Anybody been doing any research on this?

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2001

Answers

The answer to the immediate question is...."Most definintely."

I did a seminar in October entitled...."Ten Things You Need To Know About Islam." Extremely well attended...and definitely an eye opener. I also teach World Religions in one of our Bible colleges.

If anyone would like my notes from this seminar....I would be glad to give them to you via e-mail. They are in M/S Word format.

Simply make your request....via e-mail.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

Oh....the notes contain numerous references from the Koran.

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001

We have a former Pakistani Muslum in the CHurch here and we have allowed him to take a couple of Sunday nights and explain Islam and give us some history.

The answer to the original question is yes.

BTW, he wrote a pamphlet concerning Islam & Christianity and it can be read at: www.crownhillchurch.com/Resources/resources.htm

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2001

At the risk of being politically incorrect (like THAT'S a big problem), I agree with Scott...........they are a threat.

Forget (if you can) for a moment, that historically, Islam has ALWAYS been spread by the Sword and not by teaching. Forget the absolute hatred that they have for the Great Satan - America (they share that with many foreign peoples - at least to some degree).

I look at it this way........in a country that was founded as "One Nation under God" (God Jehovah, not god Allah).........is there room for a group that defames that God and degrates His Son ------ and there still be peace amongst the groups?

Doubtful, very doubtful.

And I'm not being racist. Islam is simply a false teaching - and a false teaching NEVER brings about a good result. If false teachings were acceptable and peaceable, why are we told in Scripture to "contend earnestly for the Faith which was ONCE delivered" and to exercise discipline against those who promote false teaching within the body of Christ?

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Well, technically, they are not promoting false doctrine within the body of Christ. They are totally outsiders.

Mark, when you write:

Forget the absolute hatred that they have for the Great Satan - America

when you say "they" are you referring to The Koran, Islam teaching, the leaders, or adherents? And what about the Muslims who live here and are American citizens? Are they part of this "they" you speak of? Do they secretly detest the country they live in because of religious conviction?

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Scott, invite this former Muslim church member to our Forum!

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Duane,

The "they" I refer to is basically many of the leaders overseas, but not exclusively so. A look at the world news on any given night (even before 9/11/01) shows much of that hatred in the capitals & on the streets in foreign lands.

I know of no "kill the Americans" in the Koran, but I'm no expert on it either. Of what I do know, the Koran is basically a peaceful document...........as is the Bible.

But actions speak louder than words. Islam was spread via combat & conquest; while Christianity was spread via teaching, witnessing, and non-violent martyrs. The "church's" 1 attempt at conquest (the Crusades) was a dismal failure....as it should have been.

There may well be many good people in the USA that are Islamic and have no beef with the country. But I have to ask myself, "if push comes to shove, who are they going to align themselves with........their brothers in Allah or the Pagan Americans?"

What has history shone that answer to be?

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Duane,

Islam is more of a political movement than an honest to goodness religion. They are destroy infidels wherever they are. I call that a threat to national security.

As my bro. here points out, those who take a stand against ben Laden are lying through their teeth. A good Muslum would applaud anything that would destroy infidels.

It's there Muslum politicians that will publicly stand with the U.S. but the common people keep signing up to fight with Usama.

BTW, my bro. here does not use his computer much but I will mention it to him. He has had several threats on his life for becoming a Christian.

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

The Bible is a peaceful document?

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Certainly the Bible brings peace. But we are not told to kill all non- Christians. Convert them, yes. Execute them, no.

The Israelites were to destroy those in Canaan. It was not a "wherever you are" command. Under the New Covenant, peace reigns. We are to get along in society as best we can, trying to convert as we go along.

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2001

Does the Koran teach Muslims to kill infidels? Are non-Muslims considered infidels?

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2001

Yes to both questions. I can give you references later.

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2001

How much later? I need to start watching my back.

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2001

I called my bro. here who is a former muslum and asked about the Koran. He said, "absolutely, especially Jews and Christians" and that if I wanted the references he would get them for me, probably tomorrow (the Lord's Day).

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2001

still waiting on those references!

-- Anonymous, November 28, 2001

The references he gave me were 9:5, 51 and 47:4. Haven't studied them yet so have nothing to say about them but there they are.

-- Anonymous, November 29, 2001

From what I understand there are several commandments in the Qu'ran to hate, even to kill, the infidel, but not one single commandment to love anyone.

Jesus Christ was able to do something that Allah couldn't do. Jesus said that there was no greater love than that a man lay down his life for his friends. (If a Muslim says the Injil has been mistranslated, tell him that in all 25,000 copies there is no deviation on this verse; all are in agreement that Jesus said exactly that!) Jesus, who was Immanuel, "God with us," chose to go to the cross for us. Allah, the God of the Qu'ran, could never even conceive of becoming a man and giving himself for us. Who's love for us is greater: Allah's, or Jesus'?

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2001

If it helps any, here are those passages that Scott gave us, along with some of their immediate context:

The Immunity [9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement. [9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers. [9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. [9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.51] Say: Nothing will afflict us save what Allah has ordained for us; He is our.Patron; and on Allah let the believers rely. [9.52] Say: Do you await for us but one of two most excellent things? And we await for you that Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands. So wait; we too will wait with you. [9.53] Say: Spend willingly or unwillingly, it shall not be accepted from you; surely you are a transgressing people. [9.54] And nothing hinders their spendings being accepted from them, except that they disbelieve in Allah and in His Apostle and they do not come to prayer but while they are sluggish, and they do not spend but while they are unwilling. [9.55] Let not then their property and their children excite your admiration; Allah only wishes to chastise them with these in this world's life and (that) their souls may depart while they are unbelievers.

Muhammad In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. [47.1] (As for) those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, He shall render their works ineffective. [47.2] And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition. [47.3] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers. [47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

If you can figure this stuff out - I got some Calculus you can help me with!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2001

Here's some references I found (would appreciate correction if I'm wrong):

9.5-6.: "Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you may find them."

8.12.: "I will instill terror into the hearts of the Infidels, strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every fingertip."

8.40: "Fight then against them until strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's."

4.74.: "Let those fight in the cause of Allah who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on Allah's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, we will give him a handsome reward."

5.56: "O Beleivers! Take not the Jews or Christians as friends. They are but one another's friends. If any one of you takes them for his friends, he surely is one of them!"

5.85: "Of all men you will certainly find the Jews, and those who join other gods with Allah, to be the most intense in hatred of those who believe; and you shall certainly find those to be nearest in affection to them who say, We are Christians.'"

Here are some quick comparisons:

"Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them find you rigorous." - Mohammed (Qu'ran, 9.124)

"To love [God] with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." - Jesus

"God loves no infidel." - Mohammed (Qu'ran, 2:276)

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners [infidels!], Christ died for us." - Paul

"Whoever offers violence to you, offer you the like violence to him." - Mohammed (Qu'ran, 2:190)

"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." - Jesus

-- Anonymous, November 30, 2001

The uninterrupted spread of Mohammedanism is "one of the most remarkable facts of history." This is a quote from "Forgery in Christianity," by John Wheless, written several years ago.

"The danger which this fanatic religion offered to Christian faith, in countries where the two religions came in contact, was not to be lightly treated." This quote is from the Catholic Encyclopedia (i, 620-1)

-- Anonymous, December 12, 2001