I have the good fortune to live in Green County, Wisconsin, where the largest town has a population of approximately 10,000, and a good percentage of the land is rolling farmland.

Our school district taxes (different county) went up over 30% last year, and the county taxes went up 21% this year.

We have 20 acres (agricultural) and a 2300 sq. ft. house built (by ourselves) in 94/95.

Our property tax bill came in the mail today. Drum roll, please.....just shy of $5,700.

So, do I win a prize??

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 11, 2001

Answers

A prize for paying too much....;)

For 22 acres, a new shed, a very modern home (new addition, new siding, hottub, etc.), we pay less than $300 a year in real estate property tax. Auto tax is separate. I think I paid under $60 for my 93 Subaru last year. Income tax is separate yet, based on earnings. Sales tax is 6%. Oh, and we aren't registered under the farm use or homestead exemption provisions.

West Virginia is the place to be!

-- Anne (Healthytouch101@wildmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Oh, I should add that I pay a $35 fee to the local volunteer fire department for a fire marker.

-- Anne (Healthytouch101@wildmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Holy Moly! I don't envy you one bit! Property taxes in Texas are next to nothing if you have agriculture exempt land.

In Arizona, more was paid. My ranch had 40 acres, 3,000 square foot home, all kinds of out buildings, etc. Taxes were $900/year.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), December 11, 2001.

We paid $156 this last year, for 68 acres. We just sold some acreage, so it should be less next year, I gather.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), December 12, 2001.

I don't get it- do you want the prize for the HIGHEST taxes paid? Hmmm... in Hillsborough County, Florida (Tampa), I have 15 acres with an old 800 sq ft frame house and 3-stall slab barn; a total of 4 wells; one extra septic tank, phone line, and power pole for a mobile home that was here temporarily; a 2000 sq ft custom home (10 years old); a 2000 sq ft barn; fenced pasture; pond; and a 12'x12' honey house. Tax bill was just under $6000, but thanks to my bees I have an ag exemption which reduced my tax bill to somewhere around $2400.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), December 12, 2001.

Another reason why I would not live anywhere else. our House, seperate 1600 sq foot Summerkitchen and sewing room, 3600 sq foot metal shop, 1200 sq foot storage building, and a 15X50 shed partial pasture and fields rest wooded 100 acres $296 per year. Just don't understand why people would live where taxes are as high as some posted here

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), December 12, 2001.

David, (and any subsequent posters) What part of the country / state are you in? We are in W. Michigan, near Grand Rapids, on 10 acres of land, 1200 sq. foot house, two barns, open pasture, a little bit of woods in the back, zoned rural residential (a variation of ag. zoning, livestock permitted). Our property taxes are $1700 a year. The job market is very good here, but it's crowded. We bought 10 years ago and you'd be hard pressed to beat the developers for any sizeable parcel which, of course, they will cut up into as many lots as possible for re-sale. We'd love to move to a less-populated area, but aging parents keep us here, for now . . . -- Cheers, Renee M.

-- Renee Martin (icehorse@altelco.net), December 12, 2001.

I live in Alaska.....oh, hell, I live in *unincorporated* Alaska....

'Nuff said?

-- Audie (paxtours@alaska.net), December 12, 2001.

Elizabeth, if you live in that house you should be getting the Florida homestead exemption (exempting an additional $25,000). I lived in Pasco County in the city limits of New Port Richey and only paid $780 on a property value of $110,000 which included city taxes. Just to show you how high the taxes in Hillsborough County really are! In Hillsborough our house would be valued somewhere around $200,000. We just moved to Virginia in August. Husband worked in Tampa and we just got tired of all that rat race and traffic. Gave up our total of $92,000 a year jobs (plus benefits) and said the heck with it all and bought a little farm in the middle of nowhere. Well, not exactly nowhere -- 10 miles to a town that has hospital, Walmart, Kmart and all the usual stores. I retired (woohoo) -- we love it!!!!!!!!!!!

Our taxes for 10 acres, fully restored 75 yr old 10 room house, 2 barns, various outbuildings, 2 chicken coops, 3 car garage, stream, pond, new septic system, new well, capped spring, 2 heat sources, fully fenced, and orchard in our mountains of SW Virginia homestead are $155.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), December 12, 2001.

12 acres, house, barns, in Kentucky, about 200 a year for taxes.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), December 12, 2001.

DAG!!! Thats a lot for taxes. But when we lived in western NYS we also had VERY high property taxes, every yr we were billed for County, school and town taxes. The yr we moved our 1 acre farm was re assessed and we got the bill before we sold the farm, about fell over, it was $4,000 and it wasn't any fantastic piece either! When we moved to VA our property taxes for 35 acres was 100.00 a yr and w eonly paid the county. Here is AR we also pay just one tax and for 23 acres, farm, buildings which include a very lovely shop, sawmill and house we pay 300.00 a yr.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), December 12, 2001.

Taxes in NY state are extremely high and our village is the highest around here. For a 95 year old home valued at about $80,000 on a 1/2 acre village lot (BIG drumroll please) we pay about $3300 a year including school taxes!!

-- Cindy in NY (cjpopeck@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 2001.

OK once again my farm is for sale .I am in NY state on 140 a house and barn are nothing special .I pay 1300.00 a year .Start sending in offers any time .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

I'm very glad that I can't top $5700! but for our property: 1800 sq. foot log cabin built in 1985, large older dairy barn (excellent shape), and 113 acres of land the taxes are a bit over $4000.00 per year (school and county combined we're outside the village). Our farm is tax assessed at $158,000, which is more than we paid for it.

NYS has a tax assesment grievance in May and I'm going to be there with paperwork in hand. I feel we pay way to much as the land is zoned ag.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), December 12, 2001.

My nephew lives in the City of Milwaukee. Small front yard, houses on either side are about 8' apart, small back yard with one-car garage. Their property tax is over $7,000 a year.

I have a bit over 900 acres in West-central TN. Zoned agricultural or green zone (woods). Tax bill will be $1,800 or $2.00 per acre.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 12, 2001.

We are also in NYS, have 106 acres, house, barn, etc. Total taxes, land and school, under $550/year. Polly

-- (jserg45@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

That is a lot !!!! I live in Indiana on 118ac. farm 3 years ago we added just a 24by 40 modular home on a full basment the home its self added $800.00 a year to are taxes and in indiana in 2003 the taxs are to jump by 32% what can folks do about this Tax revolt or what? I love where I live but when a person trys to make a living off the land there seems not to be enough to live on by the time you get done paying taxs and hospital insurance there is nothing left. Indiana Country friend Jack Bunyard

-- Jack Bunyard (bunyard@cnz.com), December 12, 2001.

Wow what a range of taxes! 5700 American would be over 7000 Canadian! I'm in Ottawa Canada's capital (over 1 million people), 70 acres 2 houses, 1/2 acre zoned comercial with a 5000 sqr ft building, 2 barns (2400 sqr ft and over 5000 on the other) a shop (1500 sqr ft) and a small pony stable. 10 minutes from built up city (shopping etc), 15 to a hospital, full city police and fire, garbage/recycle, more paved every year than I'd like............ you get the idea. 2300 for everything and that's down from last year. That'd be 1500 or so American? Now I didn't think it was "bad" but thanks to you guys I know it's pretty darned good. Take Care

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), December 12, 2001.

Wow, you folks are crazy to live where the taxes are so high ;-)!!!

We have 104 acres, big old nice farmhouse, 4 barns, a machine shed, and a large two floor wagon shed chicken house combo, over a mile of frontage, and pay 600 a year.

And yes, there are plenty of jobs, we are within commuting distance of Wheeling, Cambridge, St.Clairsville, and even Morgantown,WV. But the best part is that our entire large county has less than 20,000 people!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), December 12, 2001.

Some things ARE worth the high taxes...like the fact that our families on both sides live within an hour's drive of our home. Therefore, our children are being raised by us with the help of extended family (who also helped to build our house), and that is very important to us.

However, the taxes are now twice what we estimated them to be when we bought the land (and a relatively large percentage of our one income.) So, we walk around feeling a bit sick when the bill arrives.

Funny someone mentioned the fire department...We were struck by lightning last year and were billed $300 by the fire department. Our taxes are merely for the privilege of having a fire department. If you need to USE it, then you have to pay a user's fee (which went up this year.) I thought it odd when I called 911, and they ASKED me if I wanted a truck sent. Well, duh!

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 12, 2001.

That is a very high tax bill. That would consume a huge percentage of our income! I think "something" needs to be done about the increasing burden on property owners, or there will be a revolt. Only property owners should be allowed to vote on property tax issues!

In our area we have a lot of people who live in subsidized housing, which I am glad is available. But when a property tax issue comes up, like a big, expensive, new school, they all vote YES en masse. They are very vocal about letting you know they did, because it won't cost them anything!

-- Burdened Property Owner (somewhere@outthere.com), December 12, 2001.

Well, well...you've hit a sore point with me, Burdened Property Owner.

The year before last, our school district (town pop. 4000), voted to build a new high school and do renovations to the tune of $23 million. It was actually the elementary school that needed expansion, but the powers that be convinced the voters to build a new high school instead. (Certain folks equate an exorbitant new school with a better education.) By the way, the nearest, same-size town 20 miles south of us built a new high school for $9 million.

At the time, I thought, too, that only the property owners ought to be allowed to vote. The vote raised my taxes by $1000.

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 12, 2001.

I guess here in souther IA I fall about in the middle. We pay about $2,000/yr for 120 acres, big Victorian house & 2 barns and we feel we pay too much. If we were one county SW of us we would be paying about half that much and we don't get any additional services for the extra money we pay.

-- beckie (none@this.time), December 12, 2001.

SHARON - in Wisconsin:

That's strange about your getting billed from the fire dep't. Do you know if yours is a municipal or a volunteer department?

Actually, in a political/economic sense, I am in favor of their charging for service rendered (particularly when it happens to the other person......). User fees / usage fees are the only responsible way that exists to keep local, state and national governments *from* raising, and raising, and raising taxes.

As I one-lined farther up this thread, I pay NO taxes. On the other hand, there also is in this non-existent community no police, no fire, no health service of any kind, no school, no anything unless you create it yourself. Nearest of any of that is almost 100 miles away. Not for everyone; fine for certain kinds.

-- Audie (paxtours@alaska.net), December 12, 2001.

Northern Nebraska, 2001 taxes $975 for 160 acres pasture and trees and a 1500 sq. ft. modular. Went up about $200 this year. Only about 1000 people in my county.

-- bruce (rural@inebraska.com), December 12, 2001.

For all of you with relatively low taxes I have a question.

Does your tax bill include school tax or is that collected some other way in your area?

The area that I previously lived in had a very high tax rate for schools. One year it was over 80% of the tax bill. After that I knew why the township could only patch roads and not replace them. They had about nothing to work with.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

OK I am in WV also and live in a basic ranch 3 bedrooms and 2 baths 15yrs old on 63 very nice acres. 3 ponds 2 barns and a chicken house. A cement garage detatched from the house that is 2yrs old. the orginal farm house still on land. Free gas and our taxes for last year were $396 and it was not farm assist. It was homestead because the guy who lived here brfore us was old but still maybe $500 the most it wuld be. Now we do not have school tax and our schools are pretty good. We are 15 miles from town basically 2 roads to get there.

When I lived in NJ our house was 1600sq ft and we had a 100 x 100 lot and our taxes were $2700 a year. The schools were no better in my opinion.

The big problem I have with WV is evrything is taxed cloths and food in NJ neither one was taxed so does it add up???

I still would never move from my paradise for all the money!!

Good old WV

-- sonneyacres (jtgt12@ntelos.net), December 12, 2001.

Taxes are $578 a year here on our property. 1 1/2 acres, 2 story farmhouse, barn,and outbuildings. This includes school taxes.

In this area, all the schools are yammering for new buildings. They are always saying it would cost more to fix than to replace. Why hasn't maintanance been ongoing? When my son was still attending p.s. last year a bathroom sink fell off the wall and badly cut a girl's arm. Some of these schools are only 30-40 years old. They manage to maintain buildings in Europe that are hundreds of years old. It must be the American mentality, that new is always better.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), December 12, 2001.

Sharon, you're scaring the hell out of me! As I type this, we are building a house (2700 SF finished, 4200 SF total and new 100 SF pole barn) on one of those rolling hills on our 20 acres of Green County, WI. We understood the taxes would be less than Dane County (home to the capital--Madison). We couldn't afford Dane County land either ($10k to $50k per acre) so we bought south of Dane in Green.

What the hell is Green County do with all that money? Pave the rolling hills?! What can we do? Is there an ag exemption? We will be raising goats and the land is in alfalfa.

-- Steve in So. WI (Alpine1@prodigy.net), December 12, 2001.

That's 1000 SF pole barn.

-- Steve in So. WI (Apline1@prodigy.net), December 12, 2001.

We are in upstate NY,Rensselaer County...a hair under three acres. Don't know exactly, but the combined property and school taxes are about $3,100 a year. Some one mentioned car insurance...3 vehicles, good driver discounts, multiple car discount, no collision...a bit over $1,100 per year. Ridiculous :-(

-- Cheri Asprion (t.asprion@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 2001.

Forgot to add it's a three-bdroom, with 2 garages and 2 sheds (not counting 2 chicken houses).

-- Cheri Asprion (t.asprion@worldnet.att.net), December 12, 2001.

I live in South West WI, and am wondering if our taxes are going up to the outrageous levels that Sharon's has. We just found out yesterday the outcome of a controversial school referendum that was tied on election night (same time as the presidential election) and ended up in court. To make a long story short, a judge ruled that the $2.25 million school referendum has passed (by 1 vote), and our already high taxes will be going up even higher.

We moved here to be closer to family and because we love the country. We are trying to build a homestead and plan to live here the rest of our lives, but the possiblity of never-ending tax increases makes me fearful of the future. How can we even prepare ahead for taxes when no one can tell us how high they will go? I am wondering if we'll have to sell and start over somewhere else with more affordable property taxes, but it would break my heart to do that, I love it here.

-- Jane (ladjane@mwt.net), December 12, 2001.

Yeah, taxes in WI are HORRID--ours went from 500 to 1600 last year, and we have 5 crummy acres, 1700 sqft house, and a tiny worthless shed. Our town in Waupaca county is almost unicorporated and has nothing but a post office(and the few necessary taverns :-() We were seriously thinking of moving to MO, but DH finally decided (last night, in fact) that family is too precious. All of ours live nearby and need us, and we certainly can't bring them with! So here we stay, and deal with the taxes, I guess.

-- Tina in WI (jtdurie@frontiernet.net), December 12, 2001.

Oops, I was wrong. Just opened my bill. It's not 200, it's 144. Thank you Lord.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), December 12, 2001.

Bob in WI, 89.00 of the total 144.00 is school taxes.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), December 12, 2001.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Steve.

Our 20 acres are in alalfa, too, and the land value until last year was twice what we paid for it because it was considered developmental property. Just last year, though, it was devalued to what we paid, because it's being used for agricultural purposes. (Of course, they didn't refund any taxes for the years it was overpaid!!)

On the bright side, my brother-in-law is in Green County with a house the size of yours (4200 SF), and his taxes are slightly less than ours. It all depends on which rolling hill you decided to put your house on...

There are only property tax breaks for those who earn less than $20,000/yr or so.

Something you might want to look into are the land conservation and forestry programs that will either pay you to take your land out of production (if you qualify) or reduce your taxes to $2/acre. We're considering the foresty route. Your house will be the lion share of your taxes, though, so I don't know how much that would help.

Good luck!!

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 12, 2001.

After reading everyone else's rate of taxation, I'm not feeling as bad as I used to. Like you, I feel we pay too much for property tax. The reason is that here in Southern CA the price of any real estate is grossly inflated. You struggle to pay the mortgage and then the tax bill comes. We have a bit over 2 acres zoned Ag/residential in the county, 1700 SF house, 800 SF shop. Taxes are $2400/year. And the reason they are this low is due to the controversial Prop 13 passed by CA voters in 1978 which limited tax increases to 2% a year max. So now the schools are getting older and the local governments can't find the money to repair/build. So now each election carries a School bond issue. They raise so many million $ to repair schools thru a bond issue and it gets repaid over 10-20 years....yes, by those of us who pay real estate taxes in that school district. But it is removed from your tax bill after the bond is retired. Still, 20 years may as well be a permanent part of the tax bill. When I calculate our cost of existing on this property after retirement, with no mortgage payment, I figure we still need to work one full time job. I guess the notion of retirement is a myth. We've all hear the stories of having to sell the farm to pay the taxes. Unless we are willing to move to one of the states mentioned above in other responses, where tax bills are lower, we better not put our workclothes away just yet.

-- DWIGHT (SUMMIT1762@AOL.COM), December 12, 2001.

We live in SE Mich in the fastest growing county around and 3 bedroom ranch on 1 acre with 3 car garage our taxes were $2,600. Our house up- north in the thumb is a 2 bedroom with 2-1/2 car garage on 75' by 264' lot my taxes are $350.00. Taxes might be high but so are the wages so I guess it all equals out.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), December 12, 2001.

Oh goodness, I would about die if I had a tax bill like yours, but my taxes in Georgia for 32 acres, a barn/house in progress, one shed, and one small outbuilding is $180 per year. The ONLY way it is this cheap is I had to put the property in a conservation program for ten years at a time. No development, no business on property, no subdividing, etc. The reason I had to do that is my taxes went from $54.00 in 1986 to over $900 four years later. And the assessors were going to raise them even higher. So to combat that, I had to put the land in a conservation program, which I am about to renew for another ten years.

But $5700 a year is way too much...

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), December 12, 2001.

South Dakota - 59 acres with 2 story 4 bedroom farmhouse built in 1923, large dairy barn, hog barn, two garages and two chicken coops on paved county road 3/4 miles from small town - taxes are $760 per year.

-- JoAnn in SD (jonehls@excite.com), December 12, 2001.

tell you one thing for sure im not going to bitch about my taxes enymore.wow i cant belive some of youalls. Bob se,ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), December 12, 2001.

We are in Lafayette County Wisconsin, right next door to Sharon. One big house, one little house, a new metal building, 6.5 acres, and ours is $1,550. Why is ours so low I wonder????

-- Jane in Wisconsin (autumnwindfarm@yahoo.com), December 12, 2001.

Wow Tina from WI, We must live pretty close to each other. We live in Waushara County, about 13 miles south of Waupaca. I don't know what our tax bill is, to be perfectly honest. I DO know it is a heck of a lot less than living in the city! I am willing to bet that the small ranch house we lived in in Appleton now has taxes of at least $4000!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Taxes on my 12 acres of land with the agricultural exemption in Texas: $8.52 for 2001. This includes county, school and local hospital district tax. I really can't complain. Larry

-- larry (karlog@rocketmail.com), December 12, 2001.

OK, here goes ---- 1 acre, all fenced, 5 br house, 2000 sq ft built in 1870, yearly taxes $68. Yes the school stimks, but I'm homeschooling anyway.

-- carol (chamberscarol@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Hubby and I were just discussing yesterday how no one really owns their home, just rents. Try and not pay the land taxes and see how far home ownership gets you. Anyway we pay $550 a year approx in Canadian dollars. I guess that would be a bit shy of 400 US. We have a volunteer fire dept here and that also does include school tax. I got hit up this week-end for a dog tax bill of $8/ per dog nuetered I think it's more if they aren't fixed, and the local school also does do a fair bit of fundraising through the Home and School. I personally think that there should be a complete tax exemption for senior citizens. I hate to hear about people living in a home all their life but the community grows around them and they can't afford to stay. How awful. I hope it's not me someday.

-- Terri in NS (terri@tallships.ca), December 13, 2001.

It sounds like you should attend a county board meeting, or try to get a copy of the county budget. You might be living in an area with not too many people, but a lot of things that need paying for. When I lived in Seattle there was no income tax, but the property taxes were kinda high to make up for it. Maybe you have a lot of people in the county with very low incomes, they need the money to come from somewhere. Talk with your neighbors to see if there wasn't an error in the assessors office. Save all year for the tax bill. As for schools, many areas build schools, then when lean years come by, the budget cutters look only at the short run and take out the long term things, like building maintenance. Then 20 years down the road they have schools falling around their heads. In my area the biggest problem in the school age population is increasing so fast we have several schools that are half portable buildings, and the no-tax people still don't want to spend money on schools.

-- Joan Murray (alandjoan@juno.com), December 13, 2001.

School taxes aside, which are approximately 50% of our tax bill ($2600), the county and local taxes aren't too awful unreasonable.

Our assessment is dead on, so that's not the problem.

The "problem" is this...

My township is comprised of a small town (pop 1000), and the remainder is farmland owned by dairy farmers who are going out of business left and right.

In surrounding townships, dairy farmers are selling their land to developers who come in and build country subdivisions, thereby increasing the tax base and decreasing the tax load.

Our elected township officials have ordinances in place to prevent farmland subdivision. Farmers can only divide the original farmand into so many slices, and that's it forever after. Subsequent owners cannot divide the land further.

So, the tax base is made up primarily of low income dairy farmers, and the ordinances against subdivision keep higher income landowners out.

Personally, I'm glad the ordinance exists. The neighbor to our south had mentioned selling the field next to us to a developer, before she learned of the ordinance. The ordinance kept her from doing it.

The dairy farmer across the road is close to losing the family farm. (He's trying to sell a 5-acre parcel for, this is heresay, $70,000. Any takers?) I don't want a subdivision across the road.

So, if I have a real beef, it's with the school taxes, more so than with the county and local taxes.

The lesson to be learned by those wanting to homestead in Wisconsin is to get the mill rate for the school district taxes, and to see if township ordinances exist that may result in a higher mill rate.

Jane, to answer your question...I'm guessing location, location, location. Madison is 40 miles to the north, and I'm beginning to think that our surrounding area is soon to be considered a bedroom community.

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), December 14, 2001.

About 5 years ago I lived in Kentucky and had a beautiful, brand new 2500 sq. ft. cape on rolling 6 acres. Total tax bill? $800.

I moved back to my birth state of NY(western) and settled in a small village on Lake Ontario. Bought an old Civil War era farmhouse of about 3500 sq. ft with a few out buildings and taxes are only $1800. Why so cheap in NY? Looking out the front window I see the smokestack of a large coal burning power plant.

I have 54 acres waiting for me in the next few years in the same area that I plan to homestead. I'm 43 and I don't plan on working past 46. 20 years as a Computer geek and I can't wait to rid myself of the " burden" of modern life.

-- Brian Roth (broth@heathers.stdio.com), December 17, 2001.

hi sharon, we are now living in green county in a broken down 150 year old farm house with 11 acres. we remolded some in house so we could live in it but because they couldn't get us on the house they raise our land $4,500.00 assesstment per acre. i say we( residents of green county) should get together,go to county board and demand accountability on why our taxes are so damn high.

-- judy (evergreens2000@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

hello sharon, we are now living in green county in a broken down 150 year old farm house with 11 acres. we did some work on the house so we could live in it but because they couldn't get us on the house they raise our land $4,500.00 assesstment per acre. i say we( residents of green county) should get together,go to county board and demand accountability on why our taxes are so damn high.

-- judy (evergreens2000@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

Interesting thread, though taxes are just one part of the cost of living picture. For example, fire departments were mentioned, and volunteer fire departments get rated as to staffing, equipment, response time, etc. The higher the rating, the lower your home insurance premiums are. Most people vote for the fire levies because of this.

Levies and other assessments are another reason to look at poverty levels within a community before moving. If the bulk of the people in the community aren't paying taxes, they will vote for everything in sight. Any welfare or school program is going to be fully funded, but not by them.

However, my greatest gripe is with basing taxes on assessed value in the first place, which when you get right down to it is only someone's OPINION. And then all of your assessments and levies are based on that. I thought we were all supposed be treated equally under the law. If your neighbor pays x in taxes and you pay xxx are you going to get better government service? Of course not, so why should you pay more than your neighbors for services such as schools, libraries, fire, etc.?

I also am really ticked off that new apartments get hit with much lower school impact fees (sometimes as low as half the amount). 3 kids in a house, or 3 kids from an apartment, they are still going to take up space in the classroom, so why the lower apartment fees?

I also agree that only property owners should vote, and that if you own another place out of town that you're renting out until you can retire there, you should be able to at least vote on any local officials, laws, or tax proposals (obviously not state/national officials, only one vote for those). Just a thought.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 12, 2002.

hello every one... I have a question to you guys... do you think that rich people should pay more tax than poor people???? I hope so...

-- Ken Sato (Mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 21, 2002.

I think every one should pay the same percentage, rich or not, land owner or not. Other wise the ones paying less are leaching off the ones who work to have something, to pay taxes on.

-- Thumper/inOKC (slrldr@yahoo.com), February 21, 2002.

Then maybe poor people will be homeless...

-- Ken Sato (Mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 21, 2002.

My question would be: How do you determine who is rich and who is poor?

I'm going to go a little more in depth with why I feel our taxes are so outrageous.

My husband and I both left home at 18 with meager savings. Each of us paid for our own educations (At times, I worked full-time, went to school full-time, and slept four hours a night, while maintaining a 4.0 that got me the scholarships that I dearly needed...I remember budgeting for a 25 cent pack of gum!!)

I was 21 when my husband and I began sharing a household. We were savers, and no matter how rough it got, we always saved some money...mostly trying to live off of one income while saving the other (even though it meant living in a cockroach infested apartment at one point...)

When it came time to find a home and start a family, we had a good savings to draw upon. We bought our 20 acres and spent 1-1/2 years building our house with the help of family.

The results are beautiful, and I would bet that a lot of people think that we are rich.

We worked HARD. We SAVED. We did things the right way.

Look what it has gotten us: property taxes that are practically the size of our mortgage. And we can't complain, because all those people who perceive that we are rich, don't want to hear about it. They don't want to know about all the hard work it took us to get where we are at. They see the end result and think we deserve what we got.

Can we stay in our dream home? I don't know. It's certainly threatening our one income existence (technically, though, my husband works two jobs).

The story's not over either. Wisconsin has a huge budget shortfall. The assessor is coming around again this year, and we'll be taxed on the two tiny outbuildings we built with FREE material and our labor.

Our income is being taxed, our property is being taxed, and so is our ingenuity and hard work. Where is that a part of the American Dream?

Again, how do you determine who is rich and who is poor?

(P.S. I just want to say that I really, really admire all of you who have built your homesteads without the need or desire for a mortgage. Had we done that, we wouldn't be in the position we are today.)

-- Sharon/WI (pinnow@inwave.com), February 22, 2002.

Problems with taxes are also in the collection of them (enforcement) and in negotiating all of the myriad deductions and tax laws. Should all deductions be done away with? One friend of mine who earns a decent living has refinanced the house (which he'd been paying off early), because he was losing some of his other deductions (not rich, but where the adjusted gross income limits were coming into play--the upper limits have not been adjusted for inflation) because that was a good deduction for him. But every time you mention "no deductions" every special interest group in the country (children, seniors, banks, etc.) raises objections to it.

Some taxes are unfair because they don't seem to be based on reality (see my above post on school and fire levies, for example). I realize that a community needs to pay money to have fire services available, but I think those should be flat rate per property, not based on value at all. As for schools, same thing. School buildings are often used for other classroom education (such as first aid, community college sattelite campuses), as well as being available for clubs and other organizations to meet in. Not to mention that people walk the track, use the tennis courts and so on, so I don't mind that taxes go to that, either, as long as they're flat rate and not based on value.

I think everyone's best bet is to get informed and vote. Write to your elected officials and explain why you don't vote for this or that. But at the very least, vote.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 22, 2002.

To Sharon, my opinion is that poor people have no money, lost there work, but has a house (only one) and I had a person like that now he is homeless and i don't know were he went to but the reason he got homeless is the tax there were very high and I think all the country has to make rich people pay more tax than poor people. Another hand, rich people have a wife, money, jobs, nice clean houses then poor people might think that it is not fair to pay the same amount of money than every one. Sharon sorry to say this but what is you were the person like my friend? how will you feel?

-- Ken Sato (mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

Ken, I bet a lot of people are/were like your friend, but don't let it become a permanent situation. They get out of it, live with a friend or family 'til they get another job/home. Also, it is a sad fact that most people don't save for a rainy day (illness, job loss, etc.) and are one paycheck away from the street anyway.

And, ask anyone who's lost their home in a fire. It is not the worst thing the world--you can always get another house (another job, etc.).

Sharon's latest post clearly states that she and hubby worked and saved for what they have. Your post states that people should be punished for that by paying higher taxes. Why?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 25, 2002.

I am trying to say that how do other people feel when it happens to them and how will they solve the problem. I had my own house but the tax were high and I lost everything but a good thing that I am living with my parents again, and if you are trying to ask then why did my friend didn't go back at his parents house, it's a bad thing that he has no parents and also he is loosing friends and I know how that feels. I am just asking how will you guys feel if it happens to you!

-- Ken Sato (mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 25, 2002.

What I'm saying is you get on with life, which might include moving to an area with lower taxes, or shared housing, or renting out a bedroom or two for extra money so you don't lose the house, or doing elder- or daycare. Live in your car. Have a backup plan, in other words.

Was this house completely paid off? If it was, even a minimum wage job would have paid the taxes/utilities, etc., or, again, renting out a room or two. Also, if your friend was losing his "friends" over this, I can tell you they weren't really friends. Real friends would have taken him in and said, "Look, if you can clean house, feed animals (in other words, help out), etc. you're welcome to stay with us 'til you get back on your feet again."

And, if you grew up poor, you're not afraid of being poor again, and in many cases it never ever occurred to you that you were poor. It is a temporary situation, not a permanent one.

Please forgive me, but you sound awfully young (as in not old enough to have relatives who lived through the depression and passed on their stories) and might have never known even marginally bad times before. For example, I know people who think it is a tragedy when their TV stops working, while there are people on this forum who deliberately do without TV. All a matter of perspective and priorities.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 25, 2002.

Hey think that he was at his families house or friends house. he will get money and a job easily, but what if he went somewhere far and no one will not no were he is then what should he do? And think deeply in your heart... what if this exact thing happens to you? what if that you have no parents, went very far were your friends wouldn't know and what if you didn't have a car and some rented house? sorry to say it over and over but what if this thing happens to you? Some of you are not answering my questions deeply... next time I want you guys to answer and give your opinion of (what is this happens to you)?

-- Ken Sato (Mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

Under the constitution, we have the right to pursue happiness, not necessarily to actually catch it. You can either make things happen, or let them happen to you. You can turn lemons into lemonade or stay a lemon. You can choose where and how you want to live, this is a free country. Even you and your friend (and most homeless people) are still living better than 75% of the rest of the world. You obviously have access to a computer, so life can't be all bad.

I did answer your question, such as it was, however, you didn't answer any of mine. I can only surmise that perhaps you (from what you said), really couldn't afford the house you bought, but bought it anyway, so when the job market tanked, there went the house. That's NOT society's fault, or the government's fault, by the way.

A lot of people wait YEARS before buying a home, and some never get there. That doesn't mean they can't be happy living with family, living with roommates, etc. If you have trouble meeting people, volunteer in various fields of interest or at your church, and believe me, you will easily make some friends.

You sound like you got your house very early in life with no sacrifices, and now you want sympathy when you had to get rid of it. It's only a building, get over it.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 27, 2002.

if you think that I can get over with my building, then why should I be here? I can't get over with my building because they have all the memories I had: fun ones, sad ones, etc... the reason I bought my house is to get away from my father. I never got my freedom when I was a kid and I had stress. And I think the government have to change the law because it's getting worser for me. why do they have to take tax in the first place? If they are taking tax for schools, I think it is bad. I think that all the schools should be free.

-- Ken Sato (mabodofu60@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

Instead of buying a house, what might have been a better way of spending the money was on counseling. Also a good dose of "I wept that I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet" might be in order. There are always going to be people who are better off than you and worse off than you--that's life. Part of growing up is getting past the bad things (not necessarily forgetting them), and learning from them. Why are you so special that the government has to change its laws just for you, by the way?

As to taxes, it all depends upon where you live and how much money you make. As this entire thread pointed out, there are expensive places to live and inexpensive places to live. Nothing is free, either you pay through taxes or you pay outright. Schools would be much more expensive than they are if they weren't subsidized through taxes. Same with other government services, or they would have to be completely volunteer, every man/woman jack of you required to put in so many hours on duty. How many would want to do that? And there would still have to be a mechanism in place to collect monies for equipment, land to store it on, etc. Since we're a democracy, to me it seems only fair to charge everyone equally (within reason--you still need to charge enough to cover people who legitimately cannot pay due to handicap (not "I don't want to work types")) rather than on assessed value.

Even a flat tax (say 5% of whatever you make) would be fairer than what we have now.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 27, 2002.

Hey! who ever said that I want the government to make the tax lower for me!! I want to say that the government should make the tax lower for everyone!! Another thing, I think that all the school should be free.

-- Ken Sato (mabodofu60@hotmail.com), March 01, 2002.