Hi all..

Just thought I would ponder aloud a bit. I live in the country, but it is also a resort area. And now that the influx of leafpeepers are gone, we are gearing up for the skiers. Because I now work at a bakery, I get my brain picked on a regular basis by tourists who dream.

The top dreams are..

Opening a bed and breakfast [a la Newhart]. I know more people who have been successful Larry, Daryl and Daryls than Newharts.

Opening an antique store. People here who have done that for years spend a lot of time at the dump, at auctions, at tag sales. It's not an easy way to make a living. Storage and cash flow being two problems.

Opening a little cafe. Bwahaha. You will end up working 90 hours a week. And you will fire your help when it's 'off-season'. Thus being labelled as a lousy employer, making it harder to fill positions again in the future. Oh, and rents with good traffic are exhorbitant.

Living in the country is great. But, it ain't easy.

-- pc (jasper2@doglover.com), December 07, 2001

Answers

Which leads one to the logical conclusion that if you are going to live in the country, avoid resort areas like the plague.

-- bruce (rural@inebraska.com), December 07, 2001.

Learn to do what you like and make money at it! There are many things you can do in the country that no one else can do. Get the brain to working and use the tourist season for your profit. Make the best salsa or pickalilly or whatever and market it. You have the best of two worlds. Jim

-- Jim Raymond (jimr@terraworld.net), December 07, 2001.

PC, could you perhaps be saying that the tourists are a pain in the but-ski [ass]??......I fully agree!!...and with an attitude like "my fecal matter don't stink"

Where abouts you be? I'm not to far from some big ski complexes...there is huge money their!

-- Jim-mi (hartalteng@voyager.net), December 07, 2001.

Interesting responses.

I first bought in this area 15 years ago. For a few reasons. One, I am a skier and I like the area. Two, where I bought was a great investment..which I sold and now have another potential great investment. I figured in a resort area the roads would be well maintained. They are. There is now a doctor in town. Hospital an hour away. There are just a few more services that make me feel safe here than if I was a half hour away in the back back woods.

Newbies laugh at folks who make and sell jams, jellies, knickknacks, etc.. Then they open their Newhart bed and breakfast and go belly up after a couple of years..and then they scramble like most everybody else.

I don't dislike tourists, in general. I've lived in major cities in the US and abroad. I try to relate to everybody.

One reason I babbled on about this was because of the post about log home building. That is another of the top ten country living myths. But, I did not want to say that to the person who posted and who might very well have the skills and savvy to do it themselves. Tourists, here, who don't want the bed and breakfast long for the log home that they think is so inexpensive to build. Hmm..I don't see many log homes..except in the $500,000 plus neighborhoods.

Me? I'm not looking for a money making enterprise right now. I'm busy working and planning house restoration. But, I so very much want goats and fruit trees and want to make soap. And you folks here have been a wealth of knowledge.

Real living in rural, and even rural/resort areas is vastly different than the story book versions that those from away think it is.

-- pc (jasper2@doglover.com), December 07, 2001.

pc, I am a little confused by your post. Are you braging or complaining? Are tourist a good or bad thing? I am guessing that you are in Vermont or New Hampshire (a la Newhart). That is where we go every chance we get. We are in Southeast KS and there sure isn't anything here. Tourist don't even slow down. Actually there isn't any reason to be driving thru here. So, I guess now that I think about it, if we had a lot of tourist then we would own some kind of business (I make dandy salsa, JIM) then we wouldn't have time to go off several times every year to New England, Canada, Wyoming or where ever.

by the way Jim, where are you located?

-- Belle (gardenbelle@terraworld.net), December 07, 2001.

Belle..

Neither bragging nor complaining. Just pointing out that many people who visit rural areas have some unreasonable expectations and dreams about living in the country.

As I said, it was just a ponder post. Not asking anything. Just observations.

-- pc (jasper2@doglover.com), December 07, 2001.

pc, you just decribed where I live. I love this little town I live in. It is cosidered a money town and I joke to everyone who comments about how much money I must make to live here that I'm the grondskeeper for everyone in town and that is the only reason that I am allowed to live here.

I was welcomed into this town from day one and have gotten to know a lot of the old-timers quite well. I love to hear the stories of how we use to have 3 grocery stores, 2 or 3 gas stations, a butcher, a couple of bars, 2 banks,several Doctors and several Dentist, a few inns and cows that would be herded down main street to new pasture. We don't have nearly as many businesses as there use to be and what we do have are more upscale and we have a few famous people living here and a nice golf course. Cows are no longer herded down main street except for during the Old Home Days parade. The wealthy people are buying the old homes and restoring them. Nothing stays on the market for long here. The place we bought was not on the market we had to ask the owners if they wanted to sell. I enjoy the tourist more than others do but thats because I'm proud of our little town and like that people who happen to stumble upon it are amazed at how beautiful it is and how nice the people who live here are.

One thing that I really like about this town is that we have the agricultural section and we are encouraged to keep it agricultural. The town even puts up a real big fuss if any business trys to sneak in that does not fit in. A super store tried to trick towns people into signing a form requesting that they be allowed to buy a corn field and put their super store in. It only took a few hours for someone to catch on, then there was a special town meeting and it was voted that any retail business had to build in one small area on the road that went out around the town, and any retail business that went in had to be on a lot with over a certain amount of square footage and under a certain amount of square footage for the building. Also, any building that is built has to fit in with the arcitecture (sp) of the town. Everyone seems happy with that.

When I first moved here I went to the town office to ask if it was o.k. to have livestock where I lived. One look at the town map and I was told that not only was I allowed to have livestock but they wish more people who live around me would get into livestock.

We not only have tourist come to look at leaves and ski but also to look at the countryside. We do get some city slickers who move in and want to change our town, but they end up with a good fight.

Even on the back road where I live I sometimes have to pretend like I don't notice people slowing down when I am working in the yard because so many tourist like to stop and chat about the town. I'm not a snob but If I stopped to talk to everyone I would get very little done.

My neighbors are the parents of a famous daughter and her very famous husband yet they are as down to earth as I am and we exchange plants with each other and even though their home is more exspensive they do not have it so that it looks any better than the other homes around them. Just around the corner from us is a famous film maker yet he fits right in and no one makes a big fuss about him, no one in this town would ever tell an outsider where they live. I get asked all the time. If anyone really wanted to they could meet them on the street on almost any day.

I do wish I had found this place years ago but I am happy that I found it at a time when I could afford it. Even though it is a wealthy town the town and its people take a tremendous amount of pride in its agricultural heritage. Even though there are times when I would like to move I never think in terms of moving to another part of the state or country, only to a bigger piece of property in this town.

I really believe that I have found the ideal place to live. Been here for seven years and grow to love it more and more. The only problem I have ever had living here is that my out of state family loves it too and sometimes it get hectic around here. I also have spread the word that next July 4th the population of this town will almost double because I am having the first family reunion my family has ever had. I have 16 brothers and sisters and last count 50 or more (lost count) neices and nephews. Maybe once the reunion is over I will no longer be welcomed :-)

Wish everyone could live in a town like this. I think I'll keep it's location a secret though;-)

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

Belle, we live in Altoona, Ks. Jim

-- Jim Raymond (jimr@terraworld.net), December 07, 2001.

pc, I agree with your observations. I read them daily on this forum. We have lived here on our homestead for over 30 years. It is HARD work everyday. We had to work full time jobs to maintain our 'downhome' lifestyle. We try to raise most of our food, can dozens of jars of fruit and veggies every summer. We raise or barter for our beef and pork. We have had friends from the city come to visit us and they think it is like a full time vacation because we can go fishing, hiking, horseback riding, all the good stuff anytime we want. Oh yes, the grass is always greener.............

-- Belle (gardenbelle@terraworld.net), December 07, 2001.

Interesting observations, pc.

Where I live, as forum regulars know, there are no services, no anything for a 100 mile radius, and virtually nothing for 200 miles. That's where you can find your first traffic signal, supermarket, drugstore, dentist, police, etc.

Even counting the few long-distance haulers that ply one of my area's two roads (the second one is open only 4 1/2 months in the year), outside the tourist season one can go to sleep in the middle of the road and it would be a very very long time - usually hours - before you get squished.

So the tourists who come through in the summer are more curious than wide-eyed about moving here. They compliment me on how breath- defyingly beautiful this country is, hwo there are so many large mammals, eagles, salmon, etc., and how I can run a fine hospitality business here...but I get less than one Newhart-wannabe a year, to the best of my recollection. "But what do you do in the wnter?", they all want to know (sit at the computer and internet-away, for one).

-- Audie (paxtours@alaska.net), December 07, 2001.

Hmm...don't know about tourists except when I am one. Nothing around here much to draw them.

I do know about real life vs. storybook imaginings. For example, milking the cow. I'm sure you all are familiar with the ideal picture of peace and tranquility I envisioned as I searched for my jersey. Images of rosy-cheeked milk maids strolling down to the barn, swinging the milk pail and singing happily....

HA!

The reality is that I carry the pail and a jug of warm, soapy water because she doesn't much care if she lies down in a big ol' cow patty and gets her bag all nasty. I try to balance the above two items and a bucket of feed while manuevering through two gates and the barn door. At the same time, I have to keep my now three buckets out of reach of the non-milk cow who has become a pet. If I manage this successfully, I then pour the feed into "jersey's" bin and sit on the carrying bucket to milk.

If I'm lucky, I will only have to relocate my perch about three times as she shifts around, my hands won't go into spasms until I am finished and I will only get hit in the head with her tail and not in the eye. I think I about have this last one figured out, she almost always swings left first and then right. If I'm careful, I can tell just when to duck.

Oh yea...one more thing...when you have your nose that close to a cow, THEY STINK!

Different than I imagined! Oh yes!! Would I trade it for anything else? Not on your life!!

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), December 08, 2001.

We live in an area that is becoming increasingly tourist attraction oriented. There are still plenty of good old boys and rednecks though, but the retirees from California come in and the land prices have been going up steadily. It seems that a favorite occupation among the former Californians is real eastate--sigh.. Not that I hate the Californians, it's just that often their way of life is very different, and so we are seen as 'backwards'. Such beautiful land, so many trees- wow, those would be worth a lot of money if you'd log them! You don't want to log them?? Why not? Wow, what great views this old farm has, it'd be a great place to subdivide..

As far as dreams go, most dreams aren't realistic, and that's OK. Most dreams never come true, but how could we live without them? They are what keeps us going and motivated. I think most homesteaders who were not born in the country have gone through a dream phase- like when I thought it would be a great idea to grow acres and acres of huckleberries, since they sell for $20.00 a gallon or more. Turns out they don't domesticate easily, that's why nobody's doing it. Just like we go into mariage with all kinds of grand ideas, things don't turn out the way we thought they would, but that's OK, dreams can change our life even if they never come true.

-- Rebekah (nomail@thanx.net), December 08, 2001.

I guess I was a homesteder and never knew it. We have always had a milk cow and chickens. My wife and I have a garden year. Our children are grown and now we raise them a pig to butcher and there are eggs. Rabbits in the frezer and small ones to butcher. Who knows, homesteders may be the tourist attraction. God has been good to us. Jim

-- Jim Raymond (jimr@terraworld.net), December 08, 2001.

Hey PC. I'm the one with the log home dream. I had to laugh when I read your post about 'cheap' log homes. What an idiot I was when I first came up with this idea. Had no idea how expensive they were. But I was working a $50K plus job and whenever the hubby whined about the cost I volunteered to quit my job and settle for less. Careful what you ask for........ I did quit the job from hell and now barely make $15 per year. But I haven't given up the dream. We've scaled back to what I call a half-ass log house - we're building it into the side of a hill so the only part that will be log is the loft walls and the front. The rest will be foundation that's in the ground. Planning on covering the inside lower level with log siding so I can still lie to myself that it's a real log house. :) And now instead of building it this coming summer, it's been put back to 'some day'. But hey, now I have time bake bread, make soap, garden.... and I do have wood walls in the living room of my trailer. :) Sorry, this doesn't go with the thread but it made me laugh at myself and remember the good ole days. HA!

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), December 08, 2001.

ps

And I have no idea if we can do this ourselves. Probably not, but I figured it was worth checking out. You never know if you don't try. Hubby already gave me that 'you've-got-to-be-kidding-me' look. :)

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), December 08, 2001.

log homes aren't always that expensive. It depends on the area. Maybe back east you mostly see them in upscale areas but out west it's different. If you do it all yourself and provide the timber you can build well under $10/sq ft. You don't need a fancy sawmill, it can all be done with chainsaws and homemade guides. Some log home kits in the northwest aren't much more that. Stop looking at those fancy full color brochures and take the backwoods approach and it might be possible.

people coming from California drove real estate prices out of control in the early 90s in the area of Montana I used to live in, Yellowstone county. Especially after the ski resort Red Lodge expanded and a few movie stars bought places. It seemed like every other person I met had come from California. Once they built their homes they started complaining about the lack of services, the gravel roads, etc. They priced the prime areas way out of reach of the locals. Of course you got to blame some of the locals greed too, many welcomed, even invited all the people to come there. Now having moved to California, when I leave here I too can be known as one of those damn Californians that ruin everything. ; )

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 08, 2001.

Ah, myths!

I like the one about raising sheep and selling wool and wool products (gosh, how would I know about such a silly dream???)...you know, the part about how the artsy folk from the city drive out to your place (while marveling about the beauty that you were so *wise* to surround yourself with, while they....well they simply toil at tragic jobs in the city, wishing they could only live like you, if they weren't so superficial.....) ROFLMAO!

In the meantime, they make over $100k/yr, can go anywhere they want, do anything they want, take outrageously long vacations, buy the d*mn wool or handmade stuff from people in Peru, or Aspen, or wherever, anytime they want. Or have stuff commissioned, for heaven's sake!

Still, I wouldn't trade my lifestyle in a second. I don't care if my wool sells or not. The air is fresh and the sky is very big...and I really don't give a rip anyway if those city folks have a 1/2-second thought about my lifestyle!

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

A few realities of living in the country:

Most rural areas do not have cable TV though some small towns might. In many rural areas even your choice of radio stations will be limited. Your broadcast TV reception may be pretty sparse as well though this can sometimes be rectified with a tall antenna tower. If TV is important to you (we don't watch it much) then a satellite dish can improve matters a lot.

Chances are the only internet access you'll be able to find will be strictly dial-up and at only 28k even if they claim 56k modems. Until two-way satellite becomes more affordable all that fast net access stuff is largely going to be limited to the cities and suburbs. Rural phone lines and rural phone services haven't improved much in the last twenty years. Some rural areas can do better, most can't.

For most rural areas it takes longer for emergency services to get to you than it would in an urban/suburban area. For this reason you'd be well served to make sure you ALWAYS have some basic fire suppression gear on hand like fire extinguishers (ESPECIALLY if you live in a mobile home), learn something about first aid and keep a first aid kit, and look closely at your security situation. All them yard dogs you see in the country do serve a useful purpose and that shotgun behind the kitchen door can be more valuable to you than your entire county sheriff's department who won't get to you in time to be a lot of help, if you were even able to let them know you needed help in the first place.

Unless you're lucky enough to be in close proximity to your local phone office and power distribution substation there will be a lot of miles of line to get from there to your place. There's also fewer people living in rural areas than in urban/suburban areas. This means that you should be prepared to cope with temporary outages of power and phone service when storms come through. Im major storms (as in natural disasters) the available resources for repairing and restoring utility services are naturally going to go to the high-priority and high-population first. Low-population density rural areas will probably have to wait longer for their electricity to come back and maybe their roads to be cleared. Be prepared to cope with this.

In rural areas there is less of everything in the way of stores, businesses and services than you will find in urban/suburban areas. It behooves you to think ahead about purchases you might need to make so that you can make the most efficient use of your time and gas whenever you go into town. If it's ten, twenty, thirty miles or more to the nearest good shopping you'd better be sure you got what you needed to get so that you don't have to make another long round trip to get that one item you have to have that you forgot the first time.

At the same time, if you have local businesses and services in your area SUPPORT THEM! Yes, chances are they won't have the same selection as you'll find in the larger cities and their prices may be a bit higher but if they don't get local support they will go bust. Then you'll *have* to make that long round trip into the city for even the most common, everyday items and you'll pay extra in many cases for services if someone has to make that long trip from the city to your place.

Be tolerant of your neighbors. You moved out of the surburbs/city for a reason. If you start trying to change your country location to make it more like your city life perhaps you should reconsider why you're wanting to move in the first place. At the same time, make some effort to meet and get to know your neighbors. Not all of them will turn out to be folks you want to know but some might and in the real country good neighbors are very valuable. No one lives in a vacuum, not even in the country.

={(Oak)-

-- Live Oak (live-oak@atlantic.net), December 13, 2001.

My least favorite myth- " We live in the country so now our dogs have room to run!"

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 13, 2001.