Check it out! Paranoia runs really deep in some places.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2001

Answers

Gosh John, you piqued my curiosity, now I have to go to the "land of paranoia" and see for myself......... :-)

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2001

Me too! I've never checked out FSR, but I think I will tonight.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2001

Yes, I saw it earlier today. I can't decide if I want to laugh hysterically, feel sorry for them, or be afraid that people's minds could actually work like that.

For those of you who haven't read the posts over at FSR, the jist of it is that they think the WTC and Pentagon attacks were actually done by our government to give us an excuse to start a war in the Middle East.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2001

Really liked YOUR post, Annie!!!

That thread just goes to prove what I have theorized ever since 9/11 - - that people's prejudices and paranoias will be raising their ugly heads BIG time.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2001

Well aren't we all the know it alls. Just because the thought of what these people are thinking is very upsetting,doesn't mean that they are all wrong. Do you have the evidence that it is not true.????? And what if it is true???????? WE don't know everything, we are tiny ants on this planet earth. We cannot see into the minds of those who are leading us. I don't see why this whole thing couldn't be a big sheme to convince us to let go of some of our freedom in the name of protection. Perhaps we are being manuipulated and lead.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Real good answer Annie--I just read an article on DrudgeReport that the FBI and CIA believe the anthrax mailings are homegrown. Vicki

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

I'm with Tren on this. I am probably less paranoid than most, but nothing would surprise me. I don't believe any of us "average citizens" really know half of what is going on in our world. But I sure am not going to criticize any other human for having individual thoughts - even tho I might not agree with those thoughts.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

And besides, has our government always been so honest with us that none of us have ever entertained a "disloyal" thought against them?!!! And our media coverage, as we all know, is less than accurate.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Interesting to see how people respond to stuff like this....

I guess I don't feel the 'government' actually was behind September 11th, but on the other hand, if it was, I wouldnt be shocked or anything. I myself believe virtually nothing that comes from the mouth of my government, because experience has shown me it usually lies.

It's easy enough to see why people would be suspicious. Worked well for Hitler, after all. And we sure as heck have a stunning motive for wanting trouble, and eventually control of the Middle East (OIL). Our whole way of life is about to go in the tank if we don't come up with alternative energies to run it, and the government has strangely been disinterested.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

I am pretty much in agreement with EM. Nothing would surprize me, although I personally didn't feel that my government did it. I really am disturbed by it ALL. What has happened as well as how people are reacting, and more and more just trying to be a peasant and enjoy the simplicity of my life. I have nothing to hide, but still hate the total invasion of any privacy that I see coming. It really all seems just too much to think about.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Em, that's exactly what I have been saying. Can't our government see the writing on the wall? We need alternate energy sources developed. When I mention to anyone that I believe our motivation for being involved in the middle east is about oil, I get the strangest reactions. It's like I must be crazy or unamerican. People are so afraid they may be deprived somehow by a change in where their power comes from.

I read the article about brainwashing which was linked over at FSR. I don't think our government caused Sept. 11. But I sure do believe we are being manipulated to rally round the flag even though we might just need to look at a few things our government is doing that may have been the terrorist's motivation. But hey, we're strong and powerful! The US can do whatever it wants. Right?

I am beginning to believe that what's right or wrong really has no relevance in this world. Maybe it never has. It seems that whoever has the power dictates reality. I'm not claiming to know exactly what needs to be done, but what's wrong with a little self examination? What's wrong with trying to correct wrongs and trying to look out for what's best for everyone (not just what's best for us)? I"ve posed this question before and been called a communist!

I didn't intend to write all of this. It just sort of came out. I'm frustrated! Thanks for reading.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Re: thread...

It's not just that type of thinking that is upsetting to me. It's the fact that folks get a notion about something and then want to take some kind of action themselves to deal with it....talk about the unabomber mentality. Looks like that thread is moving toward "so "what are you going to do about this deception? etc."

I think the current anthrax attacks are coming from some wildass maverick nutcase who believes crap like the United States is the manipulative enemy that some people seem to subscribe too. People can have their own thoughts and opinions (hey it's still a free country) but goading people into believing there's a conspiracy behind every door pisses me off. Probably some insane person feels that they are responding to the terrorist attacks of foreigners by trying to bio-attack those folks in D.C. who are the "conspirators."

I'm ranting aren't I? OOps. A little sound reasoning might be in order for a few folks. Sheesh.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

I guess I'm thinking that some of this stuff aught to be more carefully and critically thought about. I appreciate Trens thots and those who agree with her but my take on it is this:

If it was a plot by the US gov they'd first have to find SEVERAL, presumably American, operatives to carry it out and where are they gonna find people nuts enough to intentionally self destruct, to knowingly kill themselves and scads of other people just to promote some nefarious political agenda? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

The bin Laden connection however does make alot more sense and I can understand how they wouldn't have as much of a problem finding several people to commit these atrocities, all in the name of God of course with the promise of eternal paradise as reward.

As to the reliability of the gov information and the media, I take it all with a grain of salt but to automatically dismiss it is just as foolish to me as it is to unquestioningly believe it all. Again, when NATO breaks out article five in support of the USA and all the other countries who have jumped on the band wagon, however tentatively, there must be some cause because those things aren't done lightly.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Good points, John. To play devil's advocate though, why must the 'operatives' be Americans? If people filled with religious zeal think they are eventually going to a heavenly reward for their devotion, and that if they actually die as martyrs to that belief all the more rewarding the afterlife will be, it wouldn't really matter who was'behind' the plot, as long as they BELIEVED the cause was the defense and promulgation of their religion.

As to the other NATO countries joining the bandwagon, couldnt this just be a fear-based reaction? They could be equally afraid that NOT doing so would not only allow the terrorist movement to perceive their own country as weak/vulnerable, but also piss off the most powerful nation on earth?

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Snarky answer aside, if we were Know It Alls, then we'd KNOW who was responsible for the 9/11 terrorist murders, as well as who the Anthrax murderers are and do something about it, as opposed to postulating conspiracy theories without proof and further heightening the anxiety level in the country today. That kind of stuff just does the majority of the terrorists work FOR them, without them having to expend a cent or one erg of energy on it.

We've already seen prejudice raising its head with the murder of Sikhs here in the US. I'd rather not see who gets targeted for ritual stoning next.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

EM: Actually I considered the possibilty of American operatives posing as muslim radicals only to recruit others to do the dirty work but the way I understand it the suicide bombers are carefully brainwashed over an extended period of time and very closely watched by their handlers up until their time of "glory", which would seem to dramatically reduce the likely hood of this being a plausible scenario.

I know alot of people recoil at the racial components of this issue but the evidence is pretty clear that the Arabic Muslims seem to be the only ones who are turning out suicide bombers these days. Considering that it seems pretty natural to scrutinize and pay closer attention to those of Arabic descent.

As to those who are persecuting ANYONE simply because of skin color and obvious cultural differences such as the incidents with the sikhs, they are simply ignorant and misguided. I don't mean to infer however they should not be punished by the law. I only mean they are ignorant.

I was watching C-span a few days ago and the president of Turkey was on, swearing his allegiance to the war on terrorism. In his statement he said over 40,000 Turkish citizens have lost their lives to terrorist acts within their own borders, thus their own motivation to join the "battle". Their terrorists btw are also extremist muslims, wanting to return to old time religion when Turkey wants to become a "modern" nation.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

I'm almost embarassed to admit it, but the first thought I had upon hearing about the 911 attacks was that dubya had done it.

I'm sure that's ridiculous, but that is what my reaction was. Maybe I took 1984 and Brave New World too seriously.

JOJ

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Speaking of 1984!

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rense.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Happy New Year It's 1984 -
Bush's Orwellian Address
By Jacob Levich
10-26-1

Seventeen years later than expected, 1984 has arrived. In his address to Congress Thursday, George Bush effectively declared permanent war -- war without temporal or geographic limits; war without clear goals; war against a vaguely defined and constantly shifting enemy. Today it's Al-Qaida; tomorrow it may be Afghanistan; next year, it could be Iraq or Cuba or Chechnya.

No one who was forced to read 1984 in high school could fail to hear a faint bell tinkling. In George Orwell's dreary classic, the totalitarian state of Oceania is perpetually at war with either Eurasia or Eastasia. Although the enemy changes periodically, the war is permanent; its true purpose is to control dissent and sustain dictatorship by nurturing popular fear and hatred.

The permanent war undergirds every aspect of Big Brother's authoritarian program, excusing censorship, propaganda, secret police, and privation. In other words, it's terribly convenient.

And conveniently terrible. Bush's alarming speech pointed to a shadowy enemy that lurks in more 60 countries, including the US. He announced a policy of using maximum force against any individuals or nations he designates as our enemies, without color of international law, due process, or democratic debate.

He explicitly warned that much of the war will be conducted in secret. He rejected negotiation as a tool of diplomacy. He announced starkly that any country that doesn't knuckle under to US demands will be regarded as an enemy. He heralded the creation of a powerful new cabinet-level police agency called the "Office of Homeland Security." Orwell couldn't have named it better.

By turns folksy ("Ya know what?") and chillingly bellicose ("Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists"), Bush stepped comfortably into the role of Big Brother, who needs to be loved as well as feared. Meanwhile, his administration acted swiftly to realize the governing principles of Oceania:

WAR IS PEACE. A reckless war that will likely bring about a deadly cycle of retaliation is being sold to us as the means to guarantee our safety. Meanwhile, we've been instructed to accept the permanent war as a fact of daily life. As the inevitable slaughter of innocents unfolds overseas, we are to "live our lives and hug our children."

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. "Freedom itself is under attack," Bush said, and he's right. Americans are about to lose many of their most cherished liberties in a frenzy of paranoid legislation. The government proposes to tap our phones, read our email and seize our credit card records without court order. It seeks authority to detain and deport immigrants without cause or trial. It proposes to use foreign agents to spy on American citizens. To save freedom, the warmongers intend to destroy it.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. America's "new war" against terrorism will be fought with unprecedented secrecy, including heavy press restrictions not seen for years, the Pentagon has advised. Meanwhile, the sorry history of American imperialism -- collaboration with terrorists, bloody proxy wars against civilians, forcible replacement of democratic governments with corrupt dictatorships -- is strictly off-limits to mainstream media. Lest it weaken our resolve, we are not to be allowed to understand the reasons underlying the horrifying crimes of September 11.

The defining speech of Bush's presidency points toward an Orwellian future of endless war, expedient lies, and ubiquitous social control. But unlike 1984's doomed protagonist, we've still got plenty of space to maneuver and plenty of ways to resist.

It's time to speak and to act. It falls on us now to take to the streets, bearing a clear message for the warmongers: We don't love Big Brother. ___

Jacob Levich (jlevich@earthlink.net) is an writer, editor, and activist living in Queens, New York.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 2001

Thanks for that, Joe. I wonder if there were a Democrat in office right now, taking away our liberties as Georgie is doing, would the nation, and especially the less-government-in-our-lives Republican types, would be so eager to rally round the Prez? Dunno....

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2001

BIG SISTER checking in! :-P Joe, I fixed your post so that the intended paragraphs showed up -- I couldn't read it all run together.

Well, I have, since 9-11, wondered if our government or powermongers manipulating the government had anything to do with the attacks. Other than pissing other people off, I mean. The hit on the Pentagon AND the suicide pilots pretty much persuade me against those thoughts. But then I wonder about the faked identities of the terrorists, and I wonder about the reports of some of them out in bars, whooping it up and obviously trying to be conspicuous . . . .

a powerful new cabinet-level police agency called the "Office of Homeland Security." Orwell couldn't have named it better. I haven't mentioned this on any of the forums (or is it fori?) I frequent, but I have been disturbed by the term "Homeland Security" since I first heard it. I don't know why . . . . Premonition? Intuition? Or merely an echo of Nazi Germany's "The Fatherland"? Maybe I'm just looney. But every time I hear it or read it, a shiver runs down my spine! And that whole article just gives me a knot in my stomach.

As for a Democrat in the Presidency, I dunno either, EM. BUT if it were a particular Democrat, specifically Bill Clinton, who had done all the same things as has GWB, I think we would all be deafened by the screams of outrage reverberating around the country. Personally, every President since the 1980 election (and a couple before that, too) has made me want to vomit, so I can't really comment on what it's like to like and trust our President; but apparently, it makes a difference in what people are willing to accept from whomever is in office.

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2001

"all truth goes through three stages, first it is ridiculed, then it is wiolently opposed, finally it is accepted as self evident".

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001

Oops, wiolently, is soppose to be violently! HaH! Just my strange accent coming through!

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001

Yeah, like Ensign Chekov (original Star Trek series)! Or are you too young to remember that, Trennie?

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001

Joy, thanks so much for formatting my post. IactuallythoughtthatwasdoneautomaticallyandIdidn'thaveanyideat hatitwasmesseduptostartwith!

JOJ

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2001