I am certainly just as disgusted as most *real* Americans at the mindless attacks on Islamic citizens and their gathering places in this country. Just as it's unfair to blame all Christians for the excesses of a few zealots, it's worse than wrong to assume that ALL Muslims, or even people of Middle Eastern origin, are somehow to blame for what happened in NYC and DC.

But that said, I DO have a question.

Where is the outright, unequivocal condemnation for what happened on September 11th amongst this nation's Islamic leaders? Where is the call for justice to be served from the heads of these local congregations?

Everyone in the US Givvermint, from Bush on down, regularly and repeatedly says, "we condemn attacks on Islamic Americans." Hey, so do I. Again: so do most decent, fair-minded Americans.

But don't you think it would help their case if some of the local religious leaders in each Islamic community would clearly condemn what happened on September 11 and call for the perpetrators to get what they deserve?

I'm aware of a few cases, but nothing across the board. Maybe I've just missed it. Have you seen this in your community?

-- Anonymous, September 28, 2001

Answers

Ted Kazinski's bro is more than a good American he's a good world citizen. Tough act to follow but our Islamic bros here don't seem anxious to try.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Carlos,

Indeed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if these people want to be treated as Americans, they should ACT like they care about what happens to THEIR fellow Americans.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Stephen: Just a thought, but perhaps the Moslem leaders in the U.S. ASSUME that it goes without saying. The only folks who have come out and said, "This doesn't represent Islam" are folks who understand the ignorance in the West of Islam teachings. Would your Christian leaders denounce a far-flung group who made claims to represent Christianity in their actions? I suspect they'd believe that it goes without saying.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita:

You might have a point, except for the attacks against Islamic believers (and middle easterners generally) by some ignorant people. Even in your example, I'd expect these set-upon Christians to protest that they are just as opposed to terrorism as anyone else. Hell, I'd expect them to do so as publicly as possible, just for their own safety.

Their silence speaks volumes. Stephen is right. Under the circumstances, silence is the safest way possible to applaud what happened.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Flint: I would agree that silence speaks volumes, but I wouldn't agree that it indicates agreement. You're using an old TB2K tactic here in assuming that silence indicates assent. Personally, I don't respond to half the responses to me. Why? Well, they're either stupid [as in this case], have no basis in fact [as in this case], or are simply intended to push my buttons.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita:

Let's just say I find your apology for them unpersuasive. Look -- non- involved Arabs in the US (or those of Muslim persuasion or descent) are being *assumed* sympathizers, and being hassled.

Now here you are saying that if YOU were unjustly accused of something, it would never cross your mind to point out that the accusation were unjust. You would simply take it for granted that everyone *knows* you are innocent, despite the obvious (and painful) evidence to the contrary. Uh huh. Right. Someday that might happen, for all we know.

So silence might not signify agreement, but any other conclusion takes one hell of a suspension of disbelief. (Still, I admire the contortions you must go through to find some other explanation. Remarkable acrobatics).

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

For Pete's sake, Flint, it requires NO contortions to ignore comments based on ignorance. Do you REALLY think that Cherri is obese? SOME folks do because they presented that opinion and she never denied it. Do you really think that I was a shill on TB2k? Some folks do because I never denied it.

Folks make accusations all the time. It's just what they do.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita:

I guess it's like the dog that didn't bark in the night. There are many possible reasons why it did not bark. The question is, which reason is *most likely*? Yes, yes, I agree it's possible that *nearly every* group of Arab-Americans either remains unaware of what happened, or simply cannot imagine any *possible reason* for anti- Arab sentiment. Uh huh. Never crossed their minds.

So you go to your church and I'll go to mine. I personally find that the single best explanation for the silence does NOT assume inherent Arab ignorance or stupidity. Hell, even if they ARE applauding the terrorism, you'd expect their spokesmen to condemn it anyway just out of self-defense.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Stephen,

FWIW, the local Islamic leaders in my community have spoken out against the attack in the newspaper, but the usual focus of the media seems to be threats or attacks against Muslims, and not their opinion of the terrorist attack.

Mohammed Ali, a Muslim, has also spoken out against the attacks on national TV.

There are not alot of nationally recognized Muslim "leaders" (I don't count Farrakhan as speaking for the Muslim community just as I don't think Falwell speaks for the Christian community).

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Flint: You would simply take it for granted that everyone *knows* you are innocent, despite the obvious (and painful) evidence to the contrary.

There IS no obvious [and painful] evidence to believe that "normal" moslems had anything to do with this. IMO, Flint, you're creating an enemy here who doesn't exist. Christians, Moslems, and Hindus [for the most] enjoy their faiths and worship as they see fit. Each has its radical groups that "go off". Would any of them want to be identified with the radical groups who "go off"? I don't think so. Would any of them feel compelled to apologize for the words/actions of the radical groups who "go off?" I don't think so.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita:

I'm struggling to parse out what you might be driving at here.

The painful evidence is that normal, innocent Muslims are being targeted by angry and ignorant people. Now, let's say you are a Muslim leader. You notice that your people in the US are being targeted for violence by those who want to take their anger out on just about anyone. By sheer bad fortune, your people happen to be in harm's way.

Now, what do you do to try to deflect this practice of mistaken identity? Do you try to point out that your people were not involved? Do you point out that you are just as American as any other American? Do you join in with everyone else in condemning the terrible crimes that have been committed?

Or do you just remain silent, *knowing* that your failure to distance yourself from what (at least somewhat) associated group(s) have done will cause at least deep suspicions of your loyalties? Why would you remain silent, as your people are beaten in the street, if expressing your genuine dismay might help you out, and couldn't hurt? At the very least, your silence WILL be interpreted as an expression of mixed emotions.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Flint: Sorry, but I've got to believe you're making this up as you go along. If MY people were/are being beat up, etc. due to the community's ignorance, why in the world would *I* think that anything *I* said would change their behavior? Ignorance is not something comforted by the words of one, or even a few.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita:

Well, because your silence will be misinterpreted at best, or *correctly* interpreted at worst. Neither Stephen nor I happen to be prone to logical errors or conspiracy theories. However, neither are we entirely innocent of human nature.

I guess you'll have to trust us on this one. This silence bellows directly into the ears connected to suspicious minds. The circumstances are too heavily publicized for your innocent claims of ignorance to hold water.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

NEW YORK—Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.

Above: God. "Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."

"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.

"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one- syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."

God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."

Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."

God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."

Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."

"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"

"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm fucking serious!"

Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.

© Copyright 2001 Onion, Inc., All rights reserved. http://www.theonion.com/

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita,

Terrible example.

Would your Christian leaders denounce a far-flung group who made claims to represent Christianity in their actions?

They do it all the time!

For example, when some zealous nutso starts taking pot shots at abortion clinics, or kills a homosexual, a host of Religious Right leaders from Dobson to LaHaye to Kennedy will immediately and unequivocally condemn it. They will call for said nutso to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Of course, their opponents then claim that their condemnation is "insincere," or that their fundamentalist teachings "created" the nutso in the first place, so they're ultimately responsible anyway, etc., etc.

The problem is, we haven't even GOTTEN to that point here yet. There have been virtually no calls from the Islamic community for the Taliban to be punished for harboring, aiding and abetting Bin Ladin.

On your other comments: Realpolitick. If I were being persecuted here in America, I believe I'd wear an American flag on my person to help deflect that! Or I'd put a flag on my car, or something like that. It would be cheap, criminally easy to do, and almost 100% effective.

Why won't they do that?

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Anita, I'll be fair, too.

A group of Pakistani clerics has tried to get the Taliban to turn over Bin Ladin, which is a very positive thing.

My point was, if more people of the Islamic faith would do this, it would go a long way toward easing the tensions.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

Stephen, your statement "among this nations's Islamic leaders" may be a misunderstanding of Islamic culture.

My local paper had two stories today about Islamic groups providing information in the Twin cities. One of them, the Muslim Council of Minnesota, is an umbrella group of 30 organizations including mosques and lobbying groups. The other, the Islamic Resource Group, is a speaker's bureau that provides explanations of Islam to schools and other groups.

There is a quote from the treasurer of the first group "In the Muslim faith,we do not have hierarchies. To impose somethingfromn the top is anathema to Islam."

In the U.S. there are no national Muslim leaders who can condemn the 9-11 attacks. It must be done locally, and this appears to be happening.

-- Anonymous, September 29, 2001

My local paper had two stories today about Islamic groups providing information in the Twin cities. One of them, the Muslim Council of Minnesota, is an umbrella group of 30 organizations including mosques and lobbying groups.

... which has OFFICERS -- leaders -- including, not only the Treasurer who made that (somewhat disingenuous) statement, but a President (who, to his credit, apparently worked to bolster Americanism and interfaith dialog amongst local Muslims). The local Arab-American Web site laments his passing here.

But that very Web site illustrates what I'm talking about, John. The main page doesn't condemn what the terrorists did, it simply offers condolences to the victims.

I'm a religious person who's spent most of his life amongst various Christian groups. I have listened to some masters practice the art of "speaking in code" and "speaking without saying anything." These sharpies know how to say things to soothe a crowd without really taking a position.

(You think politicians are bad? They could take lessons from some of these preachers![g])

The classic stereotype is the ultra-liberal preacher who won't come right out and TELL his congregation about his leftist beliefs. His sermons will be mindless pablum about God's love (because he's learned the hard way that, if he tells people what he REALLY believes, they'll stop coming to church and hitting the offering plate[g]).

On the other side of the coin, you have the ultra-fundie preacher who essentially believes that everyone's going to hell but he and his (small) flock. Suppose he's having a bake sale to raise money for the church. Someone asks him on the street: "do you think the Jews (or Catholics, or whatever) are going to Hell?" you're likely to hear the finest spin ever spun. He reserves that sort of stuff for his flock on Sundays.

(Again: politicians can't hold a candle to these guys.[g])

I see the same thing at that Web site. Hey, I'm gratified that they offer condolence and support to the victims of the tradgedy. But EVEN AT THIS WEB SITE, there is no clear condemnation of what the terrorists did!

Where's the statement that says,

"We abhor what these misguided individuals, in the name of Islam, did in NYC and Washington, DC. We call for these people to be brought to justice and urge everyone in the Twin Cities Arab-American community to offer any information that they might have to the FBI and other authorities."

It's not there, John. Why?

In the U.S. there are no national Muslim leaders who can condemn the 9-11 attacks.

I've already touched on this above. But for that matter, there is no one voice who can speak for Christianity or Judaism. There are sects, denominations and divisions in all religious groups.

But again: there are Islamic Web sites and newspapers. Why aren't they speaking out?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

Does this help you at all, Stephen?

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

or maybe this?

I'm assuming you have a cookie for the NYT in the above, and I apologize if you're sent to the registration page.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 2001

The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan Responds to the ATTACK on AMERICA

-- Anonymous, October 01, 2001

Stephen I expect the same from the Muslin community not condoning these acts. I also expect something extra. I expect them to fully cooperate in finding the true culprits and coming forward to offer information instead of keeping silent. They are probably the most efficient way we can get to the root of this terrorism and we need them. They can be more than just 'silent' in their condemnation of the attacks.

Anita, silence is a right bestowed on anyone in a court of law. Legally we can't force someone to speak on their own behalf to disprove their guilt. BUT, we can't conclude that they denouce OR condone the attacks because of their silence. Everyone concludes whatever they wish, just as you have concluded that you KNOW how they feel. Silly if you ask me.

-- Anonymous, October 02, 2001