Does anyone have a recipe for a laying mash I could have mixed up at my local feed mill that is high enough in protien without any soy?

Thanks!

-- Tiffani (cappello@alltel.net), November 20, 2001

Answers

O.K. I can't help it, just got to know........why does it have to be soy free???

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), November 21, 2001.

I have been coming across some research showing that soy based animal feeds are harmful to the animals and the poeple who consume them or their products. It has something to do with the estrogen in the soy. I have a friend who is a very good nutritionist who has been trying to warn people about the dangers of soy for some time and now has discovered harmful effects in animals as well as humans - particularily birds. Wish I could tell you more. I am still researching this one. But what I have seen has made me feel like giving up this source of protien in my feed. Try www.soyonlineservice.co.nz

-- Tiffani (cappello@alltel.net), November 21, 2001.

Thanks Diane! I wanted to know also. How odd that as I am 44 now and adding more soy to my diet, folks are taking it out of their stocks diet. My feeding program for the goats have always been based around soy for protein, and its what the hens eat besides free range. With the cancer rates and longevity of the Asian populations, I would think moving more towards what they are doing is the key, not futher away. Course as adult females, just like our bucks :) watch out for to much protein in our diets! The same premise of urinary calculi caused from the change of protein to acid in the bladder then covered in calcium to prevent burning of the urethra, you can see where excess protein in our diet would also pull calcium from our bones and blood. I am sticking with what has worked for me with my goats, old as dirt, and also what is working for my Mom, still riding every day, another 2 National wins with her Arabs this year, and she turned 76 Monday! Course I do understand we aren't chickens :) LOL Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

From what I understand, Asian populations (until recent years) have eaten their soy products fermented in the form of traditional soy sauce, miso, tempeh and tofu (the modern store bought version we have today is not fermented in the traditional fashion). Prepared in this way, soy is a healthy form of protien in the diet. The fermentation process breaks down the estrogen and phytic acid (that blocks mineral absorbtion in the body).

Without a doubt, soy can alleviate some symptoms of menopause because of its estrogen content. Most of the research being done today is showing harmful effects in infants fed soy formula and in young children and young adults.

I am not sure if soy would be harmful to ruminants whose food is fermented as it is digested. The research I have seen alarmed me - particularily with regard to human health effects. So I thought it might be wise for me to elliminate this from my chickens ration until more info is available. Although I must admit, I have never had a single health problem with my hens in the 3 years I have been using a soy based laying mash - but they do mostly free range - so I cannot be sure.

I do hope you folks will look up the info on the website I listed above and also at www.WestonAPrice.org under The Ploy of Soy and let me know what you think. I would enjoy getting some feedback on this issue.

A friend recently did some extensive research on the subject and came to the conclusion that soy was very harmful to humans. She said she discovered that most of the pro-soy health info was coming from the studies funded by manufacturers and growers associations. On the other hand most of the anti-soy info was coming from nutritional organizations that had no profit motivations. This prompted some of my own research. I also have a friend who is a nutritionist who is saying the same negative things about soy. All this has led me to be concerned.

-- Tiffani Cappello (cappello@alltel.net), November 21, 2001.

If your chickens are going to end up in the pot the soy isn't going to affect them. If you castrate roosters then the hormone worries are moot. What research do you have concerning soy fed chicken causing problems in humans? I always thought that chickens being well chickens would have estogen in them anyway. I thought that most of the estogen problems connected with soy had to do with elevating the estogen levels in men certainly a femnazi goal anyway. By converting the soy to chicken you're no longer eating soy. It's not like the stuff is pcb's or agent orange.

-- Ed (smikula@bellsouth.net), November 21, 2001.

Thanks Tiffani for the information! I will check out the website. I do know the little girl that I watch has done horrible on her soy formula, already at just 8 months old she rarely will even take her bottle or some from the sippy cup! If she was mine she would be on goat milk for her milk allergies anyway. And the stuff just plain smells nasty! Please keep us posted if you get any other information on this, and of course especially related to goats :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 22, 2001.

thanks for the link Tiffani.....when I get some time I will also do some reading. I know that my little goaties do terrible on soy milk replacer as I tryed once when I was raising kids from a goat dairy for market and didn't have enough goats milk. It was a disaster!! That was a lot of years ago.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), November 22, 2001.

Ed, I am going to try to get some research sources on this. While I have seen some of the information regarding human usage of soy products. I have not actually seen the research on the chickens. I am just going on what my research friend told me.

-- Tiffani (cappello@alltel.net), November 22, 2001.

I'd appreciate that Tiffani. Both my children used soy formular with no adverse effects. If you have to use a formular I'd recomend to for any child not allergic to soy. Like peanuts some people just can't use soy. But soy is one of the few vegetable sources of whole protien. But like any good thing if you over do it, it becomes a bad thing. A child at 8 months should be getting solid food as well as soy formular I would tend to believe that either that child is allergic to soy or has other physical problems which make the use of soy formular not a wise one. In your laying mash soy is only one component I think if you do not put gound up bugs in the laying mash to make up for soy then you would be short changing your birds. The protein to make eggs has to come from somewhere. I've been to the soy is the destroyer of mankind website and I really don't see any valid research merely organized ranting. His points on rape seed is seem far more valid though.

-- Ed (smikula@bellsouth.net), November 25, 2001.