We were just wondering how many people on this forum actually live beyond the sidewalks? How many of you consider yourself homesteaders? Do any of you not have at least one family member who works off the farm.

We'll start. We live beyond the sidewalks, 25 minutes to the nearest Grocery Store (and sidewalk) and over an hour to the nearest Wal-Mart (thank goodness!!). We consider ourselves homesteaders, but both work off the farm once in a while. This includes doing contract work for Universities, substitute teaching, and doing handyman work. We estimate that our family of 5 needs about $1,000 per month to get by.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

Answers

None of us work off our farm. All four of us work together. (Hubby, Mum and Dad, plus our three children 5,3,1) We do however earn money on the farm. We store caravans for people for 6 months or a year. We are building up the livestock now. Anything we grow and sell will be putting enough in our freezer/pantry free. The only place I seem to spend money these days is the feed store or the builders merchants.

Alison

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

We are homesteaders in spirit, and somewhat in context. Our nearest towns are closer...8 miles for the nearest one. The towns are under 10,000 pop. but growing like weeds b/c we are only a few dozen miles from the population explosion of Puget Sound, more or less. We don't have any sidewalks and the area is zoned rural/agricultural. We have dairies and real farms, but we are seeing a lot more "agricultural" activities like floral greenhouses, riding/boarding facilities coming in, etc.,..stuff you would expect to see around the fringes of cities. It has changed in many, many ways since we first moved here 17 or 18 years ago. Our property in E. Washington is quite rural and we may get over there one of these days...depending on SO many other factors. The traffic situation here is completely untenable. We have the 2nd or 3rd worst traffic in the entire U.S. That's one reason why Boeing moved it's HQ to Chicago.

Mr. S. and I have both worked off-farm for most of the time we have been living here. In that amount of time we have accomplished most of our financial goals, which include having investments of various kinds to hopefully support us in our dotage. We have also occasionally dropped out of the employment workforce, either singly or concurrently, in order to pursue other things, mostly educations, sometimes vacations (sabbaticals, sort of.) Up until about a month ago, for example, neither of us was involved in paid off-farm work. We could probably support ourselves with just our farm labor and being as close to debt-free as we are if we had to, but at this point we would honestly prefer not to for *both* of us, as we still consider ourselves able to earn better money in the employed "other world." Mr. S. is now back at school and I'm going to do the breadwinner thing again. He worked to support my year going back to school last year.

I don't know *exactly* how much we actually need to get by per month. I do know that it continues to decrease all the time, which is what we have planned it to do. IMHO, I think sharing that information with others would probably be misleading anyway, since the cost of living and wages are higher (from what I have read) compared to other parts of the country. But what do I know?

Interesting question.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

We are homesteaders and raise almost everything that we eat and a great deal of what our critters eat. Gary does work off the farm about 6 miles from where we live, as the maintanence person for a rather large gated seasonal community. Low pay, good health benefits and lots of perks in that the dumpster provides endless treasures that we use for barter or flea market and people there like him and give him stuff that needs fixing. (like we got a generator this summer that needed some reworking and now can feel somewhat secure that we won't lose our freezers if we have a long power outage) We both worked off the farm at fairly high paying jobs for our area until we paid off the farm. We did go a year once with both of us full time homesteading, but decided that the health insurance was something we were afraid to continue without. During that time our income was just from the farm in the form of milk, cheese and veggie sales and I did some baking etc. for a flea market in the summer.

Our monthly expenses are approximately $350 (that would include utilites, house and truck insurance and livestock feed etc.) What trips us up always from just being at home is the stupid health insurance.

We are only 4 1/2 miles from a small town that has the post office, library, drug store and ma & pa grocery store and a couple of gas stations and a hardware store. Big stores are about 15 miles away. We live on a dirt road with very little traffic.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

Were in a semi rural area and have been consistantly decreasing our dependance on off site sources. Realistically, I doubt that any of us using luxuries such as the net and phone lines could truthfully answer that we were completly "beyond the sidewalks". Even the original western pioneers bought sugar, coffee and such, which had to be paid for with currency or barter. Even their bartered goods eventually became a tendered part of society. Isn't it amazing how far "beyond the sidewalks" the tenacles of technology can stretch? Instead of "homesteader" I consider myself a "reduced dependency society fringe dweller, requiring transportation for social interactions"

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2001

Well I live in the mountains but I'm more of the voluntary simplicty type than homesteader. I saved my money until I had enough to retire on (1200.00 a month). Right now I have no eletricity (grid), plumbing, or propane. So its pretty rustic right now. My 2 children are grown so I live alone. However my best friend Barbara lives about 45 min away in a small town so I stay there some. Quite, simple, and a perfect life for me!!.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2001

I live in a small town of 33,000 which will in the future probably be a suburb of another town of 110,000 pretty soon, 10 years down the line. We don't live in the country (yet), but my wife and I are learning as much as we can from all the sources we can muster and will confidently predict that we will move to some acreage outside our immediate area soon. My wife owns six Red Brangus cows, which roam her mom's acreage about seven miles west of us.

But when the BIG move? . . . don't know yet, but we're tryin' man, we're tryin'. . .

Basically, we want to have our children born in the place where we are now, for the immediate ammenities. Dang, we getting spoiled living in the city, but we know hard physical work and will continue with doing what needs to be done. Have a good one all.

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2001

thanks Kim and Dave, it was real interesting reading everyones answers.

There are not any sidewalks here. Should be maybe, cars go too fast for people to walk along side the road. I worry when my neighbor buggys her baby up the hill to see me. But when we go walking we walk alongside Farmer Shaws meadow. He doesn't care. He knows we won't hurt it anymore so then the deer that he loves, probably less ,as we are careful of his crop where as the deer have been known to eat and trample a bit. I knew when we settled here that it wasn't as far out into the country as I wanted, but you see Jims job is in Columbus, and he was pretty tired from his 72 mile one way trip to work, so we got as country as we could, still keeping his drive down to 45 miles. We are right on the edge where the rolling glaciered land turns into unglaciered hill. Where fields turn into woods. Where city meets country. We are within five miles of the sidewalks of the smaller town of Lancaster. To the north of us from our front porch is the world, to the back of us, our south, are the hocking hills, the woods , the caves, the wild places. I saw a painting once by a lady artist down in Athens. A country girl is standing in a field, wearing a skirt and apron, her hair bunned on her head. Her homestead behind her, a rifle raised in her arms. Her rifle is pointed to a city which threatens to cross the stream and the field. That picture has always stuck in my mind because that is exactly the way that I feel. If civilization comes any closer, I'm shootin! Well beings I don't even own a gun, I will probably be high tailen it instead, farther down south towards those wild places, farther away from the big city where land is cheaper. I hate being in debt, and the only thing that we are in debt for is our home, we could sell out and get even more land down southern Ohio for what we would clear from this. Then we wouldn't be in debt, but first you have to figure out how you are gonna support yourselve Plus, how are we ever going to leave all that we have already invested in on our little acre's here, in fruit trees, berry bushes, perinel plants and such. So we are in that crazy human predicament of being unfocused I suppose on that one. Do we consider ourselves homesteaders? Well yes, I guess we do. No, we don't support ourselves money wise from our land, but our spirits are fed by the fruits of our labor here. This is where our hearts are. Always. While Jim is at work, if his work provides thinking time, he is planning the of planting the garlic when he gets home, or wondering if he needs to drain the rain barrels, or figuring the best time to harvest the horehound. And our daily life here is filled with harvesting, tending to the gardens and chickens, preserving, and such. I would say that 75 persent of what we eat comes from our land, plus some for bartering, and gobs of preserves for gift givin.

I'm sure that there are many homesteads much more grand but we are homesteaders cause we work and love the land. I think that we started living this way because of our intense love of nature and wanting to be with nature and our need to feed our family healthy organic food. And the only way you really know what you are eating if you raise it yourselve. And I may be a bit touched but I really believe that food you raise yourselve is better for you cause it loves you! Because you are a part of each other. I looked up Homestead in the dictionary and said something like it was a piece of land with outbuildings that was farmed. And a homesteader was the person who did the work there. Yah, No little piece of land has been more loved then this one.

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2001

We're still well within the sidewalks, at least for the next 2-3 years. I did put in a small garden this year and I've been canning and freezing the produce. We both do intend to still work off the farm after we make the move. I plan to become self-employed as a herbalist and massage therapist, Keith will stay in the corporate world so we can have access to affordable health insurance. (I guess we'll have to get married somewhere along the line so I can get on his policy! hehehe)Our goal isn't to be entirely self-sufficient but merely to live a bit more simply and lightly upon the earth. I grew up in the country and I miss it.

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2001

We are on 20+ acres at the end of a paved road in the original farmhouse that owned a good chunk of this road. We have modernized it thoroughly, to include adding on, tile floors, new siding, large outdoor hottub, decks etc. We both have offices in the home and work out of them. R is often gone on the road for her consultation and workshops. My clients come here and I go to them as well. We are about 10 miles from a city of 20K and 25 miles from a university town, considerably larger. The majority of the acreage is field and we get it brushhogged occassionally.

Though we have had bees and chickens, we don't right now. Didn't even do any canning this year. Too many house projects (new shed, new sidewalk-4 feet wide, re-do of a bathroom, help with my nieces, raise a new pup).

We owe nothing on the house or the two cars. Our graduate school educations were paid off when we were in school and just after. The only fixed monthly costs are electric, water and trash that add up to under $75/month. Our gas is free. Food costs vary, as I like to cook well and often buy specially for recipes like osso bucco or such. This allows us to save quickly toward any upgrades we have done to the house, such as a new air conditioner, new furnace and other niceties. Next up is a new roof. All our money seems to go to the house right now and not savings, which is low.

I like Kirk's comment on voluntary simplicity because I see that as where we fit in. We don't plant large crops, just what we (2 adults) can use, including herbs, fruit and more. I've even made peace with technology.

Hope that gives you a picture of us. This has been an interesting question.

-- Anonymous, October 18, 2001

I'm not sure if we would be considered "real" homesteaders or not. We do raise or grow probably 90% of our food supply, but our home business is not homestead-related. We run an auto repair business which we are currently in the process of expanding (auto repair work is a good business here in Maine!!). This is our only income and our son is our only employee. I also have some income from the sale of milk, eggs and registered Alpines. This town would probably be considered rural. Population is about 1200 and persons/sq. mi. is 29. No sidewalks here!! We live on a fairly well-traveled road...there is really only one road that sorta loops around throughout the town. It's rather "touristy" here during the summer months since we are near the ocean, but we're far enough off the road it's really no problem. We have no neighbors that we can see. Pretty much surrounded by woods and the few fields we cleared ourselves almost 25 yrs. ago. This property was originally cleared and settled in 1749 and we are only the second family to live here on this 95 acres. Still uncovering old bottle dumps, stone walls and virginia fences! Our nearest town where I do what shopping I have to...grain, coffee, sugar, etc. is about 25 miles. That's where Wally World, Home Depot, Denny's, KFC, etc. are! Far enough away to not be a bother!! I do confess to buying my t-paper at Walmart, though :-)! But that town's (Ellsworth) population is only about 6000. Actually, I think Maine has very few towns with populations over 25,000. Our monthly expenses are probably a little higher than some of you folks. We are still paying a little on a mortgage ( 5 more years to go!) and with this garage business we needed to have a new pickup truck. As for self-sufficiency, we have absolutely no problems. Have a sustantial Y2K supply, a good generator, water supply and the desire... most of the time...just to be left alone!!!

-- Anonymous, October 20, 2001

Marcia.......you sure sound like "real" homesteaders to me!!! :>)

-- Anonymous, October 20, 2001

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Diane! I can only wish that our monthly expenditures were even close to yours!!!!

-- Anonymous, October 21, 2001

I did miss one big one TAXES. that is another at least $125/month. It took us a lot of years to get down to that figure. We drive ancient vehicles and wear our clothes right out. It is a satisfying life for us, but we know many would not think so.

-- Anonymous, October 21, 2001

Hey...the more holes in my blue jeans and sneakers; the more comfortable they are :-)!!

-- Anonymous, October 21, 2001

Thanks to all for your interesting responses. Sounds like we're mostly living in pretty similar settings. We weren't trying to get at whether people are homesteading or not - homesteading is an attitude that you can have wherever you live. Conversely, we have plenty of rural neighbors who are FAR from wanting to be homesteaders!

-- Anonymous, October 21, 2001

Diane, you're right, I left out taxes and insurance. Two things I pay regularly. Ugh. We pay health care yearly so it only hurts then (!) and luckily I forget about it or it would keep me up nights. But that adds up cause we want insurance coverage. The best coverage vs. cost we have found is through NASE (National Assoc. of Self-Employed). You pick from the menu so it can be as comprehensive or catastrophic as you want. Anyway with that for both of us (hey-we don't qualify as spouses or family) and car and house insurance...I guess that adds maybe $340 a month. Cripes.

And then there is the federal and state taxes beyond the property tax, plus we have sales tax here. Boy, this is an unhappy thought. Did I mention we spend $25 on on-line services a month? No cable or 'satlite deesh'. Phone is about $65 including long distance.

Ok, thats the rest of the story.

-- Anonymous, October 21, 2001

I haven't been avoiding this, just been gone . . .

I'm not literally among the sidewalks. There are none on the streets in the neighborhood where my house is. But they're there, the next neighborhood over. They put in curb and gutter on my street a couple of years ago (and made us pay for it, dagnabbit). Suburbia . . .

I have no concrete plans for where I'll go when leaving the sidewalks. I'm still in the thinking and planning stage. And even if I come up with a plan, it will probably change -- that's happened many times in my life already. Meanwhile, I still want to practice my gardening.

-- Anonymous, October 23, 2001

That was funny Joy...'concrete plans for leaving the sidewalks'!

-- Anonymous, October 23, 2001

Gee! I'm punny and I didn't even know it! ;-)

-- Anonymous, October 23, 2001