I'm getting my BOB ready...how about you?

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

Answers

Would you believe that I have never made one?

Guess I ought to sit down and list what I want, huh?

We have limited space in the truck. No extended cab, and no cover for the bed. The car has plenty of room in the trunk, and yet we only have the roadside emergency kit in it, along with a couple damaged wheel covers that I need to replace. Those concrete road barriers are hard when you slam into them at 50 mph. [it was only the wheel covers that were hurt, the car itself is fine. rainy weather, ya know.]

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

Water is good choice. We used to advise tablets for making the water safe from normal germs, but...maybe you ought to have at least one liter person in the car.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

This could be in a BOB, but this is what I have at work right now to help me to get home. It's not stored in plain sight but easy to access if I need it:

- wonder bar (for prying open windows or doors)

- 200 feet of rope, gloves, and clips (if I need to crawl down the bldg)

- whistle (for signalling)

- reflective blanket

- flash light

- radio (I just changed the batteries)

- work boots (thick socks stowed inside)

- first aid kit (from Wal-Mart - stuff I know how to use)

- bottled water

- crackers

- TP and waterless hand soap

- change and small bills

- extra ID

- Map of the area/compus

- something for self defense

I may add more food and a fleece sleeping bag and pillow, which would make staying overnight easier. I may also add a CB radio. I'm somewhat limited as to what I can store because I don't want it to be visible.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

1. camping towel (can be wetted and used over face)

2. saline eye drops

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

meemur,

I had to re-read your post above. For some reason I read "wonder bra" where you had "wonder bar". OOPS!

apoc

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

Hey, good idea. Could be used as a slingshot in an emergency.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

Well, I guess some hooker-types might include a wonder bra in their preps.

I've been reading and typing reversed letters all day today, too.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

So you folks are prepping a bail out from city, right? Just checking.

-- Anonymous, September 22, 2001

not everyone lives in 'the city' so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

The 'bug-out-bag' is just something that folks can keep handy, where ever they are.

Many folks carry stuff in their car for emergencies while on the road such as flat fixer stuff, oil, radiator fluid; but few actually think of things like a change of clothes, food, bedding or things of that nature. Unless they are getting ready for winter driving.

-- Anonymous, September 22, 2001

I live in a city and am not prepared to bug out. If I can't take the cats, I'm not going. Seriously.

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2001

Staying in the city is a wise choice - as long as you have made the commitment to prepare as best you can for the area you live in. When I think of "holding-Out" in the city, what comes to mind is a.)can I defend my home alone, b.) remain secluded to avoid unwanted attention, and c.) have on-hand enough supplies to last as much as 14- 30 days in the event or a major incedent (flood/earthquake/civil unrest/etc.).

My two-cents worth. Best of luck.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2001

Thanks, Steve. We can do all those things and I believe we can count on most of those neighbors in the immediate vicinity.

Something I might mention here for those in the same situation. We put energy-saving film over the windows. Yes, it does save energy and prevent fading on furniture--it also obscures the interior from the exterior! It doesn't work so well if a light is on inside, but is very effective in daylight hours. We're ot as close to the street as most city houses would be but I like the privacy aspect anyway.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2001

Heck, I've had a BOB of some sort as long as I've had a driver's license! That way of thinking comes to me by way of genetics; my grandpa would not dare dream of going even across town without having 'stuff' in the car you might need if you couldn't get home. This concept was drilled into me at an early age.

Tip: Didja know that a regular size roll of TP will fit (snugly) inside a 13 oz coffee can? Keeping your "travel TP" inside the can keeps it clean, dry, and from unrolling. :-)

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2001

I need about a gross of coffee cans. . .

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

You can't really address what should be in a BOB until you have decided where you are bugging from and to.

I will be sheltering-in-place once home. My BOB is strictly to get me from my high rise urban office, to my distant car, and then home. Comfortable shoes, extra warm clothes, water, snack, flashlight (to walk down 38 flights in the dark), street map (so I can get to my car no matter which transportation stop I start from), pocket radio (to catch the latest news - there was great chaos in D.C. on 9/11), face mask and swimming goggles (just for smoke and dust), dosimeter and KI tablets.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

Radio--Ccrane.com has wonderful credit-card-sized ones--maybe two or three--with earphones. I know one is a Sangean, which is very good quality.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

If you run out of TP, you can use newspapers. Not as nice, but they are compact. You could make "dooo" with one thick Sunday newspaper for quite a while. >;)

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

The bug-out-bag in my car is a combo of items, for many different uses. Its first was to be for in case of being stranded in winter, part for first-aid/survival while hiking off trail, and finally, now, for in case of evacuation from home. The preps are for Mom and I.

The "bug-out bag" is more of a "bug-out kit" that's in the trunk of my car. It consists of:

- Large dome tent - Multiple blankets (fleece or cotton) - Sleeping bag - Gas masks - Fire starter kit - Water purification tablets - Box of canned foods & 1 freeze dried dinner. Forks, spoons and can opener included. Canned foods included fruit, mineral laden veggies and Spam.

My backpack (usually carried while hiking and does double duty for first aid/rescue operations):

- First aid kit with regular OTC meds. (Aspirin, Immodium, Neosporin, etc...) - Medical scissors, heavy-duty for cutting denim, etc... - Thermometer - Bandages - First aid booklet & wildness medicine book

- "Platypus" water pouch. - 2 - 2-way radios - AA solar battery charger + AA nicad batteries - Parachute cord - 2 Buck knives (half serrated for cutting rope, half straight) - 2 Compasses, one with a glow-in-the-dark needle. - SAS Survival guide (mini book - EXCELLENT book - get it) - Survival cards (plastic laminate) - Knot tying instructions (plastic laminate cards) [More useful than you'd think] - 6' x 8' nylon tarp - Gerber folding wood/bone saw - Water purifying tablets - Nylon pants - Fleece vest - Water-resistant cagoule (think BIG, LONG raincoat - down past the knees) - Water resistant weather radio - Waterproof flashlight - Monocular - Mylar survival bag - Nylon windpants - Locking D-ring carabiner - Knife sharpening stone - "Cliff" bars (food - chewy granola-like bars) - 1 bottle broad spectrum fish antibiotics - 1 bottle potassium iodide (in case of dirty bomb exposure) - Coast multi-tool - nylon gloves

Yep, you just about need a forklift to carry it, but it does the job...

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

Sorry about the formatting in the post above - am not sure what went wrong...

P.S. Forgot to add that we also have another set of non-cotton clothes, wool socks and sturdy shoes in the trunk as well as the other preps.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2001

I reckon I am one of the few over this side of the pond who bother with BOBs (many just dont baaaa-lieve anything could happen), but there are a few of us, and keeping it fairly simple, we (my missus and I) have 3 levels to ours:-

5 seconds warning - a small belt pouch containing locking knife, shapener stone, folding toothbrush, ranger flint with cotton wool pads, small can opener, metal mirror, antiseptic wipes, plasters (erm..."band-aids"), fish hooks split-sinkers and line, space blanket, 2 * birthday candles, multi-vitamins, painkillers, water tabs, imodium + a mini multi-tool and tiny mag-light in my pocket. plus my watch and mini-compass.

5 minutes warning - a 25 litre backpack with: change of socks, shirt, trousers (..."pants"...!), sweatshirt, poncho, hat, gloves, 2 packs of vacuum packed reheatable food (first hot meal), mini-mag, seira (style) cup, trail mix, mini-stove (folding with fuel blocks),1 gallon collapseable water sack, "snack" bars (cereal, fruit and nut), plastic "army style" water bottle, knife/fork/spoon set, full first aid kit (including burn bandages, anti-septic cream, aesthetic cream, hypo-alegenic adhesive strip, penicillin etc.), boot-glue (for repairs - get the good stuff), 20 * birthday candles, more puri-tabs (can you have too many?!), portable radio (with spare batteries), 2 saftey razors, shampoo, soap, towel, 50 foot of para cord, ID documents, oh and of course TP (its weird how many people forget that bit) :o)

1 hour warning - includes our bows (50lbs mongolian recurves) with 'suitable ammo' :o), 2 * 5 gallon water containers, fish rod and gear, 4 * wool blankets, 20 metres of 400lb breaking rope, maps of each county we could bug-out to (giving us a choice based upon situation), quality walking boots (well worn in (and dubbed)), Compass, assorted seed packets for future food supply,

There is probably more, but if I started emptying out in the office I'd get the weirdest looks ;o)

The key after that is practice. We took the kits on holiday with us recently (to the wilder parts of Ireland) and checked out their usefulness, packing, comfort etc. Keeping it light worked really well (and we are now making up compact versions for the kids).

Hope this helps / is of interest.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Welcome! Mother of All Despots here--from Notts, Yorks, Beds, originally. (And various and sundry US states). How very organized you are! The more athletic of the lazy sods on this forum will be happy to learn from your ideas. The rest of us, some being pathetic old gits like me, are going to have to survive in place if anything happens.

For those wondering, "boots dubbed" means they were treated with "dubbin," which is a waterproofer.

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Am I a SOD???

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Depends on what a sod is....

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Kinda like a bugger. English slang, vulgar but not beyond the pale. Like me, lol!

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

So are you a bugger Helen? If so, you're also a sod I guess...

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

'Sod' = 'person' but in a slightly derogatory manner, usually acceptable between friends but a little more insulting to others. ;o)

Leap's Friendly English / American Dictionary Services :o)

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2001

Luckily, we're all friends here.

P.S. Are you anywhere near Bishops Waltham, Leap? (As admin, I can see where your IP comes from!) Got some good friends there through being involved in Nato in Norfolk, Virginia.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Whoa! Big Brother Alert!!! ;oD

Should I call you "Old" or "Mr Git"? ;o)

Yep I'm in that neck of the woods - Hampshire (the original one!) is definately one of the nicest places to live. Used to rent a place in Bishops Waltham when I was a student

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Um, more like Big Sister alert. This Old Git is of the female persuasion. I expect the deep voice threw you off--all those ciggies and Glenlivet in my gloriously misspent youth.

Actually, I was checking your IP because I thought the address you use might be a real one :) We recommend not using a real one for many reasons, not the least of which is harrassment and stalking that's taken place.

Have spent some holidays in Southsea. Nothing like British coastal areas (we won't talk about Blackpool and Clacton!). Used to do a lot of "meet-and-greet" of RN ships when I lived in New Orleans. No, no, no, not what you think! Our group of expats used to throw parties and arrange shopping trips for the sailors. Lots of fun, of course. Then when I married my US Navy feller, we moved up to Norfolk and got to know some Brits there.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Hi Leap,

What did you have in mind for the birthday candles? They burn down so quickly, I would think room could be made for a stouter candle.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Beggin' your pardon Ms Git! ;o)

Southsea?! I work in Portsmouth! :o)

Hiya Brooke

The mini candles make good matches - use the metal match to light cotton wool and then the cotton wool to light candles...they stay alight better than matches....and can be blown out and used again.

Keep 'normal' candles as well...for regular, well, candle use! :o)

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Where I come from "bugger" is a very, very bad word.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Helen, you're such a silly sod!

Translation: "cotton wool" = "cotton."

Leap, you can call me Git, like all these other reprobates--sometimes, when I get a bit heavy-handed, they call me Mother. Portsmouth: Does the Victory guide still tell that old joke about where Nelson fell? Sweetie has nicely framed prints of Nelson and Napoleon on the wall in his study (ha! read "playroom"). We would have had one of Wellington too but Apsley House was undergoing renovations and had put them away somewhere.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Erm, did we drift the thread again?

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

Thread?

;o)

Havn't done the Victory tour yet (or Warrior, which is birthed in the harbour)....

"Old Git" - International Arts Smuggler? ;oD

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2001

A "thread" is a series of posts constituting a discussion of a certain subject. Comes from "thread of conversation," I expect. "Thread drift" is not encouraged but we've got so many dingbats on this forum, we happily accept it.

The old joke goes that the guide points out the plaque on the deck where Nelson fell and says that an old lady remarked she wasn't surprised considering how far off the deck the thing sticks up.

The last time I went to Southsea (when I was 16) the temp was in the 90s, extremely rare in those days and I got the first suntan of my life, stretching out on the old WWII concrete gun emplacements or whatever they were. From what my dad tells me, 90s temps are not that unusual any more.

, we've got prints! Gawd, the Napoleon original is by David--wouldn't mind having that! However, it's a bit frou-frou with all that French Empire gilt an' all, and it's on the large side--I doubt it would fit on our walls.

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

Dingbats??

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

Shoe??

-- Anonymous, November 09, 2001

"A "thread" is a series of posts constituting a discussion of a certain subject. Comes from "thread of conversation," I expect. "Thread drift" is not encouraged but we've got so many dingbats on this forum, we happily accept it. "

Erm...I was being sarcastic ;oD

"The last time I went to Southsea (when I was 16) the temp was in the 90s, extremely rare in those days"

and STILL!!!

"From what my dad tells me, 90s temps are not that unusual any more." - not entirely (but bloody freezing now!!!!)

-- Anonymous, November 10, 2001

I had to turn the heater on a minute ago. The thermometer said it was 65 in here.

Was wondering why I was so cold...

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Erm...I was being sarcastic ;oD

I thought you might have been but was giving you the benefit of the doubt ;)

Don't mind Barefoot, Leap, he lives in Miami where a 75-degree day has people wearing jumpers. No, Barefoot, that does not mean people have been walking underneath high-rises where depressed people live, it's Britspeak for sweaters. What you call a jumper is a pinafore dress. The one I wore for school uniform was called a gym slip. Luckily, I speak American fairly fluently.

We had a slight frost here the other night (central NC). My begonias are still blooming, though, because they're in a sheltered spot. I also have this amazing violet cleome that grew to small tree size, branching out along the way. I've never seen one grow like that, although I'm sure they grow like large trees in Miami.

Leap, Sweetie and I were at Land's End at the end of December 1986 and it was raining horizontally. Great fun! But we had been in Norfolk not long before and there was a bit of a storm off the North Sea, which made the Land's End visit seem like a spring treat. The hotel we stayed in (The Queen's Head, as in Victoria) near Wells-Next-the-Sea was also bloody freezing. I don't think the heating system had been upgraded since it was built. Say what you like about the Yanks, they know about heating.

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Yup, yanks are definately experts in the area of "hot air" ;o)

Its down to a still comfy 10 deg-c here now (although nights keep slipping to minus something )

and...erm....what is NC? :o)

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

Bug out wise (shock! horror!) ;o)

How do you guys go about finding Anti-biotics - do you get OTC supplies in the states or are they all perscription based. I have heard of anti-biotic gell/paste but am unsure if it's more than a 'rumor'.

There is a real dearth (trans. "Lack") of suppliers of MRE / 5 gallon tubs of peanut butter etc. / anti-b's over here and was wondering if there are any recommendations for mail order - assuming someone doesn't spot the "747 into a nuke power station" possibilities (or even taking out a large number of conventional ones) in the meanwhile!

-- Anonymous, November 11, 2001

You tell me why "Hants" is the abbreviation for "Hampshire" and I'll tell you why "NC" is the abbreviation for "North Carolina" ;)

There are numerous suppliers of 5-gallon buckets of stuff--my own favorite is Lumen Foods in Lake Charles. Don't know if they have peanut butter; not one of my favorites :) Aventurefoods.com in North Carolina is a backpacker supply place, but they have some of the best quality dried stuff, which you can buy in any quantity you want. They may even have powdered peanut butter. Besides that, I like the folks who run it.

Antibiotics--have you tried a tropical fish shop over there? The antibiotics used for fish are the same as those used for humans--penicillin, tetracycline, etc. If not, see drsfostersmith.com--a great favorite of mine for about 15 years, since we have all these cats and frequently need pet supplies. They have antibiotic ointments as well, but those can be obtained OTC here. You might find their suture kits of interest too :)

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

You tell me why "Hants" is the abbreviation for "Hampshire" and I'll tell you why "NC" is the abbreviation for "North Carolina" ;)

I'll give it a go...;)

"Hants" is a shortened version of "Hamps" but it wasn't pronounced correctly and no one could spell at the time, and so now they're stuck with it.

NC is the official Postal abbreviation for North Carolina. The USPS went to a two letter abbreviation for each state to simplify the automation process.

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Hello there Leap! Nice to meet you!

In case you're interested, there are some "preps" for if a nuke station gets vaporized. Potassium iodide/iodate that will fill up your thyroid, protecting you from getting thyroid cancer down the line. (Of course, this is no help in protecting you from the explosion or radiation sickness, but at least it's a help...)

Here's one site, that I bought mine from:

http://www.ki4u.com/

They've been known to take money orders too, in case you don't want to do payment via the Web.

There are also other sites that sell these iodide pills, but I don't have their links handy at the moment...

Best wishes,

Deb

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Ol' Git

I never realised Aquariums' used penicillin!

I will look into that - but am concerned about dosage.

Cheers for all the info though - am looking into them all (hey! waddaya mean 'work?') :o)

Deb - thanks for that info (Gee, this intray is looking awefully full) :o)

Leap

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

I have noticed a marked preference for 'firearms' (from .22 to BFG) amongst the 'preparedness' oriented, with many making a major point of "stock up on ammo"...however...in an EOTWAWKI situation, the industry needed to manufacture refined bullet casings (not to mention the contents) will simply not be available. Bullets are a short term solution, and although useful for immediate protection (via handguns), beyond that are not a sustainable approach.

This is why I advocate the use of the Bow - arrowheads, flights, shafts, even bowstrings and bows, are far easier to manufacture (and maintain) than firearms in a longterm SHTF situation. The bow is also silent - a MAJOR plus in a bug-out situation.

Although in a suprise / response situation the gun is faster, and generally more accurate (or at least easier to learn), the bow is definately my choice over the longer term (and attracts less negative attention - especially over here, where guns are seen as a major social evil....and you thought Wales had more sheep than England) ;o)

any thoughts or comments folks?

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

I have my very own shotgun, for which I have had training, you will be happy to know, and we have a comfortable supply of shells. If a situation arises where we need something beyond that, the young 'uns will have to fill in because I couldn't hope to hit anything with an arrow, despite being born near Sherwood Forest.

We are not considering a bug out.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

P.S. Leap, be sure to check this link.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

erm...what link?

(giggle)

;oD

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Aw, hell. This one?

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Hang on. I have to go in the innards and hit something with a spanner.

Okay, both links work now. The software truncated the link and screwed it up. The software's not perfect but the price is right :)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Whoa!

Cheers Git!

;OD

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Our local news station...Terrorist Attack Survival Plan

nbc 6 Miami

NBC 6

MIAMI, November 12- In South Florida, we know how to prepare for a hurricane. But since September 11th, experts are advising every person and family that they need to be prepared for another kind of disaster --- a terrorist attack.

Both the American Red Cross and South Florida emergency managers now say we need to be ready for another World Trade Center, or bio-chemical type attack.

Some simple items -- in a kit like this, and some pre-planning can help you survive this new kind of threat ---which poses new survival problems and will strike suddenly.

The Daniels family of Pembroke Pines is prepared for disaster. They have a one-year supply of food in their cupboard and more emergency supplies tucked away under their bed. Their Mormon faith encourages food storage, but after September 11th, their way of life has taken on new importance.

"What I think that happened September 11th not necessarily changed what we were doing, but I think that it woke up a lot of people to the necessity of food storage, to the necessity of being prepared," David Daniels explained.

"We're not going to have three day notice like you do with a hurricane."

Britt Peemoller of the American Red Cross says survival kits and plans for a terrorist attack pose new preparedness problems for us.

"This will be different than a hurricane supply kit because usually in a hurricane you will usually stay in your home. However at this time we don't know what's going to happen so you may have to leave your home and you want to make sure you have the things readily available and also easy to carry."

Survival supplies pre-loaded in a backpack, duffel bag stored under a bed, or waterproof trash can on wheels can provide instant mobility. Companies, like I-Prepare.com, sell ready-made, ready to-go kits: for home, office or car. Besides portable food, water and first aid supplies, the kit includes special items: dust masks, waterproof matches, whistles to signal someone if you're trapped, water purification products, heavy gloves, even a tiny portable stove that comes in a 6-inch box.

"You may have a power interruption you may have a water interruption," warns Carl Fowler of Broward County Emergency Operations. He says any survival kit should include these basics.

"First aid kit -- which would include band aids, medication, trash can bags, duck tape, energy food gallon of water food person per day for 7-days."

You should also have cleaning and personal hygiene products: flashlight, radio, batteries and a change of clothes. Credit cards may do you no good at all.

"Get a supply of money some cash enough for about a week and put it in an envelope and just hide it so when [t]he time comes they'll have the cash available."

Since September 11th, the demand to learn how to survive a terrorist attack has spawned a growing business.

"There are basic steps that we can take so that the affect of terrorism and bioterrorism in particular is minimal if any on us," according to Seth Eisenberg.

For a fee, his new company in Weston, Homeland Protection Inc., will develop a personalized family survival plan for you.

Says Eisenberg, "After we go through it, the family has an agreed upon emergency plan of exactly what they are going to do so that if god forbid a disaster does strike they're not trying to figure it out then."

Eisenberg says a good plan should include:

- How to evacuate your home, office or neighborhood.

- A contact, out of the affected area, even out of state in case family members can't contact each other.

- A meeting place, like a mall parking lot, if your neighborhood is closed off.

- And who picks up the kids from school.

Unlike a hurricane, your family isn't likely to be together when a terror attack strikes.

Eisenberg's company will even teach you how to have a saferoom ready -- to shelter air, water and power from a bio-chemical attack. It should have space for supplies, 4-feet per person or pet, and a cubic meter of air per person per hour.

"You want to be able to immediately go into the sealed room. put the last pieces of plastic in place and take a towel soaked in sodium bicarbonate and put it under the door."

Another thing to remember -- it may be days or more before the government can respond to help you. The Daniels family is prepared.

"We would be able to subsist for several months without government assistance," says David Daniels.

The family hopes they'll never need their emergency supplies. But experts say just being prepared provides peace of mind.

"You go in there and you say OK, we're a little better prepared. We can look at what may happen, and we just might be prepared for what might happen."

Supplies and plans like we mentioned in our story will prepare you for any disaster, including a hurricane.

What about a gas mask? Most people we talked to do not recommend them. A good dust mask can screen out a lot of undesirable particles in the air.

The NBC 6 Action Plan:

- Contact the Red Cross, your county emergency operations center, or some of the companies we mentioned for a list of survival supplies and procedures.

- Set aside time, shop for the items and get them ready.

- Have a family meeting to formulate a survival plan.

- Then practice it.

Emergency supplies recommended by Broward County Emergency Operations:

Bleach, towels, first aid kit, trashcan bags, duct tape, snack food, energy food bars, can opener, gallon of water per person per day for 7 days, handiwipes, toilet paper, disposable eating utensils, detergent for washing pots and pans, baby food, diapers, canned goods, batteries, flashlights, radio, work gloves, toothpaste, toothbrush, contact lenses, medication for at least 7 days, change of clothes, cash

Where To Go For More Help:

- American Red Cross: www.miamiredcross.org, www.redcross.org/di saster/beprepared; (305) 644-0097

- Broward County Emergency Operations: www.co.broward.fl.us/disas ter; (954) 831-3900

- Miami-Dade County Emergency Operations: www.co.miami-dade.fl.us/oem; (305) 468-5900

Companies:

- www.Iprepare.Com: sells disaster survival kits

- Homeland Protection Inc. Weston, Fla.: www.homelandprotection.org; (954) 384-8880

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Leap,

Reginald Laubin is an authority on Native American-styled bows. Amazon.com has a book that I think you'd be interested in:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806114673/qid=1005865525/sr=8- 3/ref=sr_8_3_3/104-3814578-7171153

Title: American Indian Archery

Another option is:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0943604214/ref=pd_sim_books/104 -3814578-7171153

Title: Making Indian Bows and Arrows, The Old Way

-- Anonymous, November 15, 2001

Cheers Deb - I'll check those out!

-- Anonymous, November 15, 2001

Leap,

You're welcome! :-)

-- Anonymous, November 16, 2001

Leap, David, who is from a tribe in Washington State, is one of our admins. He's sometimes quite busy with his tree nursery and he is also active in tribal affairs and promoting Native American culture. I'll drop him a note, see if he can help.

-- Anonymous, November 16, 2001

Cheers ol'

That might interest the missus to - she is just beginning her PhD looking at Western Representation of Native American and First Nation Canadian Sprituality!

:o)

-- Anonymous, November 17, 2001

I did send a note but he might be at a tribal do.

-- Anonymous, November 18, 2001

Just bought the lofty wiseman SAS survaval "flip book" - tis good stuff (excellent 'stocking filler') :o)

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

"$£$ my spelling is bad today :o(

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Well, since you've just risen fromt the dead, I'm surprised you can write at all. You bin looking for Osama or what?

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Hiya Git :o)

Well I'm sure my bankmanager would appreciate the folding stuff, but I doubt he is even in afghanistan anymore....and I still think he is very little danger - four aircraft hi-jacked and he aims 2 at WTC...fair enough but why the pentagon as well? Everyone knows the hi- spec stuff is below ground! Any 'terrorist' (and I use the word advisedly after what both of our countries have got up to since 1939) with half a brain would have nose-dived 3-mile-island (or eqivalent).

So unless he bucks his ideas up, he is probably history anyway (beyond small skirmishes at-least). I'd be more concerned wity who will do what when he "becomes one with a 7.62" - the only thing more dangerous than a martyr is a dictator.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

He was after the symbolism seems to be the consensus. It makes more sense if you take into account the fact that he has some sort of business degree, I forget which. It's the old "military-industrial complex" thing that he wants to destroy. He also wanted to cripple the economy, with so many financial firms being in the WTC, and he's damn near succeeded.

The third plane (which went into the ground in Pennsylvania) was, I believe, meant for the Capitol to take out all the politicians (which some people think might not have been a bad idea), and there is thought in some quarters that there was a fourth plane, possibly held up by late takeoff and then thwarted by the order to ground all flights, and it was to go into the White House. All symbolic, all messages to the Arab world. It's difficult to get inside the mind of a madman; all we can do is remember, 'e don't fink like us, do 'e?

I've compared bin Laden to Ted Bundy, the handsome, well-off young law student who slaughtered a large number of young women. It's not an entirely accurate comparison, but it helps. Who the hell knows what goes on in the minds of these socio- and psychopaths? We're still trying to figure out Hitler, Idi Amin and Pol Pot. We start out by judging them by our own (relatively) civilized standards and it just won't work.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

Hiya Git,

I know what you mean about the psycho bit, but I am not so sure about classifying the over laden bin in that way. He has an agenda that is no more 'mad' than the crusades or the indian-wars (to quote 2 particularly dark events in both our countries histories) - his goal is the destruction (allegedly) of the western capitalist globalised empire (whose 'capital' is currently the USA) which is running counter to his (albeit extreme) version of Islam.

I can also understand the resultant validity (from his point of view) of the WTC, however.....making Three-mile-island a glowing pile of radioactive ashes would be far more effective than knowing the pentagon wall down.

Tactically he has too great a focus to offer a massive threat (unless he learns from his mistake - something genuine psycho's hardly ever do).....for now - and no I dont think the anthrax is nessecarily his doing.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

The third plane (which went into the ground in Pennsylvania) was, I believe, meant for the Capitol to take out all the politicians (which some people think might not have been a bad idea), and there is thought in some quarters that there was a fourth plane, possibly held up by late takeoff and then thwarted by the order to ground all flights, and it was to go into the White House

Um, excuse me, but there were four planes. Two in the WTC, one in the Pentagon, and one in Pennsylvania.

There was something about other planes that were stopped by the grounding of all flights. Several grounded planes were found to have similar weapons on board after they were evacuated.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

Sorry, never was good with numbers, meant to say fourth and fifth.

Yes, a good capsule description of Osama's motives, Leap, but you still have to include the military-industrial complex because that is what keeps the West running and is such a visible and hated reminder of the decadent West as it runs counter to his perverted version of Islam. I can't accept any comparison of previous colonial misadventures indulged in by the West because neither we nor the enemy had access to bio or nuclear weapons at the time. In addition, there were no 24/7 news channels to spread propaganda from both sides. Hence, although the motive of the Crusades might be similar, Osama's battle is somewhat different. (The primary motive of the Indian Wars, by the way, was to take the land, not to impose a different religion on Native Americans.)

With bin Laden's top advisers knocked out, as seems to be the case at the moment, I don't see how he can function. Like any leader, he has blind spots which were filled in by experienced advisors. I understand his financial adviser has been killed, too, so he will have a hard time getting at his funds.

Apparently, the Afghans have now heard about the enormous reward for killing this man and are prepared to give it a shot--so to speak. Perhaps, despite his access to bio and nukes, he will be taken out by primitive means, as Spann was. What an irony!

I have never believed the anthrax letters were sent by foreigners. They may have been involved but I think an American directed the whoel deal. I shall be enormously surprised if it turns out they were connected to bin Laden.

Of course, this is all speculation from reading various news reports and a dangerous knowledge of psychology.

-- Anonymous, December 05, 2001

I agree with the MI complex point (not overly fond of it myself :o) ) but you are a little mistaken over the indian-wars. The US DID use bio-weapons (the infamous 'cholera blankets') and it was a 'religious war' in that in many NAI nations, religion was insperable from everyday life (no black/white sacred and profane distinctions) and in that we (the US and UK of the time) wanted to impose an alternative way of life on them it was a 'religious' war (especially considering the complicity of many 'christian' churches in the genocide that followed).

Oooops - soap box time...sorry

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

But the major and primary motive for the Indian Wars was land, not the imposition of another religion--that was secondary, but nevertheless devastating and wrong. I admit little knowledge of the cholera blankets incident and whether or not it was widespread, only that it happened, so cannot speak with any authority on the subject.

Gawd, where is David when we need him? I hope he's all right.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

I meant to add that we were talking about motivation and you must admit that there is a difference between those who fight for land and those who fight for a particular brand of religion. Although I have no studies to support my hypothesis, I would venture a guess that the latter are far more "motivated."

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Although Hitler's little bunch, being motivated by a mixture of land aquisition and revenge for versailles (sp?!) was rather ...erm...motivated :o)

Its a much of a muchness really, and all comes down to power anyway.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Naughty, naughty--your comparison was between the Indian Wars and colonial adventures and bin Laden's bunch! Now you bring in Hitler! Well, we could also bring in Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Cortez, the Romans, the Vikings, Atilla the Hun, Vlad the Impaler, the subjugation of the Maoris and Native Australians, on and on, ad infinitum. But let's not.

The salient issue is bin Laden doesn't like the West and wants to destroy us.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Not cholera blankets - smallpox. From what I have read, TPTB may or may not have understood at that time that smallpox could be spread that way.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

I think it may be unfair to stretch to "wants to destroy us". The impression I got was that he wants to remove Western Imperialism's influence over moslem countries. What he hates (apparently) is the reach of "the West" and its involvement (many would say interference) in other countries policies. Of course this may be a prelude to world domination, just like the west has done.....

A lot of people are fed up with the Patronising and often Colonial policies of "the West" and want such to "butt out" (and this includes many "at home"). Can't say I blame them on that - the thought of burueacrats, accountants and lawyers running countries / empires fills me with as much dread as them being run by religious zealots and military dictatorships.

I suppose the West has pushed the rest as far as they are willing to go, and some are now pushing back - when politics collide the only choices are capitulation (many have taken over the mantle of "benevolent" fascist commercial imperialism) or conflict.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

If you could show me a report from a respected media source which says bin laden only "wants to remove Western Imperialism's influence over moslem countries", I'd very much like to see it. In contrast:

Telegraph article

In the video, bin Laden says: "The Twin Towers were legitimate targets, they were supporting US economic power. These events were great by all measurement. What was destroyed were not only the towers, but the towers of morale in that country." . . .

He says: "The towers were supposed to be filled with supporters of the economical powers of the United States who are abusing the world. Those who talk about civilians should change their stand and reconsider their position. We are treating them like they treated us."

[From an al Jazeera interview.]

I'm sure I could dredge up more explicit quotes, but I just don't have the time. We seem to have a basic philosophical difference about bin Laden's behavior; most people in this country believe that bin Laden would take any chance to wipe us out and would have used a nuclear weapon if he had had it on September 11. It's one of those situations where neither one of us will change the other's mind, so we may as well save the time and agree to differ.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

guess so :o(

or perhaps his scale is simply increasing..."desperate times call for desperate measures" and all.....!

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

Amazing coincidence, this just referenced at Lucianne:

The Real Roots of Terrorism

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001

P.S. This thread is far too long and has drifted considerably off-topic; please make use of the link above for any comments. This thread is now closed.

-- Anonymous, December 06, 2001