more than likely in shock, how about a warm sweatshirt, and a warm place to stay. Make sure she has warm mollassas water to drink, that you offer to her every couple of hours, and feed and hay. She may be thrown into hypocalcimia http://hometown.aol.com/goatlist/hypocal.htm

because of this or a neurological problem. B vitamins, tums, alfalfa pellets. If you are sure she is due to deliver, than call the vet, tell them what has happened and lutelyse her. If you are not sure of the due date, then just keep monitoring her. Probios for her rumen also. Don't let a doe who is injured like this just lay in the same position for any length of time. Prop her up with a bale of hay and move her. Help her get up and get some exercise if she can. There are just some questions that have no answers and this is one of them, you will have to nurse her and decide for yourself what is going on. Nothing in the vet books on this one. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

George, There are times when a vet needs to be called and this is one of them, You do not say where you are and what the weather is like there. She will get pneumonia from laying in the same spot and position for hours if it does not kill her. Please call a vet, please and let us know what happens. Call a goat person in your area and see who they use for a vet, If you don't know anyone, then tell us and we may know a goat person in that area who can help you. the ADGA membership book has goat people in every state, please help us help you. karen

-- Karen in Kansas (kansashobbit@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

I would check for milk fever. What is her temp? We have had a terrible problem with milk fever in the Pacific Northwest the past few weeks - and it is not our feeding program, am guessing the hay quality. They can get milk fever at kidding time. They will lay around more, stumble, don't want to move, eat or drink. You can also have a lazy labor where they aren't pushing much at all. Their will also be very little milk. As it progresses they will look chilled, grind teeth, and can't get up. If you have some calcium I would administer some, but with the doe already down I really think that the vet should come out. If it is milk fever they will usually do an IV and/or sub Q. Probois, Vit. B and I would also give some Nutri Drench or a little Propylene Glycal.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), January 07, 2002.

George, please let us know how she's doing when you get a chance. I feel so bad for you and your goat. I wish there was more I could do. If there is, e-mail me direct. I'm in southern Maine, so I may not be too far away.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), January 07, 2002.

goatworld.com has a 911 site also. Try to call someone in your area, just click on the state! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

Extreme stress can also cause does to go into labor whether or not it is time for them. What about the people you bought her from? Maybe they can help you out?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 08, 2002.

Hi George...just been wondering how your doe is doing. Hope its good news.

-- Sher in se Iowa (riverdobbers@webtv.net), January 08, 2002.

Sorry everyone for posting and then taking so long to reply. I was running in reading your answers,looking for info on the on other web sites, then running out to the barn to check on Frisby.

The news is terrible. I finally remembered having a conversation (about 2 years ago) with a lady who lives down the street from me, she had mentioned her mom raises mini goats as pets. I called her ,she called her mom,her mom called me, her mom came over agreed the situation was not good at all. She called her vet who was not able to come over but could be here early this morning. I ran back and forth from the house to the barn getting warm water with mollassis every couple of hours. Frisby seemed to be getting better. At three a.m. I decided that I could go in to bed. When I went down to feed and water at 6 a.m. I walked into the barn talking to Frisby asking her how she was, she looked real peaceful but did not move so I walked over and petted her. My heart sank, she had died. I had the vet come anyway and told him about the info you have all given me. He agreed that it was probably the info you gave me Vicki that was right. He asked if I wanted to keep her and bury her or if I would like him to take her and do an autopsy. I chose the latter as I still have Ruddabegga and want to make sure of what it is. I will know in a few days, but he is sure that Vicki's info is right. I now know someone with goat knowledge in the area and now have a vet. The strange thing is I called this vet and was told that he did not deal with "farm animals" just "pets" it seems he has a new girl in the office.He does work with small farm animals. The sad thing is I know this girl and now feel bad for her that she may be in trouble with the vet. All day I have been beating myself up over this. I feel really guilty. I knew she had cut back on her food but figured it was because she was close to her delivery date. When she stopped eating completely I figured she was going to kid. When she went down I knew for sure she was going to kid. I was wrong,wrong,wrong. Frisby was a real good goat,she was as sweet as a puppy. She loved to be groomed and I'd ask her for a kiss and she'd lick my face. Even last night she would nuzzel me and actually look up at me with her sad brown eyes. I can't believe how attached I had become with her. I miss her already. Ruddabegga is lonely for her too. Well, I really don't know what else to say except that I really let her down and was not quick enough to get help and it is to bad that I had to lose her to learn a vailable lesson. I have to admit there were times when I thought I might be being a "worry-wart" and then other times I would tell people that there was something seriously wrong. I was and am very surprised at how fast she went down hill. So, if anyone new with goats is reading this please, if you feel something is wrong look for help right away. Frisby went from seeming normal one day to being gone the next. I'll keep everyone posted. Also, thank you all for the advise. Even though I was to late for Frisby I promise you that the next time quick action will be taken.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 08, 2002.

So sorry to hear of your loss. Don't beat yourself up over it, you tried your best to get someone out to see her. Sometimes the vets can't even figure out what is wrong in time. Seems each situation is usually a learning one. After our first incidence I now have 3 different vets that can be contacted (as some can't be reached or come when you need thme) and several knowledgable goat peoples numbers that I keep by the phone for emergencies. Take comfort in knowing that you gave her the best care that you knew how to give at the time to her, and I'm sure she knew you loved and cared for her.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), January 08, 2002.

Oh George, I am so sorry for your loss. I know how hard it is for you as we just lost the little calf that we were trying to nurse though ill health. even though we didn't have him but a month, he was a little trooper to the end. Sometimes you just have to chalk it up to experience gained as nothing will make you feel better for awhile. Give Ruddabegga lots of hugs, and before you know it, you'll be smiling again. Goats just have that way of making you smile. God Bless, Cindy

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 08, 2002.

Sorry for your loss George. Take care. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 08, 2002.

Thanks everyone. I am told by people who know me well that although I am real nice I am cold hearted but I can tell you I felt like crying when I knew she had died. Yes. I do blame myself and will continue to. I really can't thank you all enough for your input.

Vicki, I did as much of what you suggested as I possibly could and I have to say that Frisby seemed so relaxed that I thought she would pull through. She seemed to really enjoy the warm water and mollassas.Frisby did die but at least I think that she died more peacefully than if none of you had given me suggestions. I,m going to start a new thread about nutrition (if none of you mind) so that I can have a thread on nutrition only and not have to keep looking here for the info. Thanks again to all of you! George

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 08, 2002.

Wow george, I am so sorry that you lost you goat and friend. I often wonder whatever would life be without them, but it sure is hard when we lose one. Sometimes even long time goat keepers make a wrong call and lose a goat by mistake. Please be kind to yourself and don't be too hard on yourself. hugs

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.

George, I am so sorry to hear you lost Frisby. I really can appreciate how you feel and the guilt, been there too. In fact I lost a very special doe last yr to a hard kidding, it hit me so hard I wanted to give up. But I couldn't. I knew I had to go back out to the barn again because I still had my other girls and, "bad boys" as I refer to the bucks. So out I went. I just sat there with the girls around me, hugging them and grieving for Wizard. It was the jolt I needed to get going again and continue on. They seemed to understand and despite some folks saying animals don't have emotions, etc, I say BULL, get some goats! And why this doe hit me the hardest I can't say, but I had been raising goats for 12 yrs then. So you don't have to be a newbie to feel bad, etc.

You did the very best you could for her with what you knew and had. We are all learning even though some of us have been in it for ages. Somehow I missed this post, but my guess would have been shock and to call the vet or www.goatworld.com 911 as Vicki suggested. You feel like beating yourself up, but please stop and think, you did the best you could, she knows that too.

HUGS

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.

George, I am so sorry about Frisby. Don't berate yourself for being an optimist. None of us want our animals to be sick and we all go into denial sometimes. They can't tell us what's wrong and they don't read the books anyway so they don't do what the books say. With Frisby it all happened so fast and you didn't have anyone right there to help out and that's a tough place to be in. As much as we can all say from our desks, it will never be the same as what happens in your barn. There may have been nothing you could have done anyway. Being so late in pregnancy is a major stress on the system and to have an injury like electrical shock could have been more than she could handle. Don't blame yourself. Any goat that could love you like that wouldn't blame you and you made her comfortable in the end and that's the best you could do.

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), January 08, 2002.

Thaks everyone for the kind words. George

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 09, 2002.

George, my email back to you would not deliver. With either my hotmail nor my ISP emails. Do you have another email addy? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 09, 2002.