This was kind of touched on in the watch your tv's thread but I am curious...will this terrorist attack cause any of you to make any lifestyle changes? I don't mean short-term like giving blood and flying your flag (although these are important, too). I mean in the long run. Will you give up flying? Leave the big city (if you're there?) Plant a bigger garden next year & increase your home storage?

As I was driving Tuesday morning, listening to all the horrible news on the radio, I was shocked at how easily it was to bring our country to a halt (if only briefly.) It was like a small-scale version of what was anticipated for Y2K. Lines to buy gas, more people buying guns, etc. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the White House had been destroyed? If more major cities had been hit (Chicago, LA, etc.. but that sounds like another thread!!)

Anyway, once I could think of more practical matters, I realized my car was nearly on E, no cash (if ATM's were to go down) and I have only about 3 weeks' food supply in the house. I have seen many things in my own life I need to work on...food storage being a big one. Anybody else?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Answers

No, Cass, I won't allow THIS disaster to make any changes in my life. I have a plan (though somewhat nebulous as to details!) that I will still follow, until I change my mind again that is. :-/ If there were further attacks, or if this leads to war, I might change my mind. My thoughts run to my family -- there is the urge to circle the wagons, so to speak.

I WILL NOT allow this to let hatred gain a hold on my spirit, either.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

My family could live a couple of weeks with the food we keep stocked in our pantry, and freezer. I also keep a supply of cash that is available to me (NOT in my home or bank) to keep me afloat a couple of months of bills, groceries and so on. Cars are never allowed to be less than 1/2 a tank of gas. Toilet facilities are easy to fix up (five gallon bucket lined with trash bag, wood ashes - dirt). Keep a "bug out" kit in my vehicles, in case we have to evacuate our home very quickly. A 72 hour kit, most emergencies demanding evacuation would be solved within that time.

Where I hurt is lack of water storage, have no generator (bye bye freezer and range). Water is bulky to store, yet is TOTALLY necessary for cooking, cleaning and drinking. I'd love to drive a well in my backyard; water table reportedly is less than 15' deep, definitely doable.

Electricity is tough though. If you are hot, open the windows, dress accordingly. To cook, camping stoves, barbeque pit. But nothing to keep food cold or frozen long term? Start canning meat and produce, or drying it if possible, but no freezer / refrigerator is not something very easy. And my region (deep south Texas) isn't noted for cold spells either.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Even before Y2K, I was one of those "weird" people that always was prepared for anything, my grandparents lived through the Great Depression and taught their offspring well, and I have remembered all they told me over the years!

My dear uncle in the Army (lifer NCO in regular Army ) taught me the possible terrorist dangers to Americans years and years ago, and expounded of the many benefits at a homestead in the boonies at helping one survive most all world atrocities.

Our homestead is prepared to be completely self-sufficient in everything, water, food, fuel, generator power, transportation, and self defense, for a minimum of 6 months.

Every household in America should be prepared to be completely self- sufficient for at least 2 weeks, even apartment dwellers can acomplish that with some creative thinking!!! This would greatly lessen the "panic" effect that Tuesday's tragedy created, especially the gas panic price effect.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Yes, this event has caused a profound change in my life. I vow to watch the news less and pay more attention to my world and concern myself with affecting those things which I have some control over.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

I want to get and learn how to use a handgun .

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Well Cass I started trying to get some sort of relationship back with my sister and brothers. They are very conservative and I'm not so we haven't gotten along at all! I been calling and I think I've made some progress with my sister but my brothers may be hopeless. Thats one thing to clean up some familly conflicts.

I have a bit of a road rage problem that I'm trying to do something about also. I think maybe if I focus on all the good drivers and try to appriciate them it my help. What I do is stay furious when I see all the rotten ones.

What I really plan to start doing is noticing the beauty of people more. Tell people when they do a nice job or notice if someone has a nice smile. You know like take more chances by opening my mouth.

I figure if I notice and communicate the positive and beautiful things in life maybe in a small way it may spread. Oh and the hardest is to apoligize when I'm wrong. How many people do that?

Anyway thats my plan. Personal changes. Pollyannish as hell aren't I?....Kirk....

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Hey Trennie: Post a picture when you start packin iron cause I wanna see!!!!!!...Ha Ha ....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

David and I try to always stay as stocked as possible. It is just part of our lifestyle to grow in the summer, can for the winter. Butcher in the fall so there is meat. I don't think there will be changes there.

Spiritually, yes maybe. I feel very isolated because I am a pacifist. We live in a small community that is crying for blood, from the schools, to the churches, to the parking lot at the grocery store (where a truck was parked yesterday that said "death to all ragheads"). I am terribly saddened by this. I can't talk to my neighbors as their views are so different from my own. I'm looking for a Quaker church where I can expose my children to views more similar to my own. Perhaps the fact that my husband is not an American, I am very sensitive to all of this hatred.

The school had a memorial service around the flagpole yesterday. The purpose seemed to be more to prepare the children for war than to mourn the loss of our countrymen. I am so saddened.

Kim

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

"Spiritually, yes maybe. I feel very isolated because I am a pacifist." Kim

Hi Kim,

To help me unerstand what you believe as a pacifist could you explain what that means to you? Are you simply against killing or is it more than that such as any violence? One question I have is, are you against the police using force or guns when protecting citizens or just killing associated with the military? Please understand, I don't want to cause an argument here, just wanting to understand because I don't personally know any pacifists so you are the one I gets my questions :-).

Also, as a pacifist, what recommendations do you have for handling this situation we have now? Do you believe we don't go after these groups but that it is okay for us to defend ourselves here within our own borders or what?

Thanks for listening.

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Wow! I really do have better grammar and spelling skills than are reflected above! LOL!!

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Hi Terry,

Gosh those are all good questions (and don't worry about the grammer, I am generally appauled when I read my posts! I guess my fingers are faster than my brain, scary thought!!).

As for being a pacifist, I bet there are as many different kinds of pacifists as there are christians (just for an example). My beliefs certainly wouldn't apply to all pacifists, but since you have asked.....

I believe in non-violent conflict resolution. Leaders who I respect include M. L. King, Ghandi, the Dali Lama and Jesus Christ. I believe that war is morally wrong and ineffective. As for the current conflict, I believe that negotiation will gain us much more in the Middle East and eventually result in a trial and conviction in a civilized court of law. The fear that we will kill innocent civilians, whose only crime was their place of birth causes me great pain.

As for my family, I don't know how I would react to a direct attack. I have spent several very scary nights when the KKK threatened to burn me out of my house after I removed some of their literature from a local bulletin board. I had a very intense discussion with one of their klansmen, who threatened me repeatedly. He had no idea how to respond to a woman whose only defense were non-violent priciples. I learned much from that interaction.

I suppose I haven't answered all of your questions. Truth is of course I don't have all of the answers. None of us do.

In Peace, Kim

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

Kim I gotta tell you I'm just dying to here about your KKK experience!!! I've heard you mention that before somewhere. Sometime at your convience would you tell us that story?....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 16, 2001

Here'another essay which expresses pretty much how I feel; we must not let others define for us what it means to be a patriot!!

Why I Will Not Rally Around The President

by Robert Jensen

We are told that in this time of crisis, all good Americans should rally around the president and the flag.

I will rally, but not around a leader calling for war or a symbol of nationalism.

It is easy to understand the emotion behind the chanting of "USA, USA." But I will not chant.

In this time of crisis, I will rally around policies that seek peace and security, for all people everywhere. And instead of chanting, I will speak quietly about the grief we all feel, and loudly about the need to resist our leaders' plans for global war.

Decent people agree that in this time of crisis, we cannot let the lines of color and culture, of language and religion, divide us. But we need to go another step, to understand that the lines dividing people based on nations are just as dangerous. We must also agree not to give in to the urge to value the lives of innocent Americans over the lives of innocent people in other countries.

For the past few days -- in person and on the phone, through email and on the radio -- I have been called "unpatriotic," condemned as a "traitor" and labeled "anti-American" because my writing has opposed the drive to war, the call for blood to avenge those who died in the terror attacks.

But I also have heard from many others who also are concerned that U.S. officials will take us into a war that will bring only more death, pain and grief, leaving us less secure. They want to speak out but fear being attacked for not being "good Americans."

This is a moment when we need the courage to say that being a good American does not mean supporting a war so violent and so indiscriminate that more innocent people will die.

That does not mean we renounce the ideals of freedom and justice so often associated with the United States; we should hold onto those ideals more fiercely than ever and put them into practice by resisting the rush to war.

We should honor the ideals of this country by saying, in as clear a voice as we can manage: Not in our name will the United States seek vengeance or go forward to kill.

It is important to read closely the joint resolution passed by Congress, which authorizes the president "to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on Sept. 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons."

That is not a resolution based on a quest for justice. It is an open- ended invitation to attack anyone U.S. leaders decide to target. And those leaders -- Dick Cheney and Colin Powell among them -- are some of the same people who during the Gulf War unleashed attacks not only on military targets but on civilians and the entire civilian infrastructure of Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people during and after the war. This resolution, and the statements from the Bush administration about an ongoing global war, suggest that what is coming will be even more frightening.

When we speak out against war in public, we will find support, but we also should expect hostility. We should expect the question posed by one of the people who wrote to condemn me: "Whose side are you on?"

The answers to that are simple:

I am on the side of the people -- no matter where they live -- who will suffer the violence, not the leaders -- no matter where they live -- who will plan it.

I am on the side of peace, not war.

I am on the side of justice, not vengeance.

And most important, I am on the side of hope, not despair.

We do not have the luxury of despair right now. There is too much at stake for too many people.

Robert Jensen is a professor of journalism at the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Earthmama: I must admit after desert storm I didn't feel to patriotic. When everyone was sooo proud I couldn't help but think about the 100,000+ people that were killed on the opposing side. I hope to God we don't do that again!!! The Afgan people are so beat-up they are hardly a threat to anyone....love ya.....Kirk

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Yes, there are people already calling people traitors if they don't blindly follow the leadership and support the "war effort". I plan to do what ever I can to get people to at least THINK. Thinking and asking questions is O.K. and very necessary. Justice and peace can be compatable.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

Well, um...I don't think I'll be doing much of anything different, except that my travel plans are pretty much shot to hell! It won't hurt me to stay put for a while, though!

We try to live fairly low on the food chain, so to speak, and with our previous y2k preps and general disposal toward self-sufficiency, I don't think there will be too much different...except maybe make room for friends for longer stays when they come out here to see us.

The most important thing for us is to keep our spirits up. I'm going to be very vigilant about finding ways to do that.

Re: upsurge in patriotism, etc. There are very compelling reasons why folks feel the way that they do. Just for me, personally, I'm going to defer discussion for now, 1) b/c I am trying to keep my spirits up, and the patriotism thing alternately works/doesn't work for me, so I'm not always clear on things (gee, it's been less than a week for me to get this worked out!) and 2)it's important for other folks to express their opinions freely (helps them work through their processes) but not necessarily mine. I don't want to step on anyone's feelings at this sensitive time, no matter what their position.

I am going to keep calm, keep my head down (in prayer often!) and go about my routines. And what Trennie said about getting outdoors! The best idea...getting exercise to blow off stress.

-- Anonymous, September 17, 2001

When I hear the National Anthem played or see the American flag I get a warm tender feeling in my heart. My Grandfathers loved this country who's soil they tilled, who's air they breathed, who's wars they fought. We have been more free here then the people in many other places on earth. We could chose what we became. We could make as much money or get as much education or be as successful as we desired. This was a land of hope, a land of promice, a land of dreams fullfilled. When I hear the National Anthem played I picture all the dear brave men who would do anything that they could to uphold this freedom to protect us and I see the dear sweet mothers who watched them go. I feel such a love because they were my Mothers and my Brothers. The firefighters who are cleaning up in New York City. They to me represent this brave American spirit.

Along with this freedom that we so cherished also came responsiblily. The ageless inner human battle of self control was tested. Often we have chosen to be greedy and selfish and maniplitive in our actions. It all started with the Indians. Then we looked for and found the forests , the minerals of the earth, the rivers, We used all this for our gain, not considering the rights of the taken. And now, I think that we should take stock of ourselves!

In the beginning we were fighting for freedoms, to be free of Great Britain, to be free of slavery. Somehow things have changed. The soldiers that I have known in my life time are not proud of the wars that they have fought, it seems that we are no longer fighting for freedom but are fighting some selfish greedy war of the leaders. And who pays for it! More of my brothers and more of my Mothers.

We must all make a personal dissision! Robert Jenson is right! " That does not mean, we renounce the ideals of freedom and justice so often associated with the U.S. We should hold onto those ideals more fiercely than ever and put them into pratice by resisting the rush to war."

When I see our President and others, proclaiming," We are going to get them for this, they are going to pay." when I see the ones who did this called Cowards, I have to wonder. Why did they do this? Why do they hate us? What have we become? Why should we seek vengeance like an angry child???? Let us gain knowlege and understanding and not consider ourselves nor our rights more important then the rights or life's of others.

We still have the right to chose what we become.

What will it be?

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

Back in the days of WW2, etc., there used to be a saying, "Loose lips sink ships," meaning that talking about things that the enemy could hear could lead to disastrous consequences for the war effort.

I can't help but wonder, knowing that anyone with a computer and modem could be reading anything at all on the internet, whether or not some of the innocent commentary shared by ordinary folk could be used for our foe's strategic planning.

I'm not talking about anyone at this forum. But maybe others.

Something to think about, I guess.

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

sheepish.......I have thought deeply about what you said and have decided to not even discuss my feelings about our "war" anymore. (I came to that decision before this thread by the way) I feel like the best thing that I can do is just pray and prepare to do the best I can to support my extended family by strengthening my homestead. I would not want these forum debates to make an enemy feel safer than he already feels by showing division in the country. The few little quiet voices of peace are certainly not going to be heard right now in any event. I appreciated you attempt to lighten the mood by the way. We are certainly going to need a big bunch of that for a while.

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

Diane, once again we seem to be on the same wave-length!

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

Sheepish, Diane,I absolutely completly do not get it. If I am against going to war how does that in anyway affect what any reading terrorist might do? I'm not going to hide my head under a rock!

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

commondreams.org/views01/0917-01.htm

Now IS the time to speak for peace

by Robert Jensen and Rahul Mahajan

The Bush administration has stolen from us the time to grieve.

Americans, and people all over the world, should have had time to grieve for the victims of last week's attacks. But the politicians have made it clear they want war -- on anyone, at any price, with seemingly no thought about the consequences -- and we have no choice but to begin speaking out and organizing as we grieve.

Those who speak against war face hostility from many Americans -- including even some in the peace movement -- who say, "Now is not the time to talk politics; the country needs to heal."

As one person put it in an email to us, "Sometimes to hold our tongues is far better than to voice our opinions."

But now IS the time to talk politics, before it is too late.

From the first day of this tragedy, the leadership of this country -- amplified by the hawkish tone of most of the media coverage -- has made it clear they see an opening to ram through a military "solution" to the terrorism problem. They seem to believe this strategy will further consolidate U.S. power, especially in the Middle East.

Their claim to be acting to protect Americans rings hollow. Will Americans be safer if the U.S. unleashes its own "holy war" against -- against whom? where? ending when?

The people calling the shots would prefer that citizens argue about whether we should seek vengeance or not. But the politicians' goal is not mere vengeance; these are not the days when nations go to war to settle a grudge.

It is time to face some difficult truths: The war being planned is not about the emotions of citizens and their leaders spinning out of control. Yes, people are angry, and many are hungry for revenge. But that is merely a cover for the politicians.

Like all wars involving great powers, this is a war about geopolitical strategy. It is a war that aims to extend the dominance of the United States.

A lesson from the Gulf War is crucial: The United States said it wanted Iraq out of Kuwait, but U.S. officials blocked any possibility of a diplomatic solution to the crisis caused by Iraq's illegal invasion. The first Bush administration wanted a war, and it got one. And that war gave the United States even greater dominance over the Middle East.

Now the current Bush administration says it wants Osama bin Laden. No doubt everyone would like to see bin Laden out of commission. But we fear that the administration is after something far beyond that. Remember that the talk in Washington is not just of nabbing bin Laden; it's about "rooting out" his terror networks and waging a global "war on terrorism." In other words, an unending counterinsurgency against any part of the Islamic world that does not accept U.S. supremacy.

Ponder that: An indefinite war waged against an entire culture.

The history of empires -- and make no mistake, we must understand the United States as an empire, though with a different method of control than the empires of old -- suggests that the drive to greater power and dominance is never satisfied.

But the other lesson of history is that empires eventually take on more than they can handle. There is a recklessness in the air; officials talk openly about going after "high-value targets," such as capital cities, in countries that may "harbor" terrorists.

The first effect of any such attack, other than killing massive numbers of innocent civilians, will be to multiply tenfold the number of people in the Islamic world willing to die to wreak havoc on the United States. If fewer than two dozen people, supported by a few hundred more, could carry off last week's attacks, what will happen when we arouse the anger of 1 billion people by a blatantly unjust and destructive "retaliation?"

Ordinary people, feeling the danger, are flocking to peace demonstrations in unexpected numbers. But without organization, those efforts will die down as people attempt to return to their normal lives -- while we enter a cold new world of ongoing fear, hatred, and war.

Our government is starting down the road to potential disaster. The time to act is now.

Robert Jensen is a professor of journalism at the University of Texas. Rahul Mahajan serves on the National Board of Peace Action. Both are members of the Nowar Collective (www.nowarcollective.com). They can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu.

------------------------- Robert Jensen School of Journalism University of Texas Austin, TX 78712 rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu office: (512) 471-1990 fax: (512) 471-7979 http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/home.htm

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

The terrorists, I think, are fanatical enough that they are going to do what they do regardless of what they read. However I would like those innocents abroad that are doomed because of the inevitable errors that will follow our path of unguided retribution, to know that every action taken by our government is not supported by all of the people of this country. The other message that I feel is important is that we have the freedom (so far) to state that we disagree with the path the government is about to take. I am quite certain that the Viet Nam war ended because people exercised freedom of speech. Yet so many people feel they were being unpatriotic by disagreeing with our government. Seems to me the government or those who try to take away our freedom of speech are the unpatriotic ones. How can someone be faulted for exercising the very freedom we are supposed to be fighting to preserve. confuses me. peace jz

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

It seems to me that were we to curb our speech, we are letting the "enemies" win yet again. This is apparently what they want, to completey disturb our way of life, our freedoms. We love this country because it at least attempts to demonstrate the ideals of a free society, and even though its clear this comes with a price, there is no way I am going to stop expressing myself while there is still work to be done.

"Your silence will not protect you" Audre Lorde

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

It seems to me that since these extremists secretly live and work in our modern western culture, in countries all over the world, that they are well versed in how we live, how we discuss and disagree, and still stay strong. I really doubt our little ramblings could possibly be a security risk of any kind, telling them anything either in information or attitude that they dont already know. It was an interesting point to ponder for awhile though.

Peace....

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

I guess I think that in the long run it just doesn't matter what I think. I just talked to my mother-in-law who is sure we must be just not getting the full picture because we are just listening to the news on NPR. Seems that Dan Rather almost broke down this evening talking about how much "they" hated us. jz..........how do we tell the rest of the world we don't all agree with this picture??? I have to disagree about Viet Nam. We stopped the war because we were losing. I probably sound like an absolute fruitcake but if hanging me from a cross would stop this madness I would do it. I want this to go away for my children and grandchildren, my country and my world. It is just way too much to comprehend..........all this hate.

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

Oh. Well I was talking more about those folks who advertise where they have their weapons hidden and their money buried I guess. Or how to build a bomb or how to make a virus, etc.

Or how to use double coupons...

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001

No man Sheepish, it's using triple coupon that they shouldn't share! Ha,

-- Anonymous, September 18, 2001