Well, I'm not very happy today. Thanks to the terrorist attacks I have just lost all of my work until at least December, possibly January, and if this war gets out of hand who knows? I have one show in Orlando next week, close enough to drive to, but that's it. In addition I have lost about $40,000 on the stock market since last week- ouch! I was within a few months of having my mortgage paid off and settling down a bit to enjoy the farm. Now I don't know what will happen. Guess I can't complain too much, though. My family and friends are all safe. I am healthy, have a little money in the bank, and my pantry is still pretty well stocked, even though my recently-evicted roommate put a dent in it, LOL! Today I applied for a job at the local Hess station- they start new hires at $8/hr, which is a bit less than the $50/hr I am accustomed to. My friends think I'm nuts, but I'm not going to sit back and watch my savings dwindle indefinitely. There are so many thousands of people being laid off right now that I am happy to have the opportunity to work at all. I hauled a load of scrap aluminum to the recycling center today which I sold for $112, and stopped on the way home at a few stores to ask the managers to start saving cans for me. On top of everything else I am so freaked out by the idea of this war that I can't bear the thought of just sitting around all day waiting for something to happen. My dog boarding business has fallen off because so many other people's travel plans have been cancelled. Tomorrow I am cancelling my cell phone service and ordering window screens for my house so that I can quit running the air conditioner and save on my electric bill. What a pisser! Hope the rest of you folks are doing ok, and I hope this whole thing ends soon.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), September 20, 2001

Answers

We'll be thinking about you Elizabeth and we sincerly hope things work out for you. Being out of work is to put it mildly, a bummerI worked a temp job hoping it would lead to full time but budget cuts, you know now means nothing-I got my news back last spring though and have had time to adjust, plus my husband is full time/benefits so I can't complain (we just wanted to get stuff paid off a little faster) Best of luck to you.

-- Kelly (markelly@scrtc.com), September 20, 2001.

Got mine today. Oh well! Guess its time that I put all of the Frugal/homesteading tips that I have been reading about here to work. Know of any good site/forums other than this one? Lisa B.

-- Lisa B. (j5diecast@aol.com), September 20, 2001.

I hope things work out for the best. Maybe this is divine intervention. I would ask what you did, and where, for $50/hr., but obviously I can't get on now! I feel very grateful that my husband's job is basically layoff-proof (he's a firefighter, and of course they are always needed), but I am still nervous about what will happen around here. We live in a town that has a lot of stock traders in it by virtue of the general income level, and our church just finished a brand-new $6.5 million building project; if members' income is in jeopardy... I am ready to stop running the air conditioner here in Oklahoma anyway, but can't talk hubby into it (he's hot natured, I am cold!), and the rain keeps coming our way now also - where was it six weeks ago is what I want to know! Good Luck Elizabeth, and I will keep you in my thoughts.

-- Christine in OK (cljford@aol.com), September 20, 2001.

I do dog boarding also and lost some business due to cancelled trips. My husband is a land surveyor, and if the economy goes down so will the work, as people will not be building. We are trying to cut down as much as possible. We have dairy goats and I'm cutting down to only my best, worse situation they would have enough land to at least support themself without supplementing with hay and grain (like I do know). We will also have milk for our use. I am impressed that you will take a job to at least be doing something and supporting yourself. If everyone would do that instead of sitting around waiting for a job that paid the same that they had our economy would do a lot better. Hope things pick up for you.

-- Leslie in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), September 21, 2001.

Mine was a welcomed relief. I am looking forward to returning to college now that I have the time to pursue a new career direction. Focus on the positive aspects, not the negative. When one door closes behind you, there are many more to be opened. Look at yourself as you would a diamond, from all facets. Research prospective employment sources as to their needs. Then approach the ones that could benifit from your talents. Don't ask for a job, rather show the employer why he NEEDS YOUR TALENT AND SKILL. The prospective employer is looking for someone to fill a job, show them they need you because you can offer so much more. These days talent and ability are more marketable than degrees. Kids right out of high school are being hired to do programming, not because they have CIS certifications, but because they have talent. Hang in there, you can do it.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

Gez, if I was making $50 an hour I would have ALL my bills paid, the house repaired and all stocked up, money in the bank and retired in the first year! LOL

-- Karen (db0321@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

Hey Elizabeth:

Read your post and offer our best wishes to the future. Don't take the losses of your stock too hard; was the $40,000 dollars worth that much when you purchased it?

To my way of thinking, stock market profit isn't profit until it is cashed in and in your possession. Until then, it is potential profit. If you got in the ground floor (more than five or six years ago when the market was at 6500), then you lose the initial amount. Too many of us look at our income "potential" and think it is already ours. Not so, as you have already learned. My question is: where exactly did that money go? Uncle Sam sure was interested in your income right then though and you have payed taxes into it. You can look forward to having some tax relief this time.

You have a great attitude to looking for work and doing something about it now. Remember the old saying, becoming rich is not determined on how much you make; it is how you spend.

Hope your life improves soon.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), September 21, 2001.

Gosh, if we had $40,000 it wouldn't have been in the stock market...it would have been paying off this place! But I guess every body has different ways of thinking!

My husband started a handyman business in June of 2000 and that has been going great. We're thinking it will likely continue to do well because people will want to fix things instead of get new ones, will want to repair and update their older homes instead of build new ones, etc.

Best of luck in your working Elizabeth! It sounds like your frugal ideas are already taking hold what with the selling of aluminum and getting a lower paying job! Money is money no matter where you get it. Don't let your snobbery friends influence you...do what is right for your own situation!

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

what does unemploymeny pay in your area? Would bet its over the 8 an hour. Ill problaby will feel the hit next year, since the work season is almost over anyways. Ill be job hunting most of the winter this year

-- stan (sopal@net-port.com), September 21, 2001.

Wow, I knew we were pretty far down on the food chain, but what an eye opener for me. We could live about 5 years, at least, on what you lost on the stock market. I guess I should be feeling poor, but I am certainly grateful today. Our insurance company for the company my husband works for was headquartered in the WTC. My husband was hurt at work back in July and had surgery and was suppose to receive disability checks. Not a one yet........paper work has to be totally redone etc.etc.etc. If we were hand to mouth people we would be in big trouble, but we are not. We continue to fill every jar we can get our hands on as our contribution for the "war" effort. Sorry Elizabeth, this is not going to go away any time soon.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

Stock market losses aren't REAL losses until you bring them to book. If you hold the stock rather than selling, most or all of the theoretical loss will be regained as the market climbs back. "Losing $40,000" sounds impressive, but it's part of the situation you take on when you deal with the stock market, and that theoretical sitauation will be clawed back if you wait through the market variations - sometimes a few year's wait, of course, but more likely just months.

What IS impressive is getting out and getting enough money to get by on, rather than sitting back and spending what's left of your savings, so that you're then FORCED to bring the paper losses to book and sell at a loss.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), September 21, 2001.

Hi Elizabeth,

So sorry to hear of your job loss. So far I have been "lucky" and have kept mine, but have lots of people where I work have been laid off. Whatever you used to do for a living, can't you do that now as a freelancer or on contract? There are a couple of very good sites on the web for freelancers, or you could do what a friend of mine did and send your resume out with a cover letter stating you will work on contract. My friend used to be a corporate Lotus Notes Administrator but got fed up with the corp. life and so he now free lances. He gets 70 an hour which is less than other freelancers in his area, but he stays busy. Anyway, it is a thought though that you might try. Another thing, do you live near any farms? If you have any experience with farms you can get paid to farm sit, so owners can take a vacation. Some people here won't board their dogs/cats out, but pay a much bigger amount to have someone come to their home and feed, water and walk the dogs and tend to the houseplants while they are away. Anyway, you can see I'm just trying to help, cause it is really a pain to be unemployed when it is through no fault of your own. By the way, I made my screens for our house using rolls of screening material and wood molding (the small, thin kind). Much cheaper than buying screens and they have lasted eight years so far.

Good luck, Cindy

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), September 21, 2001.

Wow, you have all offered excellent advice, and moral support. Thank you so much. Cindy, I looked into making screens once before but all the parts were aluminum. I have wooden windows and wanted wooden screens, but I never thought of using molding strips. I am definitely looking into that right away. Unfortunately the money I "lost" was principal. I do believe that it will regain it's recent price eventually, so I will hold onto it and see. The down side is that since I refuse to sell at a loss I cannot use that money for current living expenses, hence the need for alternative employment. Also, the money was meant to pay off my mortgage, but I was a little short so I kept what I did have in a trading account. Whenever I was home for awhile I was day trading stocks and making more from that than I am paying in interest on my mortgage, so it seemed like a good deal until the war came along. Who knew! Cindy, as a matter of fact I am a freelancer, which is why I am now unemployed! Friends who work full time for production companies are still employed. I work in the entertainment business and right now all of my shows have cancelled through January. I did hear a rumor today though that there might be a show in Houston in October, so there is a glimmer of hope. Right now producers are pretty worried about getting people from out of town in to do the shows, so they are hesitating. Once this war actually starts I think people will settle down a bit and start rescheduling. Oddly enough the talent on the show I was supposed to do in Vegas last week was Whoopi Goldberg. Apparently she travels on a tour bus because she refuses to fly. I'll bet her accountants quit hassling her about that bus now! Anyway, I'm not too worried about myself right now. As long as I am able to work I will. I had 2 roommates this year who failed to meet their financial obligations due to unemployment or underemployment and I tried to give them both advice, which neither of them took. Now I get to try that same advice myself, LOL. Thanks again for the encouragement.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), September 21, 2001.

With all due respect, $40k is a down payment on a house around here. It just depends on where you live, I guess. I never made $50 an hour, either. Again, depends on where you live and what you do...

We lost a bunch on Wall Street, too. I'm not going to worry about it, because while it is significant, I expect it to come back. If it doesn't, oh well....life is a lot more than just money. We have tried to diversify our investments over time. We own some assets outright, etc. I think the best investment I have is my Roth IRA, which has been earning something like 3% since Y2k....what irony. People have been telling me that I have been insane to be only making 3%. However, since it's my *retirement* money, I have kept it as safe as I could. Better than losing 20-30-40% over the last year.

Best thing is to be frugal, no matter what your income, assets, investments, or where you live. Always better to save what you can. Just my $.02 (oops!)... now down to $.01!

Good luck to you. I have benefited from The Dollar Stretcher (Gary Foreman) online. Tons of information, especially in their archives. Of course, tons of information right here on CS forum, too.

btw, I just accepted an $8/hr job today! I'm in the chips!

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), September 21, 2001.

Don, a loss in equity holdings is a loss whether it's realized or not. There's no such thing as a 'paper loss'. That's some b.s. the big house firms tell their clients. Holding until it comes back might have worked in the past but I know of 100s of stocks that will never reach their 1999,00 prices again, not in our lifetime if ever. Not just small cap nasdaq internet issues either. It is a REAL loss whether you book it or not.

I was disturbed this weekend when I heard some brokers promoting buying stock this week. They knew damn well their firms were planning to dump. That kind of stuff has gone on alot for over a year now. I've seen big house firms like ML or Goldman put out 'strong buy' recommendations to the public and meanwhile their market makers are selling all they can. The average person doesn't have access to Level 2 quotes that allow you to see what's really going on.

A loss is a loss whether you've sold or not. Try using your holdings for collateral or try explaining 'it's only a loss on paper' when your broker calls you with a margin call. The market has changed alot these past few years and the old rules don't apply. Investors got pretty spoiled the past few decades. I know so many people who lost fortunes the past year because they followed the 'it'll come back' theory. If only they took their losses when they were small..

Most people making money this past year in the market have done it by either shortselling(selling stock you don't own, buy it back after it's gone down, collect the difference) or through put options (basically a leveraged bet on downward price). The brokerages you have your holding at were most likely shortselling your positions. If you're buying stock, the most important thing you can do is follow it with a 'stop loss rule', 10% is a good point, if you lose 10% of value, get out, you can always get back in. Following that rule religiously will nearly guarantee you'll never lose more than 10%. If you have alot of holdings, buying index put options every 6 months or so is cheap insurance. Don't depend on your brokerage firm to guide you, they'd much rather pass you the bag.

Take a look at this, something I've followed for 10 months now and became a believer in back in the winter, it seems nearly impossible but damned if it's not been pretty correct. I keep waiting for it to be wrong but it hasn't yet. It's simple technical analysis compared to most done in the market but it's been more correct than anything else I've seen. nasdaq,nikke i, gold, djia correlations

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), September 22, 2001.

also, it could be alot longer than a few years before the overall market recovers. The nasdaq itself is down over 70% from its high. It'll take the index tripling from here to get back to it's level less than 2 years ago. That could take decades without another 'bubble' which is very unlikely to happen again in our lifetime. Japans stock market is hitting 18 year lows, there's little stopping ours from following the same path. Stocks are a great vehicle for gain if you use stop loss rules but land and a few other things are much better investments.

-- Dave (somethings@somewhere.com), September 22, 2001.

Hopefully people here that had a choice bought stock in sectors that will have a greater than market average recovery rate. However, many folks invested via their 401ks etc., and had more limited choices in what particular stocks or sectors could be purchased. I have an insurance account (for myself) for example, that had asset allocations that didn't have a lot of variety. Other than the amount of risk I was prepared to accept (which actually turned out to be more than anticipated!)I didn't have much control anyway...other than cutting the checks for premiums...

Staying diversified...stocks, bonds, precious metals, real estate, sheesh, even fine art and wine, is a nice goal to set, but not always that easy to achieve for most of us.

Lots of folks' security is having a job that they can count on. Folks on here might find it's rather in having sustainable land that they can count on keeping.

I hope everyone can keep their job(s) and their land.

-- sheepish(WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

Well Elizabeth believe it or not ive lost my job all the way over here because of the events of the 11th - for my company who was launching an awesome product destined for the states they were hit hard so I was layed off - so its effecting the whole world as well.

As for your stock losses OUCH! That burns you could almost buy a small house for that over here and I know that I'll never get $50 an hr in my lifetime ever so don't know what it would be like to lose.

-- Jen in New Zealand (heavenleigh2938@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.