The President and others, even Billy Ghrahm refered to getting back at the people who did this. I don't see what good that will do? My main thought is why do they hate us, what have we done to influence this hate, what is it that they want. What are we keeping from them. Are we really responsible for keeping them from their freedom? As Osmama bin Laden seems to think? I was listening to the radio and a fellow who had interviewed Osmama bin Laden several years back came on. This Osmama does not sound like an evil man to me, but one who is devoted to a cause and the liberation of a people. ??????????????

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Answers

I saw part of a PBS Frontline special on Osama Bin Ladin last night, he said that America was responsible for the constant oppression of Muslims worldwide, especially our support of Israel and the existence of the Israeli state in the land of Palestine.

He believes that because of this, a religious war against us is called for by all devout and true Muslims, and Americans are to be killed on sight where ever they are.

I can understand his reasoning about the oppression, especially in light of America's support of Israeli statehood, but I do not approve of his methods at rectifying it.

As Martin Luther King taught during the black's struggle for freedom from oppression in our country, there are non violent methods of civil disobedience that work to change things in society, unfortunately, Osama Bin Ladin does not think the same as M.L.K.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Annie, Thanks, I wish that I had caught that PBS special, I will watch to see if they are going to air it again. It's all pretty complicated for my simple mind! but I feel a need to try to understand this. It just freaks me out that everyone seems to just want to jump in and get back at the people who did this. First I need to know ,are they doing it from greed or are they doing it because we are limiting their rights? I sure wouldn't feel good about fighting someone who is just standing up for their own rights. I agree that what they did is wrong, but we have killed for our liberty also. I sure wish that everyone could just sit down and come to some kind of compromise. Ha! Guess I am living in a dream world. My only hope then is that the earth changes take over and recue man from his own distruction. Come on EArth Changes!

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

I believe there is a lesson here and that is no particular group owns the evil label. It is quite obvious what the long term result of fighting terror with terror is. Look around the world. Anyone remember Hiroshima or Nagasaki. These were not exactly military targets void of civilians. I recall the pictures of little girls running with there skin peeled from their bodies after we napalmed 'military' targets in Viet Nam. So, yes I do think we should take out whoever did this terrible thing and at the same time take a long look in the mirror and realize how many of our actions as a nation have been quite comparable to this event. Of course we were 'right' weren't we ? Introspection seems in short supply.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Maybe its a way controling your people. Find someone to hate is a binding agent. Hitler rallied his nation by creating a hatred for Jews. Russia became a super power by hating capitalism. Conservatives became united by hating Clinton! On and on. Bin Laden may want a great and powerful Arab state and he uses the hatred of America to unite his people??? I know one thing. We stopped arguing among ourselves right now haven't we? Who have we decided to hate?...kirk

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Wait a minute Kirk, I am conservative and I certainly don't hate Clinton. I don't like a LOT of things he has done or the way he did them but I don't hate the man. Anyone that hates a person rather than the action needs to rethink some things. I know there are people like that - we all know that. Please don't be guilty of what so many people tend to do by making blanket statements like that when it's not true.

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Ah I don't think Kirk meant it that a way Terry, I think he was just trying to help me see. Kirk aint that kind of guy.

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Terry: I stand corrected!! My apologies. I only meant that hate is used as a powerful tool to rally and bind groups of people...Much Love.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

from Marrianne's website:

ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE Dear Friends, In my book HEALING THE SOUL OF AMERICA, I wrote about an experience I had in a hotel lobby in New Delhi during the mid l990's. It resonates deeply for me today. An Egyptian diplomat, whom I met while taking a break from leading a spiritual pilgrimage to India, came up to me and gently, kindly said these words:

"I do not mean this as a criticism of the United States. I know the Americans are good men and women. But please try to make them understand: many people in my part of the world feel that they have been forced to try to keep up with you, in a race that we do not really care to run. Your technology is amazing, but America seems spiritually polluted to many of us. Your ways are not our ways, and while we were tempted for a while to think that your ways should be our ways, we do not think that anymore.

This is the problem, Ms. Williamson, and there will be terrible consequences in the world if America does not come to understand this. Islamic terrorists have had such success- if you can call their campaigns a success -- because they have been able to persuade millions of peasants that America is bad. It is not too difficult to do, Ms. Williamson. All they have to do is describe the television programs you export to this part of the world, and millions of people are very horrified. America often comes across to us as very arrogant and uncaring.

Your government does not understand. They do not see how the people feel. We need the American people to understand. Perhaps you will bring more Americans to our part of the world. If they come to understand us, then they will respect us. We would feel that respect, and then I don't think that the terrorists would have such success. This is not a job the CIA can do. It is only a job which people can do."

His words have rung in my ears over the last few days, and I thought that perhaps they would ring in yours. They reveal important information, which I hope we all take to heart.

Peace and love to all of you,

Marianne Williamson

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Earth Mama thanks for that. In todays paper there is a picture of Activists of Pakistan holding up a banner that says. AMERICANS, THINK! WHY YOU ARE HATED ALL OVER THE WORLD. I wish that I could talk with them, I wish that they could visit me on my homestead, I wish that I could visit them on theirs. Are we what they think we are? Are they what we think they are?

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Thank you for your tender heart, Tren, you are a distinct blessing in our lives.

I think your point is excellent.....and I believe you're right....people are people the world over.....I believe we are born in love, and that is our true home. That "those people" as well as our people are for the most part good and loving and peaceful. However, our government is once again making it appear to the contrary,and I guess it ,and the media, has already convinced the masses of Americans (if we are to believe the polls) that we can be driven to what we feel is justifiable revenge, exactly the same way our 'enemies' do.

I fail to see how revenge can ever lead to anything positive, ever. There can be no end to it; the rhetoric coming from the White House is the typical testosterone-driven stuff we have heard from the Holy Land and Ireland, forever, and still it goes on and on and on. Revenge by its very definition cannot have an end, a resolution. It creates nothing but more hatred and animosity, and we all become the thing we hate.

God help us all.....to return to love.......

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Well, I hate Kirk, for one....

Just JOKING!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL~

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

EarthMama, I can't find the Marianne Williamson website, could you give me the link?

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Be happy to, Tren.....Marianne Williamson

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

I think it's a very good idea for our people to maybe look at what we've done to make these people so mad. I've done a bit of reading and I'm embarrassed to admit I was not more aware of our behavior on the world front. People don't do this kind of thing for no reason. I'm not saying I agree with their actions, I just see where they might be coming from.

It seems to me that we Americans are headed down the wrong road with going to war. Aren't we just doing the same thing they are (responding to brutality and injustice)?

EM, I saw your response about a peaceful solution over at CS. I followed you with a similar response. I know this viewpoint isn't popular at this time but someone has to start saying something. This war is going to lead to more than we've bargained for. I have to wonder if everyone will be so enthusiastic when this war stretches into months and years? Nope, people will tire of it and then clamor to get our boys out of there. Yes, it will be a whole different story once this affects families on a larger scale across this nation.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Tren, you mentioned you'd like to talk with all those people 'over there'. Got me thinking that maybe there are some English speaking people living beyond the sidewalks 'over there'. Considering there probably aren't a lot of sidewalks, it should be easy. Just someone with a computer. Hmmmm how to connect. Any ideas? I met a few people from India on a spiritual chat room and was again amazed at how different our existences were and yet how alike we were as humans.

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

JZ, I am going to bed now holding your thought in my mind. Is there a way?

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

JZ, this morning while surfing the web I stumbled across the Jeff Rense Program, and went to his archieved shows. The one I picked to listen to was an interview with Dr.William Tode, titled Places in our hearts and minds. He has a book out called Science and human transformation. They talked about how our belief system creates our reality and how what we think and feel and believe can affect the whole world. This has only reinforced the thoughts and feelings in me that I should feel love for these people, not hate. And perhaps in some small way this love will reach them.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Tren... you must not have gotten my e-mail... but I had written how much I appreciated your views on the thoughts of NOT going to war...

I don't know the ask in this mess of the WTC and Pentagon... I just know that if we the people desire war for revenge... then we will get it...

however, if we hold the world in loving white light of love and peace... this could come to a peaceful solution... but can the white light win over this hate and fear that has permatated our land...

can enough of us so called "over ride" this wave of revenge...

I had an interesting discussion Saturday night on a chat that I frequent on Saturday nights... I have known this group for 2 years now... and have discussed many things... however, last Saturday night the call for war and retatilation was so strong that I had to leave as they didn't want to hear of other solutions... Bibical verses were flung at me... and what not... that I realized then... that I was alone in offering this white light of peace...

course I have one son in the National Guards at present, the other is 19, and a daughter about 18... if women would be drafted... I could see 3 of my kids serving in a worthless battle... like the disgrace of Vietnam... in which my brother fought for 15 months... only to serve his country proudly there and come home to ridicule in the USA...

personally bloodshed doesn't solve much...seems more blood is shed in the name of religion than any other way... odd, doesn't religion talk peace??? and loving your brother???

I know this is off course of your topic here... sorry

but I for want to keep smudging and praying (visualizing) white light and love for our country and world... any one care to join???

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

I'm with you Yarrow! I know you were speaking more to Tren, but I have felt much the same way when visiting some of the boards I frequent. I can't quite figure out how we'll come out ahead by taking revenge either. I have to admit my first impulses were to make someone pay, but at what expense? There's nothing left to bomb and we'd make an already suffering people suffer more not to mention our own losses. Then I thought well what if we all put out our energies for justice. Well now that I've become more informed through some study and reading, I'm not sure that the our citizens would be ready to accept true justice. It seems to me that our government has some blame in the cause of our problems. So I see healing and a true effort to make this a win/win situation as our best solution. I would like to see our nation not only as a symbol of freedom around the world but also a beacon of impeccability and truth.

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

YES..................when people join together in agreement, MIRACLES can happen. Can not a group of us come into agreement about love and peace and join together our minds in agreement toward that goal?? Don't isolate from the hate filled groups. Holding love in you minds and hearts, start laying some groundwork for finding commonalities. Find small points of agreement and work on those. john has written about fear and hate being the absence of love. The grief of this situation is that hate is helpful when you are trying to cover up the pain. This is a PAINFUL situation and we need to be willing to feel the pain of it and then move on in love to find the points of light. Education is so important. Most people are full of ignorance about this event and how it could possibly have happened. They are in pain and full of fear. (just some rambling thoughts of someone grasping for hope!!!)

-- Anonymous, September 19, 2001

Yarrow, I don't know if you realized that I was out of town. Wish I'd been there with you on chat, I was afraid that was way the general sentiments were going. I'm in agreement with you! Hugs to you! Look for an email from me!

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

It seems like we are not even going to have a chance to convey our feelings about this war, we are not being consulted , we do not get to vote, we are just being thrust forward into war by the panic of the masses.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2001

Sadly enough Trendle... the consulting of those of us that sends our sons and daughters is very rare...

I have said repeatdly in this situation... if the elected officials would send their sons and daughters... and ON THE FRONT LINES ... then it would not upset me so much... however, it never works that way...

and reading the European press through BBC, we (Americans) might be on more and more on our own in the deal...seems other countries aren't as gung ho as us... and understandably...

link

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

I had to make the URL into a link, otherwise it didn't work right.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

I don't believe the president when he says that the reason that they hate us is because they hate our freedom. No , I think to them, we are the evil, just as we call them the evil. JZ, thats what you said too isnt it. I believe that the evil that we are experiancing is the evil that we created.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001

Yarrow, you and I ARE on the same wave lenth, as I was watching the presidents speech last night and watching them all, all starched up there, I thought, How would they feel if they were to go over and fight? How would they feel about it then? My MOm called me to talk about what a good speech the president gave and how we should all stand behind him. WEll, I KNOW better then to get into a politcal, or spiritual argument with my Mom, sometimes I see that I just have to let her think what she thinks because when I go putting different angles on things it just makes her anxious. So I let it go and found a point that we could agree on and that is that it is all in Gods hands.

I sure don't understand why the ones that could have stood up for peace, and are close to the presedent, Billy Ghram, the Dalai Lama, why didn't they take a bigger stand for the peace and love that they are soppose to represent.

-- Anonymous, September 21, 2001