Just reading some of the archives and came across a question in which the writer ask if anyone was making a living off their farm and the vast majority of the answers were no. Made me wonder why. Does anyone make their living from their farm and if not why? Is this a problem with space or is it not possible to make a living farming even if you had 300-400 acres? Is it because most homesteaders are starting out small and growing as they have the capital? Do not want to think I have to live within 30 miles of a very large city in order to have a large enough market to sustain myself.

-- Randy Dyess (randy_dyess@hotmail.com), December 26, 2001

Answers

Size probably does make a difference, but in my opinion, neccesity of "society based" conviences such as health care,grid services, and technology comforts are the hinderence of total self sufficiency in the primitive sense. It isn't any shortcoming , just a matter of choices. Also if you live between the two lifestyles, you have more latitude in the event of hard times in either world. You can increase homestead production during economic hard times and scale it back to accomodate a society job.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), December 26, 2001.

We have 120 acres and rent another 100 acres and do not make a living off of this. We would need over 600 acres to make a reasonable living off of farming in this area. The only farmers I know that make money are those that are able to play the gov't game of borrowing against their crops and then selling them to the gov't at a lower price to make the payment and then buying them back at an even lower price and selling them on the market. Don't know all of the details, but one of the locals makes a haul this way.

-- beckie (none@this.time), December 26, 2001.

Randy, I knnw some ladies who have gone the organic herbal/veg garden route who are having some success in rural northern British Columbia. I myself am about to embark on my own project in 2002, and am hoping to be as sufficient as possible. For me the first stage of attaining sufficiency will be an evaluation of my needs, and goals. What am I willing to take on, and let go of in order for me to make an economical swing at the debt that I've placed on myself, as well as the yearly taxes, and expenses. Diversifying, and utilizing my talents, and skills so that I am not bored, but am always being productive. For instance, I carve, make baskets, cordage, gather wild food, make medicine, garden, sketch, create animal habitat, import frog eggs... All of these things either make me money, help me from spending money, produce my health, or the productivity of my land. Plant nut bearing trees, and fruit bearing bushes. These will provide for you when most other things fail. Check out small scale honey. My advice to myelf and to you is to come up with a reasonable financial goal that you can attain, and then see if you can live within that boundry, if not then we may have to be part time farmers on the short term to attain long term sustainability. Just some thoughts. Hope they were helpful.

-- roberto pokachinni (pokachinni@yahoo.com), December 26, 2001.

Thanks for the answers. Part of my planning is deciding what we can live without (alot) and what can be produce on the farm to lower overall living expenses. Just wanted to know if it was a reasonable assumption that after 5-7 years of building the farm and it would support us so the long commutes to jobs would be over some day. Pretty much have decided that I will either move to the central /southeast portion of Oklahoma or stay in the North Texas area. Have always wanted to raise Meat goats but haven't quite decided if I can make enough to live on. My wife grew up in the city and I have been living in Dallas for most of my adult life after growing up on a small farm and moving to a small west texas town. Have thought about moving to 10 or so acres outside of Dallas and having that be a transition place so we can learn (relearn) what we need and become more accustomed to not having a Walmart and Mall a few blocks away.

-- Randy Dyess (randy_dyess@hotmail.com), December 26, 2001.

I could help you with the goat information in Texas. So could Charles Steen, you may want to find him on this site and talk to him. Think about the profit of raising boers. The money in any stock in Texas is purebred registered showstock. Boers or Dairy, or now mini. Yes we all then sell extras into the meat market, 4H showsales, breeding stock, to start new folks in the goat industry etc. But selling strictly for meat, even at 1$ a pound, which you aren't going to get except with on farm sales, is not going to make you a living. I think the reason the goat industry is so women focused, especially the diary goat industry is that it is a profitable 2nd income, but I surely am not paying the family bills day in and day out with milk sales. I made a nice living, made considerably more money than my gal friends who worked outside their home, but I also had a 100% of my time commitment to it, something I am not willing to do anymore. I also have a husband who started his own business, and though he didn't supplement my business, he also paid the family bills.

It also takes you awhile to get your management down, to earn a market and a reputation. The resturant down the road is not going to give you a contract when you start out. The thought that you will fence your 10 acres, fill it with Boers and make a profit the first year isn't going to happen. Without help you are going to end up with culls, have losses, especially of your first kid crop, which is your cash crop and then all the promised sales that the folks you purchased from are telling you about don't materialize. So you sell your first crop at the sale in San Angelo. Putting paper to pen, other than the tax writeoff, and even with depreciation, you haven't made a dime. Most folks only make profits with livestock if they don't pay themselves a wage. YIKES!

We don't have the subsidies that others have, and you have to have years in the goat industry to get any money for startup. There is money to be made in the milk goat industry, selling fluid milk, making cheese etc. But the milk contracts or very hard won, your life revolves only around the farm, and the start up capital is enormous! Farms already selling milk are waiting for places on a contract to open up. With goat meat you are still fighting the 'stinky old goat' syndrome, it is not main stream food, no matter what folks tell you, and until grandma serves it for Sunday dinner, how can you make a profit?

I am not trying to desuade you, I am however telling you that most profitable business first starts with sidejobs, hobbies, etc. that blossom. They only blossom because of skills. Once again with goats, these skills are all dependant upon you finding them, even your local vet can't help with that! Good luck in your venture, we are north of Houston if I can ever help. Visit Goat and Sheep Rancher and Chevon Talk also Texas Boers, on groups.yahoo.com lots of folks doing what you want to do. A small few succesfully. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 26, 2001.

If you are intending on selling any farm grown items, the farm would probably do better on a popular road BETWEEN population centers. Thus, people commuting and / or shopping between the two spots would regularly pass by, and stimulate interest.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), December 27, 2001.

Well, not to discourage you but the fact is that nearly anything you sell in the way of farm products (beef, pork, corn, soybeans, wheat, etc) is going to be priced (no, you don't set the price; you take what is offered or forget it) where it was in the 40's and the equipment you buy is priced at 2001 prices. Yes, it's possible to do this but you need a specialty product, a lot of knowledge, a strong back, a good market base and a HUGE amount of determination. Also, a large family also devoted to this enterprise and willing to sacrifice and supply the labor you need, is a big help. How do I know? We farm several hundred acres and have for years and years. Ain't looking good out there. But, with another income to tide you over and get your start-up costs paid down, it is a better bet.

-- Rosalie (Dee) in IN (deatline@globalsite.net), December 27, 2001.

The way we do things isn't for everyone, but if it fits by all means use what you can! We run a boarding kennels on farm, it generates decent income at a part time pace. Nasty on holidays though! :^) We also have 200 ewes mainly for lamb but also for milk and maybe we'll even do something constructive with the wool someday. The idea of a bed a brekkie or farm vacation isn't completely gone either. Sell what ya got! The experience is everything and city folk think sheep are "safer" than cattle! Well who am I to tell them? We use our milk for making sheep's milk soap, and although very new it's grown very well in the 2 years since we started. The rest of the milk will go to cheese making in a venture with our back door neighbor with thier own on farm cheese plant. Get the idea here? Value added, sell everything and damn (sorry darn)traditional farming which ain't that traditional anyhow. In fact getting back to mixed farming and selling direct has a lot of promise with terrified or alienated grocery shoppers! We sell our lamb direct to the Lebanese or a Lebanese butcher. I prefer to think my lambs are butchered Halal anyways. We farm our 70 owned acres, and rent (last year, it varies) another 200. Plus we buy all our grain so technically we use over 500 acres of crop land. Being close to a major city helps a lot though.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), December 27, 2001.

It CAN be done on a small homestead but you have to be VERY creative in how you earn your money. We are not there yet. One thing that keeps me hanging on to one of my "regular" jobs right now is health insurance. It would be financially impossible for us to buy health insurance on our own right now....the cheapest quote we got was about $650 a month, and that was not even for total coverage.

I work from a home office for the two newspapers I write for; my husband runs a one-man handyman/sub-contractor business from here; I have 25 laying hens and sell some eggs; we have a big garden every year; I raise angora rabbits for the fiber. I have no meat animals because I am a vegetarian so selling animals for meat is out for me.

You CAN do it if you plan well and work HARD! suzy

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

The trick to making it on the homestead is:

1. Having no debt. This includes the mortgage.
2. Diversifying your income. Make it from many sources.
3. Run it like a business, because it is.
4. Work like your life depends on it. It does!

It also helps if you:

• live near a major metropolitan center
• can develop a profitable niche
• have the resources to 'rent out' your lifestyle through the use of rental housing, horse or pet boarding, etc.
• can develop an income stream that is ongoing and does not require your participation.

Hey, while you're wishing, might as well wish big!

-- chuck in md (woah@mission4me.com), December 28, 2001.