I have noticed more and more people stating that they have left Florida for elsewhere; I left due to the growing presence of foregin born people, lack of water, and intense regulations. High price land, crowding, excessive traffic, the list goes on; what do you have to add?

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), December 30, 2001

Answers

May i ask if leaving Florida seems to be a state wide phenomenom or does it tend to be confined to the southern and coastal parts of the state? Are the things Mitch mentions bad in the non coastal parts of the panhandle too? I ask this because I know some people that want to locate in the panhandle which seems to be more like Georgia or Alabama than Florida.

-- fred (fred@mddc.com), December 30, 2001.

Fred, I was living in Winter Garden, the third point of a triangle with the other two being Orlando and Dismal World. This little town had fly rods and shotguns in the pick up back windows until recently. Citrus and cattle was the main business. Every body knew every body, crime was mailbox bashing, or stealing oranges; nowdays it is the exact opposite. The old business distric where there is a divided main street is now overrun with people of odd sounding names, rags wrapped around their heads, and cultures that are totally unfamilar.

If you go into the local stores you can hear up to 20 different languages and products on the shelf you have never heard of before. South Florida was invaded about 25 years ago, Central Florida about 10 years ago, North Florida will start in about 5 to 10 years to see the density now elsewhere. In the mean time the lakes are drying up, the bulldozers are running, the concret trucks are running, a thousand people a day are moving in. Actually 3000 people a day but 2000 are leaving also.

There are water restrictions, the lakes are becomming motocross tracks; if you own a pig it had better be hidden, chickens are limited to the size flock depending on what county you are in. Cattle must have miminum acreage per head regardless of what the supplement feeds are. Farm houses have dead bolt locks; its just turning into a bigger mess day by day.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), December 30, 2001.

Goodmorning Mitch, Wake up on the wrong side this morning? Just kidding. Hey I lived in the Keys for 25 years and watched it get more crowded everyday. Started out there living on a sail boat,every year more restrictions,finally forced to move on land in '97,where you needed a permit to repair a screendoor. '98 moved to north Florida bought 5 acres and built a cabin and started homesteading. No permits,no jobs and no hassels. I love it here,I think it will be more than 20 years before they even pave the roads out where I live. So not all of Florida is lost. I sure do miss the tropical weather year round. Happy new year, Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

Mitch, I guess I could be part of the problem, I don't have a strange sounding name but I do talk funny! I moved to Central Florida 18 years ago from Massachusetts. Even in these short 18 years things have changed a lot around here. I have been fourunate that I have ben accepted by many of the Native Floridians, I think because of my farming background and my eagerness to learn how things are done in my new home State. Many people who move to Florida want things to remain as they did where they came from.

The things that attracted me to Florida are quickly fadding away. No longer is Florida accepting of the small farmer, the beutiful nature areas are being raped every day!

As you I am disanchanted by all the Foregin people moving here, at one time I did lts of business with the Foreginers selling Muscovy Ducks and Goats but they became so hard to deal with I gave up.

I know many that have left this area, some have moved north to the Panhandle, Alabama, Oklahoma, 1 friend is moving to Alaska. I also know a family that were in the cattle business in a big way that has sold 1000's of acres and moved to South America.

I probably stuck here for a while because of Family, my Parents are retired here now and have no plans to leave, and I have no intentions of moving far away from them when in few years they may need my help.

Where will I go from here when the time is right, I don't know???

I am driving to Winter Springs this afternoon to visit my Foster Son and his Family, I dread the drive on the Florida Turnpike and I-4!

-- Mark in N.C. Fla. (deadgoatman@webtv.net), December 30, 2001.

Daryll, would you need a building permit today?

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), December 30, 2001.

You folks in Florida are seeing the future of a good part of the USA. There will always be a few hidey holes but expensive and you still have to deal with the over regulation and loss of freedom that comes with high population density. Remote areas will become public parks, with any private land near such developed to make money off tourists. I personally would prefer a nice semi tropical climate in my later years, but I foresee having to move north to escape the population boom. Sure I could find a hidey hole where I am or even in nice coastal tropical climate(couldnt afford it though), but every time I have to go to town or even get on a highway, reality would set in. I suspect the western areas of Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas and maybe eastern Montana being last to be devoloped and over regulated. The Dakotas are only states not gaining population and maybe actually even losing some population. Also maybe the last places that the high population areas of a state dont try to super regulate the remaining rural areas although I am sure there is some of that just from pressure of federal government. They have to jump through some hoops to get fed money. No good living in rural area if you have to get a permit to spit.

-- HermitJohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), December 30, 2001.

Mitch, we moved to middle TN from SE Florida 3 years ago. It was an awful place. As a general rule the population is so transient that nobody cares much about anybody else. On top of that, the dominant population where I lived and worked were retired New Yorkers. I had little old ladies run into my heels with their shopping carts in the grocery store many times. They never acknowledged they had hit me or that I even existed. They seemed to be always in a hurry. They had no problem with correcting other people's children, even yelling at them. I am a critical care nurse, and worked in Delray Beach. You would not believe the whining, complaining and arguing that I had to put up with. A typical conversation went something like this: "Mr. whoever, please lay still, you have a huge IV in your leg (cardiac cath patient) and it's bleeding alot because you're moving so much. You could bleed to death." Mr. whoever says "I don't care! I'm just so UNCOMFORTABLE!" and so on, for a 12 hour shift. Then if the wife was in the room, they would proceed to argue incessantly, often actually yelling at each other, or depending on the wife, she might pitch in and complain to me also. The Docs were horrible too, I guess from dealing with this kind of thing for years. My husband once witnessed an eldery man create a huge scene in a doctor's office because they had a policy that you had to pay one dollar for each page of medical records if you wanted copies. The guy ranted and raved for 10 minutes, had the receptionist in tears, over ONE DOLLAR. She finally gave him the copy just to shut him up. The docs and patients here are wonderful as a rule. Whenever the nurses I work with complain, I tell them stories about working in Fl.

-- Paula (chipp89@bellsouth.net), December 30, 2001.

I don't think I'd ever want to move to Florida -- too many racist and xenophobic rednecks.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), December 30, 2001.

Lived in Florida ALL my life and never plan on moving on!! And yes I'm a damn REDNECK and proud of it. Funny because I'm married to a damn yankee who loves everything about his redneck/southernbelle wife,as he says I can turn on the southern charm when it comes in handy but the redneckgirl he loves is just under the surface at all times.

-- Sandy(N.E.FL.) (REDNECKGIRL32@prodigy.net), December 30, 2001.

Hello Mitch,

I used to live in Kissimmee. My wife and I worked at Walt Disney World. When I first moved to Orlando someone walked into the church I had come down to work at and stole my Swhinn bicycle.

About two or three months later I was beat up by a dozen black teenagers. They kicked me around like a soccer ball until the police arrived. When the police got out of there patrol cars the teens all ran away. But, instead of chasing them, they came over and helped me. NO one was arrested! No one was questioned. I was sent to the hospital. I spent one month in pain from my injuries and it was two months before the bruises dissappeared.

Over the years I lived in the area, it was a common site to see people pulling guns at red lights and robbing or road raging motorists. I knew at least a half of dozen people that were robbed in the same place under the I-4 overpass on Colonial Dr. That is a place where there are two red lights on on each side. The traffic is usally always bumper to bumper. When the cars stop someone would jump into the car(if it was unlocked) and point a gun to their head and rob them.

My wife and I carried cell phones, a conceal weapon permit and handguns. We kept our car doors ALWAYS locked. I had to draw my handgun on two different occasions. Both times I averted a mugging.

My house had a complete alarm system on every window, door and even the garage. My cars had security alarms on them as well. We had two attempted burgularies on our house dispite the alarms. I put a iron gate on the front door but, they tried to break in at the back door.

A friend of mine was pulled off of his bicycle and beatened by a group of teenagers while he was coming home from work one night. He was robbed of just a couple of dollars.

While I lived there, a woman was raped and be-headed in an orange grover near my home. That orange grove is no longer there....it is a trailer court now.

Just before Meli and I moved away there was a series of babies were being left abandoned in dumpsters around the area of Kissimmee and South Orlando. All the mothers were under 14 years old.

My oldest daughter was riding her bicycle to school one day and she was hit by a woman that did not even stop to help her. The woman was apprehended at her job. She was an insurance respresentative.

Now, here in the Ozarks we live in one of the remotest parts of Southern Missouri. My nearest neighboor and friend live about a mile away. Our valley is accessible only by truck. The hill is so steep that if its snows, even four wheel drive can not get up it. I hear any visitors coming over a 1/2 mile away. If anyone comes down here they are usually lost, except for the small group of friends that know we live down here.

We have no crime. We have no rape. We have no road rage. We have peace and quiet. We no longer need bars on the windows or alarm systems. We no longer need concealed weapon permits. We no longer fear for our safety amongst the people in the area.

Now, if anyone wants to move to Florida, they better understand that they are risking the lives of their families and themselves. If any place in this world is close to Sodom and Gommoria, it is Central Florida.

Homosexuality is alive and well in Central Florida. They allow gays to parade down any place holding hands, kissing, and foreplaying. Aids is very high in Florida. Even Walt Disney World has accepted the homosexual at their Family oriented Theme Parks. They have a one week celebration call Gay Days. If you wear a red shirt during this week, (indicating you are gay) you come into the parks with tremdous discounts. The Orlando Sentinel said, "That 70 percent of Disney Castmembers were either gay or bi sexual". Disney will allow gay castmember to insure their mates with the same benefits of the married couples. But, if you and your hetrosexual mate are not married, you can not insure them according to Disney Policy. I know all of this because my wife and me were both castmembers for over 10 years.

Black Week at Daytona has created so much disturbance that when the week comes the local council fines any merchandiser that does not keep his store open. As opposed to Bike Week where everyone welcomes the 600,000 bikers that go there every year.

Miami and the Keys are no better. The old Cubans have my respect as they are all hard working and decent. The ones that came in the 1980's or later have destoryed the integrity of the rest. Slums and crime thrive nearly everywhere now. The Haitians are also hard working and decent but, the blacks in the city have much hatred for them and they are constantly fighting among themselves. Miami had to reroute any visitor to the the city by putting little "suns" on the roadsigns. If a visitor rents a car there, the info is explain to them to only follow the signs with the little "suns" . The rest of the areas are too dangerous for them to drive through.

The panhandle is still nice and some of the west coast is much like in the country. Tampa/St Petersburg is fine mostly.

The everglades are drying up. To much chemicals in the water causing certains plants to thrive, choking out the swamps. The Florida panther, and many species of wildlife have pull back so far that they are hardly seen. You will find that the alligator thrives even in the city of Orlando only because he has no other place to go. There were at least a dozen deaths in Kissimmee and Orlando because people would swim in canals or lakes. With the alligator's food sources gone, they eat whatever they find in the water.

These are the reasons I left Florida!

Sincerely,

Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

Earnest, if you were on Colonial headed east, stopped at the eastside light under I-4 and looked to the right front there is an old green 3 story glass wearhouse with a storefront on the first floor. On the side of that building there is a sprial steel fire escape put there by me.

Whats property going for in your "neighborhood"? Any thing with a large barn in good shape with a few acres?

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), December 30, 2001.

Funny, I live in Central Fl and have yet to have a homosexual experience. Now if I find out that all the Fl men have have as much smarts as some of those posting here *that* may soon change.

Diana

-- Diana (dvance4@juno.com), December 30, 2001.

Bunny, you took the words right out of my mouth! I agree with a lot of the stuff folks are saying here about too much regulations and all, and there are certainly too many regulations here in Orygun, but I thought I'd accidentally landed somehow in the racist bigot forum or something.

I'm not about to try to convince a bigot that foreigners or people who look or talk "funny" that they should look at the bright side, and appreciate their different cultural input;; I've tried that before, and failed.

I also agree that most the regulations seem to be tied to overpopulation, but that seems to get some people's tits in a wringer too, so I'll just stop tryiing for the time being.

-- joj (jump@off.c), December 30, 2001.

Hello joj,

Truth is always hard to swallow. Many people hide the reality of situations between blacks and whites by claiming they are racial issues. Violence by either group should be the focal point and not the color. But, if one color attacks another it will be published that way. You can call it racism. You can call it bigotry. But, whatever it is.....it still remains a part of the violence I have witness or first hand experienced. I have never singled out a black man to commit violence on him. However, I have experience violence committed on me because I was white.

As for issues of homosexuality. Again, I have never attempted to fondle or approach another man for sexual gain. However, both have been attempted on me. Homosexuality is real. I do not make any criticism on it except when it enters into my personal experience.

In conclusion, I must say that the truth should never been misconstrued into a racial or sexist issue. But, when the truth is there, it should be presented as accurate as it can be. That is what I have done in my post about reasons I have left Florida.

Sincerely,

Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

I lived in Florida for years. From 1978 until fall of 1979 I lived in Casselberry. I lived in Miami from 1979 until 1988 alot of crime in Miami. I was mugged four times, had a knife pulled on me once,guns pulled on me twice,a five hundred dollar bike that my boss gave me for my birthday stolen the very day I got it, run off the road twice. I was right across the street from the liberty city riots in 1980. The list goes on and on. I decided that if I wanted to live I had better leave especially because I was gay and there were a tremendous amount of ignorant people in the area. I kept my life very very secret and never let on that I was gay. I know there are people who believe that gays do not have any right to be seen in certain places and these people can make a person who minds his own business feel uncomfortable so hi ho hi ho I knew I had to go.

I moved to Daytona in 1988 and lived there until 1995. I met my partner there.I was and still am very happy that I did choose to move to Daytona when I did. I lived in Florida when all the hoopla was going on about Disney. I learned then about the amount of hatred some people feel towards other humans. Does it bother me that I'm hated by these people? Absolutely not. I have no use for people like that. They are the way they are and i doubt that I will ever be able to prove to them that I come in peace and mean them no harm. I however must say that I feel like alot of the hatred towards the gay population is brought on by the media. The media shows the way a small portion of gays are in public. I for one get totally embarrassed when they show guys in drag. I do not like this as it makes it look as if though all gay men can't wait to get home to get the jeans off and slip into a dress. I know very very few men who wear womans clothing.Most gays frown down on gays who behave poorly in public.No one ever sees us though because we are so boring and normal acting that wouldn't make the news.

Sorry, I was so into what Ernest was saying until he got onto gays and then I felt that defensive mode thing kick in. Really Ernest I think that you would be surprised that I don't go out into public and kiss and hold hands with my partner. I respect everyones right to not have to see that kind of affection in public be it staight or gay.

Opps, I guess I had better tell you all that the thing that finally made me leave Florida was not crime, taxes, traffic,or the people moving into the state. What made me leave was the scenery. I wanted to see a river flow like it was going somewhere. I wanted to notice the four seasons. I wanted to see rolling hills and mountains. I wanted to know people who have lived in the area their whole lives. I wanted to see farms that were handed down from generation to generation. I wanted to watch the migrating birds leave in the fall and return in the spring. I wanted to watch the first daffadil break through the ground. I wanted to witness ice out. I wanted to see people planting their gardens and then harvest their gardens. I wanted to be able to go fishing and have strangers share my favorite fishing hole.The list goes on and on.

This past summer while I was fishing a couple with two boys maybe three and four years old came down the path to where I was fishing. I heard them coming but they didn't know that I was there. When they came around the corner one of the boys screamed. He though I was a bear. When we all stopped laughing the family sat down and watched me fish. I caught a fish and let one of the little boys reel it in. That family was so excited that I let their little boy reel in the fish. The family was from Boston and had never been to the country befor. I told them about my town and different things for a family to do in the area. After awhile they decided to go ovver to the edge of the lake to have a picnic. I walked in the other direction to try a part of the lake where a stranger had told me that he had great luck with fishing. I caught a huge bass. I went back to where I was when I let the little boy reel in the fish. That little boy ran over to me and in his little boy talk he said, "Hey mister where did you go? We looked and looked for you. We wanted you to come have a picnic with us but we couldn't find you. I caled mister, mister but you didn't answer so I had to eat my whole sandwich but I still have an animal cracker if you want it." I thought that was so cute. This is one of the reasons I left Florida. I never knew anyone in Florida who would talk to a stranger unless they absolutely had to, and here was this little boy wanting me to have a picnic with them. The family ended up buying a nice home in the center of town. I have had lots of exsperiences like this since leaving Florida.People here like me and I like them.

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), December 30, 2001.

Everythings fine here in the Panhandle, but who knows what the future brings!

-- Scott in Fl. Panhandle (allbeds@aol.com), December 30, 2001.

When I lived there it was in the Clearwater/Dunedin area. A very pretty area and yet there was crime there as well. Some areas were worse than others. But nothing like the bigger cities.

As for Tampa and St Petersburg . . . the crime problem is rampant there just like in the other larger cities in Florida.

The "snowbirds" were the worst!!! They were rude and obnoxious people who thought that your towns were there strictly for their benefit. In fact a couple of "snowbirds" from the Pennsylvania and NY areas were overheard (by me) as telling someone who objected to be treated rudely and without respect that "You have your job because of people like us. If it weren't for us coming here and spending money you wouldn't have a job at all!! You're LUCKY we come here! Remember that!!" I was shocked!!!!!!!!! Even if it were true (which it was most certainly NOT) to be so obnoxious that you would lord it over someone else and treat them like dirt because of it was appalling to me!!

I too ran into the regulations and problems with governmental restrictions there. They even attempted to tell us that if we wanted to purchase new appliances and items for our home (ac units, refrigerators, etc) that we must HAVE A PERMIT in that city!!! Ridiculous!!!

But mostly we left because of the sheer hassle of living there. Driving was impossible. Working a mere 20 miles from home could take you 1 1/2 hours to drive there (one way) on I-19. The traffic (and the road rage and/or rude drivers in general) were unbelievable!!!

No thanks!! I want no part of Florida. . . . and am glad to have made it out without any injury to myself or my family.

(DD used to walk a short few blocks to school in high school until the day that a classmate of hers was attacked and raped right there in the bushes on the way to school . . . on the same "path" DD walked daily. Needless to say she never walked to or from school again!!!!!!)

-- wolfie (wolfiequinn@hotmail.com), December 30, 2001.

OH NO!! We're thinking of moving to Florida in a few years. No idea where just someplace warm all the time.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 30, 2001.

I have read all of your opinions, and find them all valid as to your personal experiences. Here's mine.

I was born in Florida, 8th generation white settler on my mother's side, lived my earliest days in Florida. As a military dependent, I lived all around the world during my formative years, finally finishing my last two years of high school inside the D.C. Beltway.

What a shock it was to return to the USA, land of my birth, to discover rascism, bigotry, anti-semitism, northerners & southerners who still hated each other after 100 years, and a general suspicion of anyone who wasn't born and raised next door much less in the same town.

Through the several decades since then the only change has been downhill. Apparently the only people who recognize what a wonderful, unique, and blessed diverse country we live in are those who come from somewhere else.

The State of Florida has been raped, pillaged, burned, and drained since the first white man washed ashore at the feet of my Cherokee ancestors!

Today's politicians, developers, and "foreign influences" (i.e. those from other states who heard it's a paradise) continue the destruction not only of Florida, but also coastal Texas, Alabama, Georgia, North and South Carolina, if it touches the ocean it's a target.

Only when all people turn to God (however they pronounce his name) and love each other in His Name - Only when all people recognize the damage done to our Mother Earth, change their lifestyles, and convince the government to do the same, will ANYTHING change ANYWHERE, ANYTIME IN THE FUTURE.

Don't blame the land for what humans have done to it, in it, or on it. The only foreigners are in your minds and hearts.

-- HarleyinFL (cruisindog@juno.com), January 02, 2002.

Well, there's I-95 and I-75 running north and I-10 running west for folks who want the fastest way out of the state. I tend to prefer the back roads myself such as U.S. 19, 441, 301, and so on. Got some might impressive airports that you can fly out of, still have train service in some areas and you can even sail if you like. Any of you folks who don't want to be in Florida please do avail yourself of any of the available avenues of reaching the egress. While you're at it please take a few thousands others with you.

As for me, well my family on one side or another has been here since before Florida was a state and I reckon I'll stay. Don't care much for South Florida nor high population densities so I don't live in those areas and the closer I get to Disney and the Orlando Never-Never Land the itchier I become to begone from there. My mother, on the other hand, lives outside of St. Cloud (as in not far from Kissimmee and Disney) and hase a nice garden, fruit trees, about four kinds of poultry, goats and so on so even there it can be done if you will put up with the traffic. Too flat for my taste.

If I could undo just one invention in history it would be cheap home air conditioning. Of all the afflictions that Florida has suffered I do believe that one has been the worst. Oh, I don't care for sweating either but we didn't get our first air conditioner until I was a young teenager so I reckon I could learn to live without it again if I had to. What it would do would be to chase off the folks who can't take Florida heat and humidity and I think we'd probably drop a few million in population when they all go back to where they originally came from, mostly north of the southern coastal states. A few rightous hurricanes might do the same thing and perform a public service by eliminating a few thousands condominiums and beach resorts.

They could keep air conditioning in large buildings and such, we'd still get tourists to skin that way. Tourism is actually pretty light on the land in its impact, it's the folks who come to Florida to stay that are the problem. Anything that would encourage them to not do so is for the good. We're the fourth most populous state in the nation know and wouldn't surprise me much to see us go to third before much longer. Nearly every problem we have is directly attributable to that population growth so please don't let me encourage anyone to actually move here.

As for me, they'll carry me out feet first.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), January 04, 2002.

AS a friend of mine says,"If you don't like Florida,there are planes,buses and trains leaving every day."

-- Gina (ginabug2@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

I don't like to talk too much in public about how great Florida is, because I don't want to encourage anyone else to move down here and wreck it! But, I have to say that I don't even recognize the places I am reading about in this post. I live near Tampa, but out in the country. I have plenty of water, and conserve wherever I can to ensure that I will continue to have it for awhile; I NEVER lock my door unless I am leaving town for a week or more; I leave the keys in my truck which is parked out in the yard; today I went to town to buy some irrigation pipe at Hughes' Supply- when the salesman told me they only sell it in 20'lengths (I only needed three 4' pieces) I was mulling over how to get it home in my little truck when the customer next to me offered me some 4' lengths he had in his truck, leftover from a job; while I waited for him to get the pipe the store closed for the day, and as one of the employees left I noticed that he was carrying 4 gorgeous tangerines- he must have seen me looking at them because without saying a word he handed ne one as he walked by (and it was delicious!; a few weeks ago I recieved a notice on a Saturday, after the post office had closed, that they had a package for me- it was a birthday present from the ex-YB. I was leaving town on Sunday and wanted to get the package, since I was going to be away for 3 weeks, so I stopped by the mail carrier's house (he lives across the street) to see if he would go retrieve it for me; my 9 year old nephew routinely rides his bike 2 miles by himself to get to his grandparents' house and has never been hit, run over, or beaten up; and we never had any traffic around here, in fact the closest traffic light is 8 miles from my house, until they started building new subdivisions for the Yankees to move in to. Fortunately I live in a county which still offers agricultural exemptions on property taxes for beekeepers, so as long as I keep bees and sell honey I won't have to worry about the Yankees driving up my property taxes with their demands for sewers, traffic lights, paved roads, etc. I grew up 8 miles from where I now live, and I have seen a lot of changes over the years, few of them good. But, I have also traveled and worked all over the world, and could live virtually anywhere in the world I choose and I have yet to find any place which compares to this little part of paradise. And I figure that if I leave, my farm will just get subdivided and I will be replaced by about 167 Yankees. I agree with Alan- the worst thing that ever happened to this state is air conditioning!

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), January 26, 2002.