The Restoration Movement. Can you tell me exactly what this means? Who or what are you restoring? I've read "What We Believe" and "Our Position" and neither state clearly what "Resoration Movement" is.

I am looking for mature Christian discussions free from the rantings of non-believers.

Am I in the right place?

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Answers

Laura,

I don't have the time right now to go into a full history of the "Movement", but this url link gives a brief synapsis of the history & thinking behind the movement - check it out & see what you think:

http://www.restorationmovement.net/what.html

And hopefully, this is the "right" place you seek. We do get some "interlopers" from time to time - and some times the discussions can get "heated"..........but that is to be expected from a group of people that strive to make serving the Lord in all truth & honesty their primary goal in life.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

QUICK note on "Laura":

IF this is the same person who used the handle "ladylogic" during the y2k debates.....beware.

She has been the direct cause of more than one lusenet site having to go password protected, or shutting down altogether.

She is guilty of internet stalking, slander, and more. SHUN her, IF IN FACT this is her (be very sure first). She is shrewd and can play both sides of the fence very well.

If this is in fact NOT "ladylogic" than ignore this post completely and my sincerest apologies to MS wrangler.

[This post not being made lightly. I believe that "ladylogic" used the term ladybugwrangler on more than one occasion in the past....THAT is the reason for this warning!!]

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Excuse me? Unlike you, I am using a valid return. I have participated on lusenet forums for almost 3 years under this email and under gsend@hotmail.com. I have always used my given name on posts. Never have I posted in a way that I would consider to dishonor my Lord, or on forums that can be considered unclean.

Perhaps you should do a search of all forum archives before attempting to slander a newcomer to a supposed "godly" forum. When you post such garbage, it is easy for most people to really not notice that "IF" that you put in there, so you really should be sure of what you are accusing.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Giv it up LL...I pegged ya.

Bluster and blow, but this forum has been warned about you. pouse your questions, get your answers. Just don't try your usual "tactics".

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

Enough already. She either is or isn't. Who cares? Nobody is necessarily barred here, as long as they stay on topic. (knock on wood) And From here on out, posts that do not use real email addresses will be deleted.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

so if I use my real e-mail address but duane doesn't agree with what I say, it gets deleted as well. heh. nice. (maybe you should delete your own post right above this one.....but of course that e-mail addy is completely real....just like y2k and those 39 unanswered questions, eh duane.....right?)

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

This "forum" is a real joke if you ask me. The only reason I keep coming back is to try to enlighten at least a few truth lovers in the brotherhood.

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2001

No one asked you ... you are certainly free to stay away!

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2001

Actually I am waiting for a topic that is worth talking about.

Is everyone here so dead in their religion that they cannot move beyond the popular topic of this forum?

-- Anonymous, December 09, 2001

Yes Laura, I am dead in my religion, but ALIVE in my Christianity!

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Darrell,

I find your personal outrage against Laura to be disgusting coming from a Christian gentleman. If she is such a burdensome stone as you infer, just ignore her and get on with the subject. And by the way, I do not need your permission to sign on or sign off. That is entirely my prerogative, thank you very much.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Laura asked a question that needs to be addressed time and time again by those of us who expect to get a hearing from outsiders.

"The Restoration Movement. Can you tell me exactly what this means? Who or what are you restoring? I've read "What We Believe" and "Our Position" and neither state clearly what "Restoration Movement" is."

In the simplest of terms, Laura ( and I seriously doubt that you ignore this), THE Restoration Movement that is spoken about in this forum, is the one which was started by reformers such as Campbell, Stone, Scott, et al. during the early and mid eighteen hundreds. It has been pointed out that other similar movements were happening around the world almost simultaneously as societies began to throw off the heavy shackles of traditional Christianity and began to search for a "restoration" of that form of Christianity found in the New Testament.

I have found in my studies that this is quite likely the case. Two books I suggest that you read in order to get a broader understanding are:

The Torch of Testimony- by Kennedy The Pilgrim Church- by Broadbent

James Forest DeMurch also rote an excellent book called The Free Church but it is out print.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Philip -- I had no outrage whatsoever towards her, and she is no buden to me at all. I have no idea where that came frm.

I was merely stating that I am a Christian, not a religious person, that is all.

Religion is man's search for God, while Christianity is God's search for man.

No, you dojn't need my permission to be on this forum. I was saying that if you don't like it, leave. That's all.

Don't you start reading more into posts than are written.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Philip -- you wrote: "If she is such a burdensome stone as you infer ..." Where in the world did I infer any such thing? I have gone back to read my post and I didn't infer any such thing. Please respond.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Laura,

Might I also suggest the excellent book, The Stone-Campbell Movement by Leroy Garrett? I believe it is still published by College Press.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

If there's one thing Christians can't bear, it's someone shining light on their beliefs. They don't read anything but Christian dogma which they believe down to the last word. They don't think for themselves, but then, why should they, when they can just leave everthing to the lord and wander through life like good Christian zombies. They don't have to take responsibilty for anything, for they can just leave it in the lord's hands, and of course they are always forgiven as long as they suck-up to the big daddy in the sky. They love being brainwashed for it saves them the trouble of having to think, or having to question their sacred beliefs.

They never stop to ask themselves if religion isn't just a matter of geography. If they had been born in Afghanistan, chances are they would be Muslim right down to the ground, or if in Spain more than likely Catholic kneeling and making the cross. Think about it.

If Laura is just Laura, good for her. If she's Lady Logic, good for her. Of course Christians condemn before they even know who's posting. They can't stand the thought of being challenged by anyone. So much for their strong faith and generosity of spirit.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Wow, talk about your blanket stereotyping.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Gilda,

What light are you shining? If you'll notice, the person who began talking about "Laura" did not give his nome nor address. For all we know, it could've ben you that posted those comments. I don't think you did, so don't think I'm accusing you of it. But from my vantage point, it's possible.

You bring up a valid point about where people are born. The problem is that there are people in Afghanistan that are not Muslim. There are people in Spain that are not Spanish. I assume you were born in the U.S., why aren't you a Christian?

I will not argue with you that there are people who are Christian began that's the way they were brought up. But there are many that are Christian because that's where reason and sensibility took them.

If environment is all that makes a Christian, what is so terrible with yours that you hate Christianity so much? Let's shine some light, shall we?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Besides all the spelling errors of the above post, the one phrase is supposed to say that there are some people in Spain that are not Catholic.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

I heard Sagan had to get rid of his baloney detector because it kept going off every time he got near it.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

I posted, what I thought, was an honest answer to your question Scott. But apparently, non-Christians are not welcome, for only one of my posts was posted on this forum. So those of you who only want consensus and agreement and not one word of logical debate or discussion must be thrilled. I will leave and not disturb your insular little world which does not welcome light into dark corners of your faith. To paraphrase a famous Scot, ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

Darrell,

Unless I am totally of base here, this isn't the first time you have clashed with Laura (whoever she is). I can understand your frustration to a certain degree, because Barry gets on my nerves sometimes. But if we just keep reacting to each others statements instead of sticking to the subject, the forum is in vain. That is my point - Laura or no Laura. I say this because it is also my natural tendency to react too soon to statements made by others in a given thread. I think that if we just give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves.

Finally, my motives for participating in this forum are both sincere and upfront. I don't have anything to hide, otherwise I would have dropped out of it. If I have stayed on is because I have found a few who are actually interested in learning from each other instead of grabbing at each other's throat (metaphorically speaking of course).When someone tells me "love it or leave it" I understand it to be a putdown. I don't see how I could interpret it in any other way, do you? If this is not you intention, than you need to re-phrase your remarks accordingly.

Darrell, since I do not know you personally, I have no reason to question your good will. If a string is designed to be confidential, than please let us all know so that we can stay out of it, OK? That's all for now.

God bless and take care. Philip Watkinson

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

To One and All,

I wouldn't put too much stock into what Garrett has to say about the history of the Movement. In the words of the late Dr. Chambers' (former professor of Church History), "this is historical malpractice." He went on to state that Garrett, like all other revisionists, wrote The Stone-Campbell Movement to prove a point, and that is not the way to right history.

Personally, I have a serious problem with Garrett's deconstructionist mode.He consistently takes quotes out context in order to bolster his bias. He is anti-restoration in that he doesn't even believe in the validity of the concept. He says so himself. Furthermore, Garrett espouses a low view of Scripture stating that there is no "pattern" to be found in the New Testament. For someone who is of a Church of Christ background, I find him to be quite neo-orthodox in his view of the Bible, but then so was Ketcherside his mentor.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

Garrett's book is excellent literature--but bad history. Thanks Phillip. Did someone mention Carl Sagan in this thread? My earlier post looks out of place.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

As I shared with Philip in an email:

"Darrell, Unless I am totally of base here, this isn't the first time you have clashed with Laura (whoever she is). " I have no idea in the world who Laura is ... I have never posted anything to her before. In fact, I believe she is a rather new poster to the forum. Could you tell me where you got that idea from? "I can understand your frustration to a certain degree ..." What frustration ... I had and have no frustration towards her at all! I don't have a clue who she is. I truly don't believe my post to her showed any frustration at all. in fact, she emailed me and stated she had no problem with me or my post at all. "If a string is designed to be confidential, than please let us all know so that we can stay out of it, OK?" And I'm really sorry, but I don't have a clue what you mean by the above sentence. The forum is open, and not confidential at all. My only statement was that if you were so frustrated at the forum, then leave. Others have. I understand that. I was not asking you to leave, just suggesting that maybe you should due to the frustration you seemed to be showing at the forum in general.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

No one asked me but you can read the review of Garrett's book by Chambers here: http://www.cccflorida.org/Plea%20of%20History.htm

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001

WHOA!!! TIME OUT HERE, GUYS!!!!!TALK ABOUT THREAD DRIFT!!!!!!!

This thread was my first post to this forum. I have never conversed with any of you before and I have no idea who the moron who attacked me without doing his homework is. As far as I know, Darrel was not attacking me, only the moderator knows for sure and he ain't talkin'.

I asked a legitimate question and I am asking now for the petty bickering to move to its own thread titled PETTY BICKERING. I will even start one for you guys.

I just want to know in your own words, what does the restoration movement attempting to restore and do I fit in this group and am I even welcome here? I am a very busy homeschooling farmwife and I do not have time to read a lot of irrelevent books. I am a Bible only Christian and I do not have the time or interest in denominational history.

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001

I don't know who the "accuser" was... only that he/she left a fake address... scroll back and you will see the progression of the transgression.... If Ladybug would like, I will delete those posts entirely...

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001

Scott,

Who is "Chambers"?

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001

Barry,

Chambers refers to Dr. Roger Chambers, the History prof that Philip mentions in his above post.

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001