I got this from a friend, Fred Miller. I am just posting it for "food for thought." Frankly, I am not knowledgable in this topic. It is HIS answer to another man writing him from a church in Australia.

BEGIN LETTER:

Friends This question about recent events relating to the book of Revelation comes from near New Castle in NSW, Australia, where I have held two revival meetings. You may find an interest in the question as well as the answer. Dear Fred, My name is Tim Yates and I am the current minister of the Charlestown Church of Christ in Newcastle, Australia. Some years ago you visited Australia and spoke at the church, although I obviously wasn't here at that time. Since the unbelievable tragedies in New York and Washington, most of our people are asking what significance this may have as it relates to end times. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this that I might pass on to the members here. Most of them are quite familiar with your works, particularly A Panorama of the Gospel Age, as am I. Any thoughts you might have that can be passed on to the congregation would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to be in prayer for the victims of this devastation. In His Grace, Tim Yates Dear Tim I held two meetings in Charlestown separated by several years. One during the tenure of Darryl Krause and the other which was greatly blessed by Peter Rama Rau as your incredibly efficient minister. As most of the brethren who heard me will remember, and you if you have read my book, that I predicted the turn around from Atheism in the USSR and a return to faith in God (if not to the Church of Christ although the victory seems evident for the church of Christ) in Russia. The beginning of that fulfillment came in Sept-Oct 1991. For as long as that prediction was ongoing I had also predicted the near at hand dissolution of the Papal political institution or the Vatican State. A little over a year ago I suggested that event would probably be complete within 20 years of the turn of the millennium or by 2021. At the same time I have for more than 30 years predicted as the third event to look for in our near future to be the overthrow of Muslim solidarity in excluding Christianity from their lands which have been darkened by the shadow of Islam for over 1300 years. Although the period has to be punctuated with violence it is not the violence that is primary. The prediction has been that Islamic nations will open to political and religious freedom. When a Methodist Mission can be opened across from the Kaaba in Saudi Arabia or evangelicals can freely give away Bibles in Islamabad or Kabul or Saudi, then you will know that the turn around will have happened. The end of this period, however, is associated with predictions in Revelation of a revolution of grand proportions and what I think may be an atomic exchange: i.e. the plague of hail. Read the following text and then see the better results following it. This verse seems to most historical interpreters to be imminent. Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were on the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19And the great city [vatican] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21And there fell on men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague of the hail was exceedingly great. The end of the sequence is not the end of the world but the ushering in of a period of revival which is unprecedented. I wrote the following a few years ago in an article commenting on Robert Fleming's astounding predictions in 1692. This is not premillenialism but what Daniel said concludes the period "Then shall the saints take the kingdom." Read on from my article:

"Further, incredibly he concluded the same thing that I had arrived at, that is, that the end of the Papacy will be associated with a resurgence of the power of the Christian religion. He so states on page 81 that coincident with the fall of the Papacy will be a parousia similar to the power of Christ in historical time at the destruction of Jerusalem or the end of paganism in 325. Fleming in 1692 concluded that the church of Christ will enjoy a period where opposition to the Gospel will be relatively slight and an unprecedented ingathering of the faithful. Many have heard the same conclusion that I had arrived at independently in the late 1960's. So let it be "even so come Lord Jesus." Thus the present resurgence of Islam is a part of the predicted scheme of the Union (in intent if not politically) of the 3 major enemies of Freedom in Christ, 1. Godless Secular Government raising its head first in Oct 1917 in the USSR and the beginning of the end of that power in Sept 1991 with a few adherents yet to fall. 2. The Papal system which returned to political power as a state in 1929 after a hiatus of almost 60 years from 1870 when the Papal States (held for over 1200 years) were lost. 3. All but a few historical interpreters from 1793 onward predicted a resurgence of Islam for the same period occupied by the two previous enemies. This one as well as the former are to be overthrown as enemies of political and religious freedom in this period and a surge of growth of the Christian religion is to be a consequence. But don't forget the Earthquake, and the Plague of hail which precede, but mark the end of the period of struggle which began in 1917 and is not over yet. Thus we have a mixed future of dark times followed by victory for the church of Christ (not to say exclusively for the Church of Christ) to look forward to. The immediate threats (those which will without doubt be worse for a time) are the last death throws of a reactionary Islam trying to hold on to a past way of life that can't survive even the women's movement much less the Christ on the throne. Monolithic Islam is in its lasts days. That does not mean there will be no atheists left, nor that there may not be a Bishop of Rome rattling around, nor that some will not still be making the Hadj to Mecca; but those forces will be greatly diminished and the growth of the church of Christ will be exponential. I believe the greatest growth of the church will be in Asia. Peter Rama Rau got me on a TV talk show while I was there in New Castle. To one of the questions they asked me then about the future I said, "the second coming of Christ is not imminent and the 21st century belongs to Asia." I believe the greatest growth for the church of Christ in the 21st Century will be in Asia particularly in Islamic countries and China. But look for some difficult times before the victory comes. The present distress with Islam is part of the end of this period, not the beginning. For what they are worth these are the opinions of one man. In Christ Fred P Miller ****************************************** Fred P Miller For Commentarys Majoring In Isaiah http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller 6784 Church St. Lithonia, GA 30058 Phone: 770 482 8596

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2001

Answers

Ohhhhhh....brother!!!

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2001

It would be interesting to see if "Brother Fred" has ever been wrong in his predictions.

According to the O.T. you only got one chance to be wrong....and then we all know what happened don't we.

In the words of Jesus...."It is an evil and adulteress generation that constanly looks for a sign."

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2001

By the way...have you noticed it wasn't "a sign" until a terroist act happened in America???

Terrorism has been going on for years in other countries. Where were the "end times" prophets???

Like I said in another thread....it is typical American arrogance to think God's timetable is some how dependant on the US.

-- Anonymous, September 12, 2001

I can tell you with certainty; Mr. Miller would NOT call himself a prophet, even though he uses the term "predict" in his thinking and writing. He also states that the Second Coming is NOT imminent, and from what I can tell, he does NOT expect it in the 21st century.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

WHich is worse (or better)? The one who says Jesus is coming on such & such a date, or the one who says Jesus cannot come until such & such a date? They're both doing the same thing. Jesus said, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Mt 24:36. Paul said, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night." I Thes 5:2. The whole point of the parables in Mt. 24:45-25:46 is that no one knows of His coming one way or another. Jesus makes other statements indicating that no one even has a clue as to when it might be, such as it will be as in the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37ff).

Who am I to believe? Mr. Miller, Hal, Jack, or Jesus?

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Sister Teresa:

All of the above from Mr. Miller is nothing more than pure specualtive HOGWASH which he offers, if you will note, not one ounce of evidence whatsoever to support or establish the truthfulness od not even ONE of his speculative assertions!

Now, I am sensitive to the fact that he is a friend but his above speculations do not come from nor are any of them supported by a single word fornm God. It is pure nonsense in every sense of the word.

I would be more interested in seeing him make some attempt to prove his theories from the word of God. ANd the only one's who could be persuaded to accept his above speculations are those who are completely ignorant of the word of God and who are more satisfied with speculations and empty assertions rather than facts and truth supported by clear and convincing evidence.

As to his "predictions". I am not interested in "predictions of men" but rather the PRECEPTS OF GOD. FOr I care not what man may predict or even if some of his predictions might turn out to be true (which Mr. Miller cannot really claim) but if his predictions conflict with the precepts of God then he is wrong and God is right. ANd on what basis does he claim to have any powers of "prediction of the future"?

ANd I agree with Brother Scott who quoted several passages which make it abundantly clear that no man will ever be able to "predict" the coming of Christ. For the precepts of God state unequivocally But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Mt 24:36. Even Christ, the Son does not know and cannot predict that day. ANd therefore just who do men like Mr. Miller think they are that they can predict what the precepts of God says no man knows, not even the very Son of GOd?

ANd he also fails to notice the fact that the Kindom of God has been established and CHrist is now reigning in that Kingdom on this earth. (Dan. 2:44,Isa. 62:1,2;MArk 1:4;MArk 9:1;Acts 1:8; Acts 1:1-4; Col. 1:13; Heb. 12:28; 1 COr. 15:22-26).

Christ is reigning now in his kingdom and we have received a Kingdom that "cannot be destroyed" and therefore will last forever and we have been "translated out of the kindom of darkness and in to the kingdom of God's dear Son". (Col. 1;13). ANd all of his above NONSENSE ignores this and a host on numerous facts which while I am at work I have little time to go into. But for now just read his words again and ask yourself at the end of every assertion the all important question "where is the proof"! ANd you will see that his is doing nothing more that spouting mere speculations which will one day do nothing more than gender strife. ANd I wonder just how long it will be berfore Mr. Miller decides to move gradually from making his pathetic predicts to claiming to be a "prophet of God" bring us yet more revelations"? Though he may be a friend I must issue the warning to beware of such men. For their doctrines are false to the core and damnable because they are opposed to the very doctrine of Christ who made it clear that we cannot know when Christ is coming and that the Kingdom of CHrist has been established and All Christians are in it and CHrist is now reigning over his subjects in that Kingdom.

Mr. Miller does however state, "For what they are worth these are the opinions of one man." Indeed this is all that they are. They are nothing more than the pure opinions and I will add unsupported assertions, and speculations one man. And the opinions of men are worthless in discussing the will, plans and scemes of our God. No opinion of any man is of any value when compared to the very word of God. God's word is what we must know and teach and our opinions should yeild to the doctrine of CHrist and never be taught as a matter of faith. WE propogate and defend the "faith once delivered to the saints" (Jude 3)and this man's opinion form no part of the faith once for all delivered to the saints and therefore has no value for the saints of God especially since his opinions, as we have show above, are in conflict with the truth of GOd's word. ANd worse his opinions are not only of little value. But in this case they are opposed to the teaching of God's word and therefore are not mere opinions but rather faflse doctrines that are in fact contrary to the doctrine of CHrist.

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold E. Lee Saffold

Your Brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

I am sorry I posted Mr. Miller's email.

He is not involved here to defend his own thoughts, though I will let him know what I have done in posting his thoughts in the forum for other folks to see.

I DO know this: Fred is a scholar of history, and of the Scriptures. He would not spout pure speculations w/ no basis in the Word. At times, we often hear folks say (as Roger Chambers often did) , "This is just my opinion," and then go on to take a stab at guessing how things might be. Even the Apostle Paul added his opinion this way in the scriptures: 1 Cor. 7:12

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her."

Just as Paul did, Fred basically stated at the end of his email,"This is just my opinion." He never implied he was talking for God.

There is a big differnce in saying, "This is what I think might happen," and saying "THUS SAYS THE LORD."

I am too busy to think through all this now, and am definately not an scholar of eschatology. As I said, I originally posted this thread simply as "food for thought." Maybe I shouldn't have started this thread w/o studying through things more on my own. I should let Fred speak for himself.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Teresa.....

I'm less concerned with your posting Mr. Miller's eschatological opinions..than I am with the fact you believe the Holy Spirit allowed Paul to include his opinions as part of the Scripture.

Paul may have thought he was writing his opinion...but I can assure you.....the Holy Spirit would not have allowed Paul's words to become part of Scripture if it was not indeed God breathed.

"ALL" Scripture is inspired by God.

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Danny, What DOES it mean when Paul says, "I, not the Lord"?

You KNOW I believe in the inerrency of the Scriptures. OBVIOUSLY, Paul didn't sneak his comment past the Holy Spirit!

-- Anonymous, September 13, 2001

Like I said Teresa.....Paul may have thought he was sharing his opinion.....but I can assure you....the Holy Spirit would have never allowed it to become a part of the Scriptures....unless it was in fact....the Lord's will.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Am I allowed to speak for myself in this forum?

Fred P Miller

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

Go for it, Fred!

-- Anonymous, September 14, 2001

From Neal Boortz's webpage at www.boortz.com:

(begin quote)
This morning a listener telefaxed me a copy of a calendar he had purchased. Every day you would turn a page in this calendar -- and every day there would be a new verse from the Bible for you to consider. The listener forgot to turn the page in his calendar Tuesday morning. He was too busy following the tragedy in New York. When he did open his calendar later in the day -- he was, to put it mildly, in for a shock. The scripture for September 11, 2001 was from The Book of Zephaniah, Chapter 1, Verses 15 and 16.

Read this .... and ponder:

15. That day is a day of wrath,
A day of trouble and distress,
A day of devastation and desolation,
A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
16. A day of trumpet and alarm
Against the fortified cities
And against the high towers.

The calendar is called "Daily Devotions from Godley Men -- Men's Devotional Bible." I understand it is available at Christian Book Stores.
(end quote)

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001

To the music for the "Twilight Zone"....."do.do.do.do.do.do.do.do.do.do"

-- Anonymous, September 15, 2001