Hello All, I have been searching the archives and I can't find my answers, so I will post them and hopefully you all won't be too critical of my ignorance. I have had 2 birthing experiences but for the life of me I can't remember what the PRE symptoms are for when my does are getting ready. They were breed on the 24th of the month 5 months ago, so on Christmas Eve they are ready, RIGHT? LOL What will I be looking for? She has a large bag and is huge, no discharge yet and I am so anxious, Could you give me some good early warning signs? I have friends who are getting one of the babies and are going to camp out here when it gets close, but how do we know when that is and how soon after the babies are born may they take it home with them, they are going to bottle feed it. Okay I will wait for your answers, you all are great and I rely on you so, my books just don't give me the answers that you do. Thanks Karole

-- Karole (Biz3boymom@aol.com), December 18, 2001

Answers

She would be due more around the 21 or 22 I believe if you are figuring 150 days.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), December 18, 2001.

My best advice is to go to http://fiascofarms.com/ and read her site, really excellent photos on what to look for! Here are a few others to help also. Vicki

http://www.nwinfo.net/~milkmaid/

http://www.greatgoats.com/management.html

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Pre-Delivery signs are as follows;

bitter cold, pouring rain and a lost nanny that you will only find in the barn that is farthest from the house.

-- Jason in S.Tenn. (AJAMA5@netscape.net), December 18, 2001.

In our does, the signs are white mucus, a faint sense of preoccupation, getting up and getting down and getting up and getting down and getting up and getting down.....

-- gita (gita@directcon.net), December 18, 2001.

Karole, She could be due any time assuming that the month she was bred in was July, right? Look for a discharge whiteish - Yellowish almost like when in heat. She will go slightly off her feed and lay around and seem impatient. Sometimes she will get up and down maybe even scrathc at her belly. I use a intercom system during this time. The sound is different from usual sounds. I've never had a doe yet not make noises when she kids. As for the Kid I would leave it or them with her at least 3 days they need their Mom's first milk for immunity. The best thing to feed is goat milk if they intend to feed replacer be sure it is for kids. The stuff that is for everything I've had no success with. Lamb's replacer has too high a fat content. Bottle feeding is great but the best way is to use goat's milk. Linda

-- Linda (awesomegodchristianministries@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

There are two ligaments that run off at 45 degree angles from her spine in the rump area, to the pin bones. The pin bones are the ones that jut out a little on either side of the tail when viewed from the rear. Feel a lot of animals, bucks, does, wethers. and try to find the ligaments by running your fingers down the rump, one finger on either side of the spine. The ligamants feel like cords the diameter of a pencil. They can even be mistaken for bones.

Now, once you know where the ligaments are and what they feel like, feel some does that are not due to kid for a few months. Then feel the does that are just a week or two away. As the doe gets closer to kidding, the ligamants get softer. When it is time for her to kid, they will soften up and seem to disappear! If you can feel the ligaments, the doe is not going to kid yet. There are a lot of other signs, but this is the most reliable I have found yet, short of kids actually protruding from the doe, and it will save you a lot of lost sleep.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 18, 2001.

Hi Karole! My suggestion is this: Have Angie and the girls stay in the camper a few nights, send them home since it will seem like Nicky is NEVER going to kid. I guarantee she will start labor that night. It is a Murphy's Law thing. By the way, what am I supposed to bring to the party? I forgot, again. I suppose I should email you about this off the forum.......

-- Jo (mamamia2kids@msn.com), December 18, 2001.

Okay here is the verdict. I went to all the sites Vicki, they were great. One thing keeps coming up in the post and sites, check those tendons, heck!, find those tendons. So I did. On my Nubian not bred, they are just like bones, the Nubian that is bred but not due till the 1st of the year they are alittle less firm. On the Pygmy/Alpine the are much less firm. BUT.....they are still there and I can find them easily. So, what I have gathered is that we have a few more days. I will check the tendon before putting them down at night and then when I feed them in the morning. Thank you for all the good answers. Still don't know what to do about the one that is being taken for bottle feeding, everything I am reading points to health reasons why a baby should stay with the mother, have you found this to be true? Is the milk replacer adaquate? Oh the questions just never stop, maybe after I do this a million times it will come easier. Hopefully! OH Jo~cups!! LOL Karole

-- Karole (Biz3boymom@aol.com), December 19, 2001.

My kids nurse, but what I've read is that if you want to bottle, you need to milk out that colustrum, heat treat it, and feed it to the babies. Maybe someone with experience at this can offer you tips.

-- mary (mlg@aol.com), December 19, 2001.

Karole, if you think of it this way, the thurl, which are the muscles/ligiments that run down both sides of the backbone above the tail, are used to wag the tail. Once she has no control of the tail and it sort of flops, you can also put your hands around the tail bone, since they are no longer there, she can kid, before then she can't.

If you do not test for CAE or worry about it, just milk out a 22 ounce plastic soda bottle full of colostrum, once she has drank it, and it should be in less than 12 hours, have them put her onto 16 ounces 3 times a day of warmed to 100 degrees, Vitamin D Grocery store milk, tell them to wean her in 12 weeks, and to start giving her some grain and hay at about 3 weeks. Grocery store milk, unless they are going to buy goats milk from you, is much better than milk replacers. Folks who say their kids are better, bigger etc. on mom than on bottles, just don't have their management down right. Most folks who purchase kids from me, always comment on how much larger they are than their own stock who is nursed. Then get your friends information on kid rearing, disbudding, castrating, vaccinations, cocci and worms! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.