OG Note: The support and opinions expressed by British Muslims in the following article are, I suspect, very close to those of American Muslims--if they would tell the truth.

Britons who join Taliban to face trial By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent, and Amit Roy (Filed: 30/10/2001)

BRITISH Muslims contemplating going to Afghanistan to join the Taliban's jihad against the West were warned yesterday that they could be put on trial for treason or murder.

Amid reports that a number of British Muslims had already died while fighting with the Taliban, Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, said even those who were lucky enough to return alive might find themselves jailed here.

A hardline Islamic group calling itself al-Muhajiroun claimed at the weekend that four out of "thousands" of British Muslims who had gone to Afghanistan to join the Taliban had died in the allied bombing.

British officials said they were aware that a number of British Muslims had gone to Pakistan with the intention of crossing into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban but the figure of "thousands" was thought to be exaggerated.

Asked by Arab journalists in London about the reports, Mr Hoon said: "I would hope that anyone who is contemplating going to Afghanistan does think very carefully about the consequences, both to them and their families, in terms of the grief they may suffer, as well as the legal action that might follow on their return, if they were to return."

The Home Office said there was a wide number of different charges that anyone who had fought on behalf of the Taliban might be tried under, which would "theoretically include treason".

Al-Muhajiroun, which is led by a British-based Syrian cleric, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, has warned of "a war within Britain" if any British Muslim is charged with treason for fighting with the Taliban.

However, the Home Office said: "Treason is probably not the most appropriate charge, although the law on treason would cover someone who joined enemies acting against this country."

They could also be tried for murder or assault in Britain for any acts committed abroad, a spokesman said. But the most likely charges would be under anti-terrorism legislation.

Mr Hoon's warning came as an opinion poll found that many more British Muslims would rather fight for Osama bin Laden than for Britain.

Sunrise, an Asian radio station, canvassed the opinions of 500 Muslims in Greater London, mainly of Pakistani origin and aged between 20 and 45.

An overwhelming majority - 91 per cent - believed the war was between the Christian West and Islam, while 98 per cent would not fight for Britain.

In marked contrast, 48 per cent said they would fight for bin Laden or for Islam. Another big majority - 79 per cent - said they did not support Britain in its war in Afghanistan. "The results indicate that Tony Blair's message is not getting through and the Government needs to work a lot harder," said Avtar Lit, chairman of Sunrise.

Al-Muhajiroun claimed that the four dead Britons - from Luton, Crawley, Birmingham and Derby - were killed when a bomb hit a house in Kabul where they were staying with other foreigners who had gone to help the Taliban.

They had arrived in Afghanistan earlier this month, a spokesman said. "They were declared missing in action after last Wednesday night's bombing on Kabul and on Sunday it was confirmed that they have been martyred."

Al-Muhajiroun released the names of three of the Britons, saying they were the team leader Aftab Manzoor, 25, Yasir Khan, 26, and Afzal Munir, 25. It withheld the fourth name at the request of relatives.

Sheikh Omar denied that his organisation had recruited any British Muslims to fight in Afghanistan.

"Our offices in Lahore are open for British Muslims and these men passed through there. Many Muslim families are leaving Britain to return to their homeland. Their first allegiance is to Allah, not to the Queen."

Al-Muhajiroun is one of a number of Islamic organisations being monitored by the police for potential breaches of the Terrorism Act 2000.

One British Muslim who took part in secret military training sessions in Afghanistan said he was a member of al-Muhajiroun and would return to help the Taliban fight British troops.

Abu Yahya, 26, of Plaistow, east London, said: "If the West goes to war against any Muslim country I have a divine obligation to join my brothers and sisters."

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001

Answers

Let 'em go. Just don't let them come back--if they survive.

If "The West" is so bad, why do they come here in the first place?

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

It's a question I always ask the very few expats I know who bitch about this country. I mean, I have my complaints but they're like "everyone else's," you know, Clinton, Hillary, income taxes, etc.

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

Andrewsullivan.com

MUSLIMS LEAVE FOR WAR: In the English town of Luton, the call to Jihad is real and strong, especially among some of the young. This report from the Times of London is deeply chilling. Here's Mohammed Abdullah, a 22-year-old accountant, in his own words: "There are people leaving all the time. Not just in Luton, but all over Britain. We, as Muslims, don't perceive ourselves as British Muslims. We are Muslims who live in Britain. All we want to do is go to Afghanistan to defend the honour and sanctity of Islam." The British government has now said that such individuals, if they returned to Britain, would be tried for, among other things, treason. Good for Blair. Meanwhile, according to a report in the Daily Telegraph, a poll of 500 British Muslims between the ages of 20 and 45 found that, "an overwhelming majority - 91 per cent - believed the war was between the Christian West and Islam, while 98 per cent would not fight for Britain. In marked contrast, 48 per cent said they would fight for bin Laden or for Islam." Okay, if that is not a fifth column, could someone please tell me what is?

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

Times, UK

TUESDAY OCTOBER 30 2001 Rage of Luton Muslims THERE is a terrible, visceral rage among Luton’s young Muslim brotherhood, a fury so powerful that already dozens of men, all British born and highly educated, have disappeared to fight for the Taleban. It has left parents terrified, the town’s mosques full of loathing and yesterday, as The Times discovered first-hand, seen journalists and photographers physically attacked.

Afzal Munir, 25, a newly married business graduate and one of two men from the Bedfordshire town killed in a US rocket attack on Kabul, worshipped at a one-room radical mosque situated in the Call To Islam Bookshop, above an insurance shop in the Dunstable Road. Within a minute of arriving outside the mosque, this Times reporter and cameraman were set upon by a Muslim man, who had rushed, enraged, from a halal butcher shop.

“You insult Islam, you corrupt Islam!” he screamed, smashing the camera to the ground and grabbing another photographer by the throat. “You don’t understand how angry we Muslims are!” Five other Muslim men joined him, surrounding us, as he demanded the other camera. Their sense of fury was frightening.

Five hundred yards away, outside Luton’s Central Mosque, the third largest in the country, Mohammed Abdullah, a 22-year-old accountant, articulated this rage. His words should serve as a warning to Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, who yesterday said British men joining the Taleban would either die in Afghanistan or face prosecution if they returned here.

“They want to die there,” Mr Abdullah said. “These are well-educated people. They have families. I knew Afzal. He loved his wife. But you must understand: all Muslims in Britain view supporting the jihad (holy war) as a religious duty. All of us are ready to sacrifice our lives for our beliefs.I am jealous of Afzal. He has reached paradise.”

He continued: “There are people leaving all the time. Not just in Luton, but all over Britain. We, as Muslims, don’t perceive ourselves as British Muslims. We are Muslims who live in Britain. All we want to do is go to Afghanistan to defend the honour and sanctity of Islam. I have a wife who is eight months pregnant. But I am thinking of going and helping my Muslim brothers. I read that we are brainwashed. That is nonsense. We are intelligent people and we hate America and the British Government for the bombing.”

Behind such talk, which dismays the elderly leaders of Luton’s 22,000 Muslims, lurk the seductive, articulate disciples of Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, leader of al-Muhajiroun, the British Islamist organisation that encouraged Mr Munir and Aftab Manzoor, the other dead man, to join the jihad. Sheikh Omar, who is under investigation for allegedly issuing a fatwa against the Pakistan President, General Musharraf, described the two men as “martyrs beyond a doubt”. Shahed, the group’s Luton leader, admits that he urged the pair to join Osama bin Laden’s jihad — but not “physically” — by donating money.

“But if we write about issues, about what is happening to our brothers in Palestine, it can excite people. If I see Tony Blair on TV, and listen to his hypocrisy over Palestine, I want to grab his throat.”

The group has been causing problems in Luton since 1994, when Sheikh Omar and his followers tried to take over control of the Central Mosque. It, and other extremist organisations, now recruit outside the town’s 50-odd mosques.

Targeting the young, they repeat, again and again, that all obedient Muslims must support bin Laden and his holy war. They are banned from the Central Mosque and the university campus, but Mr Munir attended their Friday meetings. He went to school and college locally, loved cricket and football, and three weeks ago disappeared without telling his wife where he was going.

“He was a quiet, extremely religious boy,” Mohammed Sulaimen, president of the Central Mosque, said. “All parents are worried. Many have gone to join the Taleban, perhaps dozens. Afzal, he took his passport, some money, and he goes. This group, it keeps taking people, brainwashing them. They give them these pamphlets. It makes them angry. But what can we do? We can’t stop them going.”

Syed, a community worker, has visited Muslim communities across the country. “They are disappearing all over Britain. They say they are going down to the shops, and never return,” he said.

Shahed and supporters set up a stall in central Luton yesterday, chanting anti-American slogans and carrying banners.

“The Devil is America, and the British Government,” said Abdullah Khan, 23. “It is Bush and Blair I blame for Muslims going to fight. They are being provoked to do it by those two Great Satans.”

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

So you ask yourself, why is it that British Muslims are so outspoken, so fervent? Luton is a dreary working class town, full of immigrants of all races, especially Irish. There is high unemplpyment since many of the industrial jobs have gone overseas. From what I've seen, many American Muslims are better educated and emmployed. This is merely supposition on my part, I have no statistics for back up.

But I also wonder if the fact that we have a heavily armed populace has anything to do with the difference in public attitudes. After all, if you know that your neighbors might just blow you away if you express such views, well, you might keep your mouth shut. The last thing I want to do is foment hatred against an entire ethnic group. All I want to do is say "be cautious."

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

OG,

Nice catch and good words to heed. I can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001

cooler heads? should we have them wrapped in wet towels?

ok! ok! low brow humor. LOL

I agree, tho, let em go, just don't let em back in.

If someone wants to go over there and die, who am I to stop them?

I'd even help them get comfortable sitting astride one of our bombs, if that's what it would take.

I would assume that those that want to go cannot be made to understand that the US is NOT fighting Islam, but terrorists and a loathsome regime that supports those terrorists. In fact, that regime [Taliban] is in a sense a bunch of terrorists themselves considering what they have done to that country's people.

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2001