I read your response over on CS EM and was wondering about the unschooling but didn't want to ask it over there. How did you teach reading and math??? Did you wait for them to want to?? My daughter pretty much allows the children to pace themselves and direct their course beyond some basic math and language skills for which she has a curiculum. My grandson does not do well in "structured" settings, but is reading way beyond his so called grade level because he wants to. Math is iffy but we keep it simple. Today we did research on duck-billed platypus, his interest for the moment. He is six. Just wondering.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Answers

bump......what can you tell me EM (from the ex-whore trailer trash homeschooling granny);>)

For those of you who don't read CS anymore I have been engaged in yet another controversial thread. Oh hell, will I ever learn!!!

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Ooh, what thread? Need any help? :)

We should fix up your grandson with my neice in about 12 years or so. She's also six, and her current facination is Egyptology. She knows the names of the various dynasties and she's teaching herself how to read hieroglyphics (sp?) She got a really cool "Make your own Mummy" kit for her birthday.

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

See!! Someone can use the word whore in conversation!!! I am vindicated!!!! Thank you, Diane. Thats the word that gor me tarred and feathered on the CF forum. Now I am curious..who is the ex whore? Sorry for the digression but it just sorta leaped out at me.

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Wow! How ever did your compliment to homeschool moms turn into that!

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Goodness, serious case of thread drift here. I guess that gives me the right (???? not really, I know) to drift as well. Diane we don't homeschool. In fact I have been called a socialist (and worst) on my views of education. Both my husband and I have PhD's but are big supporters of public education. I think it is just dandy that there are these super mom's out there who want to devote their day to their childrens education. But what about the kids who don't have mom's like that? Don't they deserve a good education too. If all the parents devoted to their kid's education, take them out of public school, what happens to the kids who don't have support at home. I have spent my life in public education, from kindergarten to teaching at a major state University, parent involvement is important, and not just for your own kids, but because all the children are our future.

Off my soap box now, what we have chosen to do is be involved in our kids education. I spend at least 3 day a week at the local school. I also work a lot with my kids at home! My 3 kids are as different to each other as they come. One is totally sports oriented, one is gifted in music, the youngest is a bookworm. I find that supplementing their public education, while letting them enjoy activities such as band and organized sports (which I don't do well) works for us.

I didn't mean to be argumentative or contrary. Just reminding us that we all rely on the future generation!

Kim

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Obviously my unschooling is not going to get an answer. Well Kim, I come from a very long line of teachers, like since the days my country was homesteaded and settled. Yes, I believe that the public school system is important and needed. You would have to be in the state of Michigan dealing with the MEA to understand my bitterness to the system as it exists today. What has happened in my state in regards to homeschoolers and the fights we have had should never have been. My remarks to this man on CS were triggered by past remarks from him and I thought I was being gentle. If all teachers were like him than I would certainly work VERY hard for the total disbanding of the public education system. Guys like him got tenure and get their jollies looking down on those less fortunate.

I was involved almost daily with my childrens education in the public school system and I still volunteer as an aide in my local public school. So you see, my remarks had nothing to do with being totally against the system, just what the system has turned into. No one should have the right to tell me I HAVE to put my children on a bus for an hour and 1/2 (one way) every day to receive a substandard education. (off soap box and back to grandson)

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Well see, you can go read for yourself of course, but in condensed terms a public school teacher over at CS rather considered most homeschooling moms to be "barely literate trailer trash ex-whores". Was really funny actually. What a doofus.....somethin tells me he didnt make too many points for public schoolin'!

Diane, I do use the Saxon math books; those are the only texts we use. They're great; all I have to do (I'm a lazy 'teacher' anywho, so it works out great for us) is correct the lessons, answer questions when they get stuck, cuz the books are set up for graduated self- learning. Oh, and yes, I must admit that Math is one thing I do hafta bug em about frequently; I now insist they do five lessons a week; sometimes they do em all on Friday! No lessons, no computer for Ali, no guitar playing for Lotus. Works really well, cuz those things are dearest to their hearts.

As for reading, I hardly had to do anything whatsoever for Ali. (now 14). She needed a tiny bit of phonetic guidance early on, but just picked it right up and was reading like a pro by the time she was 6. She is an excellent speller, and writer. and reads constantly. She has never been to school.

Lotus was another story, however. She went to school for the first three years. On the advice of a teacher friend but against my better judgement, I let her start kindergarten before she was even 5, at an alternative, Waldorf-type public school. She had to get special permission, and tested out at super high IQ, (for what that's worth) which didnt surprise me cuz she always was a weird kid, and they let her in. In a very short time we began to see our sweet, brilliant, self-assured little girl become nervous, self-conscious, and self- effacing. It was absolutely heartbreaking, and after I figured out what was going on, it was also infuriating. I volunteered in the classroom twice a week, so I could keep an eye on things.

Now this was a school that was out of the norm, of course, that had smaller classrooms and more individual attention, used 'whole language' reading programs, lots of hands-on stuff, more freedom of movement and so on. So I figure she was getting the best that public education had to offer, and she probably was.

Lotus is a bundle of creativity; she has never been able to do anything without flair. She cannot simply fry a hamburger for a quick bite like normal people, she has to create a brand new kind of sandwich. When she was very young, some of her creations were quite inedible (lets see........worcestershire sauce popsicles?), but they were always creative, and always unique. Sometimes this is a tad annoying (like when everyone is in a hurry), but mostly its just fabulous to watch. She is a splendiferous cook, but can never repeat a recipe cuz she doesnt write it down!

Everthing she does is like this; her basement bedroom was covered in awful phoney wood paneling when we moved here. She promptly removed most of it, but some parts wil not come off without major wall damage, so she is in the process of papering these areas with maps, photo cards, photographs of her friends and musical mentors, and in the case of the ceiling, TIN FOIL! Believe it or not, it looks great!

Anyway, as is the case with many creative people, she was a very late reader, according to school standards. She just plain wasnt all that interested. She LOVED being read to, and needless to say we always read to the girls every single day, still do read together occassionally. This was not acceptable to the school, so they put her in a 'special reading class' twice a week, so of course she was immediately branded as having something wrong with her. She was humiliated, and learned NOTHING in this class of a positive nature. The teachers were good, kind , well-meaning people, but my kid did not belong there. I will not speak for other's kids.

We pulled her out after second grade; it took THREE YEARS for her to emotionally recover from her school experience. In fact, in many ways she has never fully recovered from it. Ironically we now live a couple of miles from that school, and she tells me that whenever we go past it, she feels that sadness, that anxiety she felt as that little girl. Lotus didn't really read well until she was 9, and that was ok with us. She reads quite a bit, but mostly about music, and travel. She writes incredible poetry, and songs. She is still not the world's fastest reader, and will always be a terrible speller (we've tried lots of programs.....and have accepted that the frustration aint worth it, no one is good at everything, and she is fine as she is.......thank goodness for spell check!). I am convinced she has much more important things to contribute to the world than devoting too much energy to mundane things like spelling!

That's my blab for now about why I unschooled my girls, and why I absolutely believe it was the right thing to do for us. Added to the fact that we get along so beautifully, and they are such wonderful human beings, we must be doin something right.

Blessings,

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

I, for one, do not mind thread drift at all. I consider THIS forum a series of conversations, and that's what conversations do. However, we should all be mindful of trying to answer the original questions posed in any threads. Just my opinion, of course. Now off to see where Diane has been getting in trouble . . .

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Well, took the grandson back to his parents......:>( It is always so quiet after a visit; even the dog looks sad. I must own that I had seen this guys responses on some homeschool threads in the past or I would not have made my "factory farm" remark. There are a lot of public school teachers that I admire.........this guy just always gets my goat. Thanks EM, I thought maybe we were being to regimented but it sounds like we are doing o.k.

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001

Kim, just wanted to comment on your thoughtful post. I agree its an important issue that needs serious consideration by homeschooling parents. I think I do understand your adhering to your convictions by sending your kids to public school; it displays an empathetic spirit and global mentality that our world needs more of.

First of all, like Diane mentioned, I do not think most of us think that there should be no such thing as public schools. There are certainly parents who are not equipped to guide their childrens' schooling; new immigrants would have quite a challenge just becoming accustomed to a strange language and culture. There are all kinds of folks who are not interested in teaching their own kids, and I have no quarrel with them.

You asked about all the kids whose parents are not equipped to homeschool,and 'don't they deserve a good education too?" Yes, they do, it just happens to be my personal belief that they do not receive it in most public schools, at least not if they are at all out of the standard norms set up by the administrators, and outside of the experience/education of degreed teachers. I think a much better, locally-monitored, parent and student controlled system could be set up that would truly do what schools should do.

My biggest beef with the system is that it is COMPULSORY. I have lots of things I personally think are abhorrent about public schools, and the whole concept of mass education, and that is my personal view. And while I do enjoy sharing my views with others, I certainly try not to convince others they should feel the same, but I do strongly believe that parents and kids should be the sole decision makers about their own education, not the government.

Peace,

-- Anonymous, December 07, 2001